I'm aware that we all refer to the WS as an alien, and often saying things regarding their marriage and relationship that are completely foggy, but I'm wondering if such thinking carried on to other aspects of life from your experience as well. Here's some of what I've noticed in my WW:

My wife of before A:
She wanted more kids and a big close family. Wanted to live somewhere for a long time, enjoying a large family home and a simple happy family life. She had no real material desires and was happy with everything she had. Although very good looking, was humble.

My wife during A (current):
Doesn't want any more children (fear of the genetic disease our son has is a big reason). Wants to travel the world, or at least get away from here! Wants to buy a new convertible, no wait, a roadster, no wait, now she wants a Nissan 350Z. Still very good looking, but enjoys the attention she gets and loves teasing (me and OM). She and the OM "have the exact same dreams and goals in life" (thats what she said back when she was deep in the A).

The reason I ask, is because in addition to her A, we are on a waiting list for a major organ transplant for our three year old son. Getting on this list seems to have had a profound effect on her emotional stability. I often wonder if this A caused her changes, or if the changes in her helped cause the A. Are such changes normal for a WS in an affair?

Those kinds of changes are straight from the wayward spouse handbook, sundog.

My WH changed in many of the same ways your WW has. He went from a devoted family man who spent as much time as possible with our children to a distant, cold, neglectful father who fought me in court over paying child support. He used to speak disparagingly about men who would leave their families and said he would never betray his wife, but guess what he did?

I probably didn't make you feel any better, but at least you know you're not alone. Your WW is following the script.

Yeppers.

I had myself conviced I was a completely different person with different wants and goals during my A. In any relationship that you are putting effort into, you start to adopt that person's way of life a bit.

My H too - when he had his affair realized he wasn't replacing me, he was replacing himself and becoming someone new and different and realized he liked who he was and who he was had alot to do with me.

Pebbles nailed it - your WW is following the script.

Oh, yes. My WH told me he was tired of being "someone else" and he was going to start being "himself." Frankly, I preferred the old "self."

Stung

And in such a situation where the WS has this change of personality and goals during the A, do you think it is an unveiling of their true self and attributes that they repressed while faithful to the M, or is it the dopamine junkie they have become?

For example, if they were to actually leave their BS and start a long term relationship with the OP, would their new personality persist, or will it eventually fail because it's not who they really are?

This is a hard concept for me to grasp. I've always been myself. Never experienced any major changes, never was influenced during high school, never bought a Dallas Cowboy hat during their glory days, etc.

my husband says things like "i've changed." (i liked him just the way he was) "I'm not the same person" (too bad for me that you still look just like him) "I'm different now" (well...you used to be loving, kind, caring, honest, faithful, moral...yes..you ARE differene but it's nothing to be bragging about) "I'm taking care of me now" ( i realize that as you don't care if you hurt me, hardly call your sick father, and hardly ever talk to your family)

i hope my guy comes back soon. i miss him

I think this is a good point to recognize.

When the WS chooses to have an affair, they are not choosing something that is against their value system.

A WS doesn't (usually!) go from faithful devoted spouse to infidel overnight.

The WS has to go through anywhere from an 'readjustment of values' to a complete change in value systems in order to rationalize the affair.

The BS is usually blindsided as he or she doesn't notice the changes (if there are any visible signs). And so the question is asked over and over by the stunned, shocked and destroyed BS - how can WS do this to me?!?!

The problem is that the BS is still looking at the affair from within a value system that didn't include infidelity as justifiable.

I think it's important to for the BS to really really "get" that the WS no longer shares the BS's values. The sooner this recognition happens, the sooner the BS can start making choices based on the reality of who the WS is at that moment, instead of based on who the WS used to be.

Once the BS starts making reality based choices ~ executing a good plan A and putting up boundaries to lessen some of the WS chaos and destruction becomes much easier.

Once a BS starts making choices based on reality, the WS starts suffering the reality based consequences of their own bad decisions - as reality doesn't mix with fantasy.

If the WS is ever to return to FS status....this reality check as a result of actions by the BS is usually necessary.

Things like...exposure...and Plan B...are just a couple of those reality based consequences!

BRAMBLEROSE:

That was a 100% nail head striking kick A$$ post... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Sour...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Glad you liked it Mr Sour! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

bramblerose

Wow..that was wonderful!

and so....do they get those values back?

my husbands "new" values are so different from those he and his family always had...he hardly calls them or sees them.

He was the best man i ever knew and now......he's the worst

Hi Eav...

The WS doesn't "get" values back. It's not something that just happens to them out of the blue.

The WS chooses a value system in which infidelity and abandonment of family was justifiable.

The WS can change his/her mind, and choose a value system that values committment, obligations, vows, marriage.. etc.

But just keep in mind...the WS (not just a WS, but people in general) chooses a value system based on the resulting payoff.

Pre-affair, the WS decides fidelity ain't workin for him or her. So the shift in values and the resulting payoff is pretty obvious. To leave the affair and shift back to the old value system...the WS needs to see the benefit.

Hence, Plan A and Plan B. Nobody (WS or otherwise) is going to make a fundamental shift to values that will result in pain and suffering.

{edit for typos - stupid eyeballs!}

Well I thought that this happened when the "aliens" deliver the WS from the clutches of the evil "OW/OM" out of the blue? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

SOur......

I'm confused--

A BS wants the WS back "the way he was", even though "the way he was" led to an A, inflicting countless pain on you and he/she, as well as any children.

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to want a WS to be a better person than before he/she had the A? If so, doesn't that mean that the dreams/goals/values of the WS are going to be different after the A than before the A?

The difference between me "pre-A" and me "post A" is that I am much more aware of my own feelings and needs, and that I don't hesitate in expressing those to my W. (Which does *not* mean she has to give me what I am asking for--she only has to understand.)

Sundog: While I understand your confusion, what your W wants (other than the completely idiotic idea that OM is Mr. Right) is pretty reasonable. Travel? Lots of people like to travel. Children? I know many, many people with only one child. Cars? They sell lots and lots of 350Zs, so someone is buying them.

She probably wanted this stuff "pre-A", but didn't tell you. Why? Probably it was a combination of her inability to express her feeling along with your desire not to "hear" anything outside of the "dutiful wife/mother" role you/she/society assigned her.

Exactly!

Heck no, I don't want my WH back the way he was! He cheated on me and abandoned me and the children and has been a real jerk. I want the devoted family man back, the guy with the great sense of humor, but I can do without the conflict avoiding and secrets!

I know I am not the same person I was before the affair. I have learned a lot about myself, made some changes, and have become much stronger. I don't expect my WH to be the same person either.

I don't want exactly the same marriage we had pre-affair. I want a smarter, more in-tune, new-and-improved marriage, and I'd be willing to work for it - but he'd have to participate.

actually...my husband' girlfriend was nice enough to share with me that he has learned how to communicate better and be honest about his feelings....how nice for me to know that SHE helped him to become such a better person each time she crawled out of her husbands bed and into his.


I wan the guy back who had morals and values...yes if he had communicated and been honest-i would have hadsome idea that he was not happy and would have had some chance but.....it still hurts to hear what she said-after being together for 19 years.......

Hi guys ~ Yes, we hope that the WS comes back wiser and smarter than he/she was pre-A.

Everyone makes value changes along the path of life - these are minor adjustments that we call "growth".

But...would the BS chose to marry a person who said: "Hi future BS, just for the record, I think infidelity is an option in our marriage!"

Of course not. And I'll bet in most cases, the WS didn't think it was an option either.

My point is, the BS needs the WS to return to a set of values that included honesty, fidelity and commitment to family. Presumably the WS had those pre-A.

We hope (and expect) that there are some shifts of growth when returning the old value systems.

Eav ~

Ignore OW. Just because she said it, doesn't make it true. Just because YOU do not lie and make things up doesn't mean that she doesn't. Look what she's doing with your husband and to her husband. She's not to be considered a reliable source!

The bad relationship habits and behaviors that the WS engaged in during your marriage haven't just miraculously disappeared because he's with OW. In fact, those lovely little pieces of baggage will help lead to demise of the affair.

When the relationship is new and hot and mostly fantasy, its easy to ignore those little nasty bad behaviors. Let reality shine on their affair, and those bad boys come out and start causing trouble.

thank you bramblerose!

hmmmm...he's learned how to be open and honest right?

...she seemed VERY offended that my husband had not told her he left me two messages threatening suicide if i charged him with adultry. (i told her i had it taped and would play it for her if she didn't believe me...i only asked if he had a gun and if so, that she get it out of the house. she said he had bought one after her husband smashed all of his/our truck windows. How would i have known if he had not told me?)

she said he was angry that i called his sister but he did not tel her that i only called because i was afraid for his safety.

i told her that know that i know she was in the picture...it made sense why my husband refused to go to MC and refused to accept my attempts to make changes (meet his emotional needs)

she told me that his story was that i refused to go to counseling and refused to make any changes in myself becasue I did not think I was part of the problem.

i'm sure he told her everything I said was a lie....but there has got to be some doubts

Does she really expect a guy who is lying and cheating on his wife to be HONEST with aome other guys wife? oh yeah..i forgot...they are soul mates....it's DIFFERENT for them:)

but darn it, i got the book "how to suvive an affair before my husband left. other than identifying his needs, he refused to do anything to work on our marriage. now i knowit's cause she was there and even worse..... in my conversations with them last week, they both used words like:
"open and honest" "companionship" "affection" "That is what he needs"

"and she is the domestic support in her family"

do you think he shared the things from the book I BOUGHT FOR US with her? what are the chances she got the same books on her own? slim i'd say.

and if her needs include domestic support and family....my husband never wanted children (she has 2-3)becuase he always said he was to selfish to devote his time and money to them...she even said at one point..your husband does not like children

guess that's why she's not divorcing her husband to have mine

Keep on rock'n woman!