YES YES YES! In answer to your first question!

IT IS CHEMISTRY! But not necessarily what you think!

READ!! "WHY WE LOVE", by Helen Fisher(anthropologist)

As human beings we are hard wired to react physically and emotionally in certain ways when we are first attracted to someone....chemicals are actually released in the brain,(dopamine levels rise,) the same area of the brain that is affected when someone is ADDICTED to cocaine, alcohol, etc.!!!

This is why it is so IMPORTANT for Us ALL to have BOUNDARIES when dealing with the opposite sex at work, etc. IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE!! Some are more susceptable than others.....especially people who have recently experienced a significant life experience, death of a loved one, accident, job loss/change, etc.

Some people who have problems staying in long term relationships are actually ADDICTED to this feeling and seek it over and over in new relationships....

This attraction phase is not long lasting....months at most....remember those first feelings you had...you couldn't eat, sleep, concentrate....couldn't wait to see your "love" again, wanted to spend ALL your time with them, family and friends put on the back burner, the world is such a wonderful place...and then eventually these intense feelings and desires began to wane....as they should....the human body could not survive this heightened level of emotional and physical state for long, it takes way too much energy!!!!

In long term relationships we eventually slide into the attachment phase, the phase where a "committment to caring for each other" should sustain the relationship through the natural high's and low's of our "in love" feelings!!

So with that in mind please understand that when someone involved in an Affair says things like, "I love you but I"m not in love with you" or, "It just happened", "I can't explain it", "I've never felt this way before", "why can't you just be happy for me"...yada, yada,
DO NOT let it get to you, it is a sympton of this ADDICTION process taking place, NOT a true reflection of their real feelings for YOU!

IF the addiction cannot be broken at first with things like Exposure, etc......TIME will eventually be it's natural death!!!! So it's what you do with this TIME that is important...protect yourself from the pain(PB), work on you, read, learn, find compassion ...

It is difficult for WP's to give up thier "DRUG"....the High feels so good, they don't know if they can live without it....IT IS CHEMICAL!!! Some can break it easier than others....

Name calling, anger, disrespectul, revengeful actions WILL NOT help!!!! It may push them further away...closer to the DRUG that for now is making them feel sooo good...

It's not easy...but recovery can happen....when the ADDICT finally bottoms out and begins to realize the damage they have done....when the chemicals high begins to subside (the FOG clears)....Recovery is possible.....WILL YOU BE READY AND STRONG ENOUGH....WILL YOU HAVE SUCCESSFULLY HELD ON TO YOUR LOVE (PB)...

Hope this helps!

In our last discussion about this, she said "You know, if I went, it would only be because you wanted me to." Who wants to go out with someone like that?

and what is your answer to that.....

ARK

Low:

I missed your earlier post to me...

I will be back to you with ideas...

Follow along with ARK's line of thinking though...

It's ALL in your CONVO with her which needs to continue....

What reasons does she give? This would probably help me to understand her better...


What makes you think you are special? Who doesn't, really, that's only human? A lot of us are not willing to be honest about this. I think that's the difference. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Yep. This is what my H did. Why "WITHDRAW AND GET ANGRY". Why not openly express your feelings? Sounds like CONFLICT AVOIDANCE to me...

It is a disrespectful judgement. At least it was with me.. I was SOOOO SELF-RIGHTEOUS. I see that now...YUCK!!

What my H does now which I find appealing is to say stuff like this:

(HONEY, BABY, SWEETIE OR WHATEVER FORM OF ENDEARMENT), I WANT TO DO (SUCH AND SUCH) AND I WANT TO DO (SUCH AND SUCH) WITH YOU...

The emphasis is on the YOU... He makes me feel special and desirable....This is said with FORCE AND COMPASSION..ASSERTIVENESS....

YOU CREATE THE "IT"..even if "IT"
is not there NOW..This is "IT" EDUCATION....YOU DEMONSTRATE "IT" FOR HER... rather than FORCING "IT"on her.



LOW!!! This is "IT" creation in the making.. A woman wants to hear you say OK to this. This is a good start for her to go because you want her to go....That would give her PLEASURE to GIFT you by going someplace JUST FOR YOU...WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?

From the sound of this, she is doing POJA with you but you are not recognizing her efforts...

I think you are wanting it to be MAGICAL..

It will seem MAGICAL, eventually...

First, she will have to learn...

First, you will have to woo her, romance her, court her...

Get the tickets for the jazz concert. Leave them at her office with flowers. Buy her a special outfit/cologne that you like for the event.

WITH ALL THAT, COMMUNICATE TO HER THAT YOU WILL NOT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER....

It's a romantic dance. Sounds like you may need to take the first step....

Low,

I hate feeling the way you seem to be right now. Maybe it has to do with winter coming on and feeling my age. I ask myself many of the same questions that you do.

I don't think that you can get "IT" if it doesn't exit. The mantra here is that love is a choice. Well, that is partially true. Acting in a loving fashion is a choice. Having those power feelings for someone isn't a choice. When you lock eyes with someone and you feel that jolt . . . it is just fantastic. Some people are just electric. I think that that is what you are looking for and I don't think that any amount of self-help or MBing is going to get you that.

I think that the techniques here can help recover feelings that have been buried under piles of the detritus of life (kids, neglect, weight gain, major LB) I don't think that any amount of MB stuff is going to get you to feel things that you have never felt for that person.

Your wife sounds like a perfectly normal, good woman. I bet tons of men would just die to have her for a wife. I just don't know if she is a good woman for you. You are going to have to make that decision. You only get one life Low and if you choose to endure it in quiet resignation then that will be your decision. Just don’t resent your wife if you make that choice. She is what she is.

I love my wife. I act loving toward her to the best of my ability. I treat her with respect. When I lock eyes with her, when we share that instant, I either feel "IT" or I don't. I can't make myself feel it either. Contrary to a lot of verbiage spewed here, there is precious little that she can do to really affect the feeling. I can be extremely upset with her, and she can be being a total b!tch, but that doesn't seem to affect "IT" at all. In that one look I know if my marriage is a lie.

Comfortable:

I "think" I may disagree with you....

I used to be just like LOW'S WIFE for many years...and my H tried to deal with his unhappiness and dissatisfaction with me FOR YEARS.. His coping methods were POOR.. You know where this all led...

The only difference maybe that we did have "IT" in the pass and now have "IT" very much so again....

However, both of us had to "WORK" at this and continue to have to "WORK" at this...

"IT" seems MAGICAL but "IT" is not....

Hmmm, I find myself identifying with both TA and Low’s wife. I used to be the spontaneous and passionate one. FWW pressed it out of me over the years, too. Long before her LTA started, even.

But I cannot blame her entirely. Once I decided to marry I figured W and family came first and I needed to save instead of spend, always have a clean house ready and be home when W returned from a business trip, laundry always done regularly, DS homework and dinner always ready on time was more important than my hobbies....and on and on. Even supporting W's career at the expense of mine. These were my decisions and I own them.

But, FWW definitely more than discouraged most spontaneous fun we could have had together. The template I describe above was what she wanted from me - which is probably why she married me in the first place. She knew I would become like that with the right pressure from her.

The part I still do not understand is how she could have her LTA and talk endlessly about all her woulda, shoulda, couldas after controlling and manipulating me into giving up mine. Man, talk about a double standard.


Low, despite what I posted earlier, I think I do understand what you want. It’s what I want again, too. W’s LTA has left me feeling very isolated and bored. I want “It” too. In fact, now I want “It All”.

Perhaps a difference between us is, I think “It” does not have to be some person, FWW or other. It can be a close relationship with God, a cool hobby, road trips on a new Harley, returning to finish my PhD... With or without FWW.

I see a tendency in your posts, recognizing that all I know about you is from your posts, that you think this “It”, this chemistry, your happiness in life, depends on someone else. I now know mine does not. Maybe that’s the main difference between us.

There are all kinds of things that stimulate dopamine that do not have anything to do with any woman whatsoever. I am quite happy to have discovered this, BTW. It took me long enough.

You are quite right...I tend to seek external soothing. Self-soothing is a difficult skill for me to learn. I'm working on it, and not nearly as bad as I used to be, but it takes time.

BUT...Perhaps I'm not thinking correctly...but it would seem that a fully self-actualized (well differentiated) person would only enter into an intimate relationship for the "It", since they have very little need to fulfill anything other.

And you've hit upon my biggest fear...that out of ignorance I have cheated my wife out of twenty some odd years of her life that could have been spent with someone who felt "it" for her.

I just don't know if I could ever forgive myself...

What would be the right thing to do? Stay, because she feels "it" for me? Leave, so she can find someone who does feel "it" for her?

I'm frustrated, but not ready to give up yet. I think I'll keep trying mimi's tack.

I know some are reading this post and thinking that I'm missing the ex-OW. I'm not. It's not about her. Yes, there was "it", but she lacked the qualities needed to have a stable LTR. It would never have worked.

What I'm wondering is if it's reasonable to "want it all" as Aph says.

Low ... are you at all honest with your wife about any of this?

I believe that I offer "ALL" to my FWH and we are so happy.

"ALL" defined as a "good, normal, Christian woman who also provides delight, surprises and fun, etc. for her H".

He acknowledges that OW didn't provide the former and I didn't provide the latter. His encouragement to me to continue to provide the latter has enriched my own personal life. I find myself being fun and having more fun in other settings....

Like Aphelion, I experience "IT" in other endeavors/pasttimes but having my H to share my life makes EVERYTHING MORE SPECIAL.....He further enriches my life experiences...

Let's see...doesn't like to be around people drinking alcohol (including me). Doesn't like to be somewhere other women are behaving "lewdly" (because I might look). Doesn't like getting "dressed up" in a way that fits in (church clothes and out-on-the-town clothes differ). Doesn't like "wasting" money to go dancing when we could dance in the kitchen.



Here's what's wrong: It's not POJA. There is nothing enthusiastic about her agreement. If I knew that she was going with the intent of ensuring that I had a good time, I'd buy into this whole hog, but I think that she's going to be a wet blanket the whole time. I think she'd make a mission out of proving to me that it wasn't a good idea.

But I do see your point. We should do it anyway. She might have fun despite herself.

PEP:

That's what I've been encouraging LOW to do..

To be OPEN AND HONEST with his wife about this....

... waiting to read Low's "yes but" ....

I bet you already see that you are making an assumption. Give her a chance...

Wasn't the FOW maybe good at PRETENDING that she was spontaneous...making it SEEM MAGICAL...

Yes. There is no but. We've had quite direct conversations about this. I feel she has dug her heels in. Like she thinks I'm trying to drag her into ****** or something.

If there's one thing I've learned here...being dishonest with your feelings gets you NOWHERE.

She is frustrated with me as well. As I said earlier, she thinks I'm trying to get her to compromise her beliefs and ideals.

Maybe I am. Maybe CN is right. Maybe I just don't want to face the inevitable.

PEP:

What do you say?

I might not be able to post again until tomorrow....

Gosh, I hated my days as the "WOMAN OF THE CHURCH"..

THIS LIFE IS SO MUCH MORE FUN.....

In an affair, we don't have to pretend to be spontaneous...it is the very nature of a relationship based on stolen moments.

So, yes, I know the OW was pretending about a lot of things. Took me a long time to see this.

So your wife is being honest about going only for you when the OW wasn't.

Once you go together (to the concert or wherever), the outcome is the same...

The end result will be better than "IT"..

The end result will be INTIMACY...

You have your answer...

Romance her..like you did the FOW...

Yes, that's what I am saying...

"STOLEN MOMENTS" WITH YOUR WIFE.....

Demonstrate to her what you are wanting...

That's how I have learned from my FWH....