Either you have married a stick in the mud or she does not respect you and your feelings.


My husband likes to go and do far more than I do. I am perfectly happy just being at home. Because I know this is important to him, I take the initiative to suggest things for us to do ~ an afternoon movie, a ride or weekend at the beach, lunch at the Mexican restaurant, etc.

This does not sound like the kind of issue that is going to work itself out unless you are able to discuss it and come to some common understanding. Resentment is going to build.

If this were to happen in my house after our recovery, I'd tell my husband that it was time for a tune up. I care too much about our relationship to just let it slide.

We would be going back for a little "tune up marital counseling" to discuss these issues and feelings.


Susan

Low:


I'm not fully understanding, honestly, some of the other posts to you. So I'm responding directly to you..

I really relate to your situation. I WAS YOUR WIFE.. YOU SOUND A LOT LIKE MY FWH...

My H had a MLC. I am sure of this. I'm THINKING that WE are in the SAME AGE GROUP....

My question to you is: "What did you say to her when you found her in the Lazy Boy?"

You could have talked to her THEN about how HURT you were about this...

Instead I suspect that you did what my H used to do. You GOT ANGRY AND WITHDREW...

I wish to this day that when my H used to feel as you probably did last night that he would have "SCREAMED" out to me and said: "I am hurting because of your rejection of me...."

If your wife is feeling like I used to feel, she is in a rut of thinking that "love" at this stage is "acceptance" of who she is...What she is not understanding is that your needs at this point in your life is not a rejection of HER. It's not about her as much as what you are needing at this point. However, you need to tell her, REALLY tell her and try to EXPLAIN it to her. She probably is under the assumption that you are wired like she is or she wants you to be. I have come to understand that MIDDLE-AGED MEN are very different than MIDDLE-AGED WOMEN. We can definitely be out of sync with each other.

I don't agree with those that say that long-term married people don't have chemistry or enthusiasm for each other. Unhappily married, long-term married people don't have that. I come in contact with lots of people and couples in my work, intimately, from day to day. There are plenty of folks in their 80s even that still have the chemistry, even SF, in these days of Viagra...I wish you could have seen the continued sparkle in the eyes of my 90 year old grandparents for each other. They were married for 71 years when my grandfather died of a "broken heart" when my GM went to a nursing home. He used to tell me not to make "unannounced" visits to his house so as not to intrude on his "personal" time with his wife..Oh, the stories I could tell about them.....

I have a list of the ENs that I keep on my desk. I really agree with the Harleys that it boils down to that. Steve told me that the "in love" feeling that I think is this "chemistry" boils down to meeting as much of these needs for each other as possible. Your wife is not meeting your ENs. You are not meeting hers. Her number one need seems to be OPENNESS and HONESTY.

I would say to make it a priority to tell her today how much it bothered you for her NOT TO SHOW UP AT THE BAR... I would ask her again and tell her that YOU NEED FOR HER TO BE THERE. That you LONG for RECREATIONAL COMPANIONSHIP with her. She does meet certain of your ENs such as Physical Attraction, Domestic Support, etc.

Do you see where I am going with this?

To me it is SIMPLE yet COMPLEX...

Our goal, my H and I, is to maintain CHEMISTRY in our marriage..

I do not wear "ratty" underwear and neither does he..YUCK....

It's really not about the underwear, though. It's about INTIMACY and CLOSENESS..

Do not WITHDRAW from HER..MOVE CLOSER.....

Mimi,

I think that you and your marriage are the exception. Most long term married people that I know, and I admit that it is a rather small sample size, are not all that lovey-dovey with each other. They are content. They have come to terms with what their lives really are. They both develop outside interest and pursue them, i.e. hobbies. I’m sure some long term marriages may have chemistry (you described one), but in my experience, it is rare, so rare in fact that I have never personally experienced it. My grandparents were married for 50+ years. I’m sure they loved each other I guess. They never fawned over each other though. Grandma was a tough old farm girl and Granddad was the most stubborn man I think I’ve ever met. They were desperately poor during the depression. They had a child die in infancy. They were rarely joyous in each other’s company; I think that life’s hardships pretty much sucked all joy out of their lives. I don’t know if I remember them ever being affectionate; they were to me though. I think that the feeling of being in love in a long term marriage ebbs and flows. It is good to hear that your reality is so much different that mine. I will hope and actively strive for a long term marriage like yours, however I expect a different outcome in my case. This is just the way it is for me and I accept it.

I think that Low is looking to marriage to find his happiness and that, I believe, is a fool's errand. Marriage isn't intended to make you happy . . . marriage just makes you married. I think you can experience happiness in marriage, but happiness is really an internal emotion. Of course external events can affect the way one perceive happiness, but the fact stands that no one can make you happy . . .

Comfortably:

I very much disagree with your POV of marriage.

We live in very different worlds..very much so..

I will agree to disagree with you...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Here's the show stopper red flag for me....

when Orbit attempts to engage his wife in something she replies.......

In our last discussion about this, she said "You know, if I went, it would only be because you wanted me to." Who wants to go out with someone like that?

Is this NOT the essence of being married.....doing and sacrificing for the other?

Is this NOT a definitive statement of I don't respect nor care for you enough to sacrifice anything for you...

and look at the manipulation of onus of responsibility...

it actually gets turned in to a statement about Low...

a reflection on him...

when in reality she owns every part of that statement...

which she is certainly entitled to...
BUT
it is not yours to own LOW....
but it sure is a show stopper...and easily becomes a familiar power struggle....

She is very uncomfortable with any activity like this for a variety of reasons

uncomfortableness breeds uncomfortableness.....

being uncomfortable only exists in the realm of exposure...
especially when the requests are reasonable ones....

and being uncomfortable in my book is NOT a valid reason for not going out listening to music and maybe taking a spin on the dance floor....

Low...
it is my opinion you need to address this...

ARK

ARK:

I agree with you..

I didn't understand you at first....

Yes, this is the reality of marriage.

Low,
You have read Schnarch-"intimacy is confronting yourself and self-disclosing to your partner. When you reach the point where you are unwilling to adapt to each other and unwilling to confront yourself,you are in emotional gridlock"
She is gridlocked, not you. You are confronting yourself, and voicing your concerns on this forum. Somehow you think that she feels more for you that you do for her, but I don't buy that. She might say she does, but words are easy. Your actions, and your continued efforts to reach out to her and adapt demonstrate that. That "chemistry" you want will only happen if she does the same, and I don't think she has. Maybe on the outside she appears to be trying, but I think she remains in her comfort zone. Time to push her in to the crucible.

WOW!!!

Well said, STARTING OVER....

I think you are onto something here...

ARRRGH! I HADN'T EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT THIS UNTIL YOU BROUGHT IT UP!

You are exactly right. I got pissed off, gave her that disgusted look, then went about some chores. I blew it! WOuld've been a chance to make some progress.

CN, Lowering my expectations just somehow doesn't feel right. In my heart of hearts, I know it can be better than this if we'll just stop sabotaging it.

I need to pull the book out again. How can I do this?

tazer
or
cattle prod...

makes little difference.......

ARK
(do I have to say I'm kidding...cause I will if it's necessary....but I hope people realize I'm just kidding..
...............

a little

ARK <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Low,

This isn’t about lowering your expectations. This is about having expectations that have a chance of being realized. The wife you wish to have is very far removed from the one you do. You want someone that is fun, flirty, upbeat and spontaneous. Your wife is none of these things. If you keep demanding that your wife be what she isn’t, you will never be content.

Let me give an example of my thinking. I don’t like crowds. My wife can want me to enjoy going to concerts and other places that people amass, but no amount of her wanting will make me enjoy it. I’m a bit agoraphobic. I will go sometimes at her insistence (or simply because I want to be with her), but I am on edge the entire time. I’m nervous . . . I can’t stop looking around to see who is behind me. It just isn’t fun at all. I'm sure your wife would go dancing if you keep insisting that you want her to. She may even find that she does indeed like it. I just wouldn't go expecting her to like it.

I suggest that you change because, frankly, that all you can really control. I guess I really don’t have much of value to add here. I hope you guys make it Low.

Do whatever it takes to get her ATTENTION...

A Megaphone...Your Birthday Suit...WHATEVER....

If at first you don't succeed, TRY..TRY..AGAIN...

We, as women/wives, are validating your desires as being normal and acceptable...

What would you have done last night that you failed to do when you found her asleep in the chair?

Low,
You get her to the crucible by setting your boundaries, and refusing to back down. She becomes increasingly uncomfortable, and the relationship changes because you don't want to accept less than you know is possible. I find it hard to believe that once you have true intimacy, you ever settle for less. I wonder if she really got there the first time-maybe she thought she was, but she could have
stopped short. If she did get there, then maybe you have progressed further, and she is experiencing withdrawal because she loves you so much she is afraid to maintain this level of intimacy.
I'm quoting again
"1. If you want to keep intimacy alive, your level of differentiation must keep pace with your partners increasing importance to you.
2. The point at which your partners importance exceeds your level of differentiation results in another layerof gridlock.
3.Gridlock caused by your partners growing importance sets the stage for your shift to self-validated intimacy and enhanced differentiation."

Don't give up, keep pushing her.

... and you set your boundaries by not allowing her to stop you from doing what she's agreed to do with you.

WLO: "I'm too tired to go. Anyway, I wouldn't enjoy it."

LO: "I'm sorry, honey. That's a shame. But you know, I booked a table. I guess [DS/DD/MIL/my friend Fred] will enjoy a free meal. I'll get you a glass of water and catch you later."

You establish your boundary - that you will not let her passive resistance stop you from doing what you want to do.

You do this once, twice, ten times, twenty. You do it till she gets the message that you mean it. The one who wins a power struggle is the one who has the greatest persistence, not the one who hits the hardest.

She's forcing you to take a stand, and you're hoping that she'll stop forcing you to take action, because it's uncomfortable for you. But you're the one who's got to step up to the plate here.

The one-time pressure move (the A) effected a shift in her attitude for only a short time, as is inevitable with one-time pressure-moves. You have to set a course and stick to it.

I'll leave you with a thought, LO. Fron your description, you deliberately picked a woman with whom you had few interests in common. Why do you think you did that?

TA

my thought

EGG ZAK LEE