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#1435254 07/23/05 04:49 AM
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aaron, i don't know where you are, but i really need to talk to you. please don't shut me out. i know you are angry and hurt, but i am dealing with a lot too and i really need to speak with you. i didn't know if you still were planning to meet with me next thursday, but i think it would be a good idea since i will be in the area. i will try to call you tomorrow and hopefully you are back at the irizarry's by now, but we really do need to talk. please, please, don't leave me hanging like this. there's a lot for us both to talk about before you leave for pullman and time is running out.

talk to you soon,
shannon

Last edited by Fox0r; 07/23/05 06:46 AM.

Me 20
WW 20
Friends since: December 10, 1999
Began Dating: October 29, 2003
Married Feb 13, 2004
D-Day: July 28, 2005
Separated since: June 9, 2005
Now in Plan B - headed for D.
Praying on God's guidance and support


But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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Fox

if you are plan B'ing you need to change ID sso she cannot tempt you out of NC with mails like this.

She doesn;t like the fact that your silence and hurt show your righteous disapproval of her behaviour. She wants to leave you but wants you to make her feel good about it.

Why the hell should you ?

Go dark Fox. As you say use an attorney to contact her.

Give yourself some space to breathe away from the chaos and her goading.

All blessings.


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you said in your other post....

I am not going to Plan A - I'm not strong enough to do it emotionally and all it does it cause problems.I'm sick of being ripped on everytime I put time out for her. I called her out of good heart and she spent the whole time taking shots at me.

I don't want any Plan other than to be out of this.


I don't understand what you want people here to tell you..

if you are planning a divorce then talk to her...
why wouldn't you??....

you can't be in plan B without a plan B letter....

have you hired a lawyer yet....

ARK

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i have a lawyer - she doesn't.

This isn't about Plan A or Plan B anymore. I have no proof of any A right now; nor do I care. According to her this is about "her" and about "how she feels and how she has changed". For lack of better words; she is a quitter, can't handle commitment. She's just to ****** to admit that she is leaving because she is selfish and never meant her vows to begin with even though she "thought she did." She came into this marriage playing house, and after she broke her puppet, she found it wasn't really that fun anymore.

She wants to go party again and sleep around some more.

Doesn't matter anyhow. I don't want to have anything to do with this woman ever again. She can have my lawyer go over the papers with her; I look forward to never having to see her lying, betraying, back-stabbing face again. I hope she has fun working a retail job at minimum wage and getting used again for the rest of her life. Good riddance.

Last edited by Fox0r; 07/23/05 07:12 AM.

Me 20
WW 20
Friends since: December 10, 1999
Began Dating: October 29, 2003
Married Feb 13, 2004
D-Day: July 28, 2005
Separated since: June 9, 2005
Now in Plan B - headed for D.
Praying on God's guidance and support


But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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did you read my last response on your first email post..

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Yes, I did - why?

Last edited by Fox0r; 07/23/05 07:25 AM.

Me 20
WW 20
Friends since: December 10, 1999
Began Dating: October 29, 2003
Married Feb 13, 2004
D-Day: July 28, 2005
Separated since: June 9, 2005
Now in Plan B - headed for D.
Praying on God's guidance and support


But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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you said in your other post....

I am not going to Plan A - I'm not strong enough to do it emotionally and all it does it cause problems.I'm sick of being ripped on everytime I put time out for her. I called her out of good heart and she spent the whole time taking shots at me.

I don't want any Plan other than to be out of this.


I don't understand what you want people here to tell you..

if you are planning a divorce then talk to her...
why wouldn't you??....

you can't be in plan B without a plan B letter....

have you hired a lawyer yet....

ARK


Maybe I'm just doing this because I've taken so much crap from this woman that I've become so incredibly bitter that I just want to see her squirm in agony. She wasted the last two years of my life; my virginity, my dreams and hopes of not being like my parents and never divorcing; and the promises she made me. Why? Because she didn't like the married life; well..news flash - this is something you decide BEFORE you commit to someone FOR LIFE.

Telling someone they are "your soulmate" and that "you complete them" and that "they want you as the father of their children" aren't things you just TAKE BACK like its a game of f------ marbles.

Is this the Christian thing to do? No.

Am I acting extremely immature doing this to her? Yes.

Do I care? NO.

I hope she's tossing and turning in her bed wondering where the hell I am and why I've disappeared; I especially hope she realizes its because of the [censored] that shes become.

Last edited by Fox0r; 07/23/05 07:21 AM.

Me 20
WW 20
Friends since: December 10, 1999
Began Dating: October 29, 2003
Married Feb 13, 2004
D-Day: July 28, 2005
Separated since: June 9, 2005
Now in Plan B - headed for D.
Praying on God's guidance and support


But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Joined: Sep 2001
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I mean my second and last response....

you can mock my posts and use the term "manly" towards me as if they are silly.....

AND

it's an opinion board...and if you want I can and will surely stop with my opinions.....

ARK^^

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I'm not trying to mock your post ark. If it came across that way I apologize.

I'm extremely angry about her backing out on our vows and the promises she made.

I spent the last month sacrificing my well-being for her, and I've FINALLY gotten enough guts to stand up for myself. I don't deserve the things she did to me, and I'm letting her know this.

I will be getting a divorce; so I guess I don't really have a need to post here anymore. The only thing on Earth that would EVER save this marriage would be her getting down on her hands and knees and begging for forgiveness for the hell she has put me through; but this won't happen - so I'm cutting my losses and moving on with my life.

In the meantime, she can sweat it out for a few days and wonder what in the hell I'm up to - its about time she did.

Last edited by Fox0r; 07/23/05 07:29 AM.

Me 20
WW 20
Friends since: December 10, 1999
Began Dating: October 29, 2003
Married Feb 13, 2004
D-Day: July 28, 2005
Separated since: June 9, 2005
Now in Plan B - headed for D.
Praying on God's guidance and support


But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906
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I'm extremely angry about her backing out on our vows and the promises she made.

ofcourse you are..rightfully so....
no one here denies the pain you are in...

I spent the last month sacrificing my well-being for her, and I've FINALLY gotten enough guts to stand up for myself.

and pretty much every person who throws themselves in to plan A feels EXACTLY the same way....
numerous posters...current plan Aers...plan Bers...divorcing...read your I lost it on my wife post...and shook their heads and said been there done that.....

I don't deserve the things she did to me, and I'm letting her know this.

yep you are right again you don't deserve this...
and while you may feel you are letting her know this...
she can't hear you...
she's to busy forming her own defense in her mind while you unload your heart...she has already tuned you out..
she's so ready with a poor me .....defend myself we need to talk response...

your belief that you are and have let her know how much she has hurt you.....is an empty relief....for she's not capable of understanding the true depth of your pain cause she's to busy defending her own actions....

I will be getting a divorce; so I guess I don't really have a need to post here anymore.

foxor...this site is NOT about saving any and every marriage...but it is about saving yourself through the process.

you walk away right now this angry and you will ever be searching the mythical beast of closure...and will stand to put each and every next relationship in great danger of being your whipping boy for what she has done....

Dr. phil calls it earning your way of a marriage...

so I'm cutting my losses and moving on with my life.

this is what has me the most concerned....

ARK

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Ark -

How do I let her truly know how much she has hurt me if I can't wait out through a Plan A?

I want her to see how badly she's hurt me; but I can't and don't want to Plan A anymore - I don't think a Plan B would do anything?

I want real closure; not a false relief that you described.

How do I "earn" my way out of this marriage from here?

Thank you for your kind words and advice by the way. I was never trying to mock or belittle your words in ANY way. I greatly appreciate them.

Last edited by Fox0r; 07/23/05 07:42 AM.

Me 20
WW 20
Friends since: December 10, 1999
Began Dating: October 29, 2003
Married Feb 13, 2004
D-Day: July 28, 2005
Separated since: June 9, 2005
Now in Plan B - headed for D.
Praying on God's guidance and support


But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906
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How do I let her truly know how much she has hurt me if I can't wait out through a Plan A?

perhaps...eh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

right now is no time to make any decisions....your adrenaline rush from unloading is still too high....
not a good time to make any decisions...

your emotions understandably so..cloud and distort the small person lost inside of a WS...
they are so lost ....from values in this world....they spend a lot time and energy surrounding themselves with others who are just like them so as to hide from who they really are...
they change definitions of words like friends , love , and soulmate to fit in to their universe totally denying the reality of the universe in which they live..

they go to great means to run from themselves...and to run from those that show them the way back...

you think she has destroyed you..but the truth is she is truly destroyed right now...AND ...she is lost from the Light....

I would want to be a BS anyday, than a WS....

if you move through this with great anger and emotions and demands for retrobutuion....you will become familiar... and easily to distort to fit her own world..

my soontobe-exhusband is soooo bitter
my stbxhusband just never understood that I didn't MEAN to hurt him..
he was too controling
he is bitter...
he should want me to be happy...

oh how easily you can fit her world..

your outburst was expected and familiar....because she knows that in reality that's how she would have reacted if the tables were turned...

WS can see the BS pain in small doses...in small verbage and actions that repeatedly break down the defenses...


I say do nothing this weekend...
and take some time to think this through...

and so you know plan B is a love letter....
full of hope and belief a person CAN change....it is an amazing statement to a WS so far from the person of honor they could be....

ARK

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Fox,

If you go out of this marriage at the emotional age that you went in, you leave bitter, angry, and it's all about her and how she wronged you.

You will carry that baggage into your next relationship and the next and the next, until you learn the lessons that are in front of you to learn now.

The lessons that I can see so far that you haven't learned:

It's not about you. Never was about you. So why are you acting and reacting as though it is? Yes, that's right! You are reacting measure for measure with immaturity and contempt for your vows, instead of being the loving gentleman you have it in you to be.

Now before you go all defensive on me, think about this. Her behavior is controlling your behavior. You have spouted foul language and expletives to describe her. Those words are all about you and who you are right now. NOT about her. Words that come from YOU. Your choices. You may think you are describing her. But you are describing yourself and demonstrating yourself to be an angry YOUNG man who is fresh out of the pimple stage of growth, not yet choosing to be who HE is, regardless of what life throws at him.

That is the value in doing Plan A for you - to make your choices of how to respond to this pain based on who you want to be - and you can choose to be dignified and patient and kind - developing yourself into a man who earns and deserves the tenderest, most enduring love imaginable. Or you can be an *ss, angry, beligerent, and retaliatory, thinking all the time that she's earned this from you. And guess what kind of new marriage THAT man is earning? The one you are leaving, of course!

She may deserve the worst behavior out of you imaginable. But you don't. So don't go there anymore.

Buck up. Plan A for you - not her. And see what kind of man you become!


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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Quote
Is this the Christian thing to do? No.

Am I acting extremely immature doing this to her? Yes.

Do I care? NO.

Well, that's pretty scary.

Good luck, buddy. I'll be praying for you.

John

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Fox - been thinking some more about your situation - you're young enough to be my son! How would I advise him?

This is a "School of Hard Knocks" situation. The trouble with the School of Hard Knocks is that they run their school with the same philosophy that the IRS works - You can pay now, or you can pay later with penalties and interest.

So what is the tuition to the School of Hard Knocks? The tuition is that you are required to learn and change and grow from the lessons taught there. That what you resist, will persist. And lessons unlearned you are tragically doomed to repeat until you can pass the class.

I have some text books for the lessons you are going through that I can recommend you read (can you tell, I've walked through the halls of this school more often than I can count???), if you are interested in getting a passing grade the first time through. Let me know. I don't do guidance counselor on the unwilling!


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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Fox0r,

I don't know if I've posted to you or not, but I have been reading your posts. Please listen to the words above. You are far too emotional about this to make any decisions...and so the best thing to do RIGHT NOW is to do NOTHING. Do not burn your bridges.

I read your story with interest because you are so young. I see a bright future for you NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS WITH YOUR MARRIAGE. In a way you are lucky. You come here at the beginning of your adulthood. The fact that you understand that this break-up of your marriage isn't just "one of those things" shows a great depth in you. If you do the right things now, even if your marriage does not work out--it is less likely to EVER happen to you again. I'm 34. This is my 2nd divorce and it kills me. My parents are still married. I wish I had learned my lessons the first time around. You have that opportunity that I, and many of us, have missed.

Here's the thing. Divorce is not going to magically take your pain away. You could get divorced tomorrow and you will feel exactly like you do right now--except eventually you'll have a feeling of regret and "what if". You will earn a bitterness that will stay with you forever, always coloring your future relationships.

You have all the time in the world to divorce--you only have a short time to save YOURSELF, and *possibly* your marriage.

You say Plan B won't work. Hmmmm....do you not see your wife itching for communication from you? Of course it has an effect. Will it work to save your marriage? Possible not...but do not make the mistake of believing it does not have an effect. Why in one of her emails, she even tried using the card of "we're still married"!!!! Please step back for a moment and look at things objectively.

Objectivity is the key for you. I understand it is difficult to obtain. Fake it til you make it, buddy. It's not some trite cliche--it works, even though it may take time.

I will speak only for myself when I say that I hope you will stay here, no matter what you decide to do regarding your marriage. Do you doubt that the things you learn here will be able to help you in your next relationship?

Please, Fox, you're too emotional to make rash decisions. Will you at least hold off a little?


~*~My Old Signature is too long~*~
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You can think of it as plan screw you if you wish. But as a christian, I would think, as some point you will have to make peace with this. Sounds like you're in the anger stage right now. Rightfully so. Read that bible!


BW-28-me FWH-27 D-Day 10-04 Together- 13 yrs Married- 4 yrs EA- 3 months -turned into a weekend PA, he came home on Sunday and told me. HS/College Sweethearts
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Well...

When I hung up on my W, I didn't tell her I wanted a divorce; I just expressed my hurt.

You guys are right - I do love her; but I've become to hopeless inside that I didn't want to try anymore. I do love this woman; but it is killing me seeing not only what she's doing to me; but to herself. She is throwing away her school, and is wanting to go run off into a lifestyle that was destroying her to begin with before we were together.

You're right - I am in the anger stage, what she's done has hurt so badly, I felt like the only thing I could do was yell in return. Is that stupid? Yes. Have I been immature, Yeah. Do I care...yeah, I do - now that I just woke up and have had time to think about what I've said.

Is ignoring her right now just going to piss her off? She seems concerned; but I'm sure in time that concern will turn into anger.

Is a Plan B letter the best alternative right now? I love her - but I don't think there is an A going on, so how do I go about writing a Plan B letter.

Also, how do I contact her and let her know there won't be papers filed? Through my lawyer? Should I go through with the separation papers? Or should I meet with her next thursday like she wanted to?

So confused...


Me 20
WW 20
Friends since: December 10, 1999
Began Dating: October 29, 2003
Married Feb 13, 2004
D-Day: July 28, 2005
Separated since: June 9, 2005
Now in Plan B - headed for D.
Praying on God's guidance and support


But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Joined: Jun 2005
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I want to express that I haven't talked to her because I've needed time to cool down; but that seems unproductive and like I'd be breaking any Plan B...not to mention I doubt she'd care.


Me 20
WW 20
Friends since: December 10, 1999
Began Dating: October 29, 2003
Married Feb 13, 2004
D-Day: July 28, 2005
Separated since: June 9, 2005
Now in Plan B - headed for D.
Praying on God's guidance and support


But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,107
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Fox you are asking questions that seem to show you have not listened to some of the wise advice.

Do not ask here for permission to do what you want.

Everybody is telling you to detach, calm down but you're puffing and grunting and bouncing off the walls with an angry hard-on needing to make some defiant gesture.

Calm down already !

Stop the chaos !

Your current panic is no good for your own health and God Willing that will last you another 70 years !

Say nothing. Study and READ what wise people have told you.

Or do what you want, and don;t ask advice. It will only confuse you if you do that.

All blessings.


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