Hi all,

This is a new thread which is a follow up on the thread I started a few days ago entitled: "Cheating wife:reality,fantasy,my options..."
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...page=2#2765864)

We had a great time last night, going to to a concert together, coming home making passionate love, and I very nearly balked on my decision to expose the next morning. Everything seemed so lovey-dovey, and almost seduced me into delaying.

But before she came to bedroom, I knew she was down in basement, writing email to OM, so I logged into my firewall and broke the connection so she would come upstairs (yes, I'm devious too). But I woke up at 3:30am (like I have continually for past few months), agonizing over reality and what is really going on. Took 2 0.5 xanax, some over-counter sleep aid and went back to bed. Woke up around 8:30am, trying to decide whether to go through with it or not this morning (expose). I came downstairs, she saw look on my face, and asked "what's wrong?" I said "wait until "Jxxxt" leaves (her friend who went to concert with us and spent night in spare room"). She pressured me anyway, so I told her, "I know what's going on."

Things are really messed up right now. She kept pressing me on how I know, and I refused to tell, saying that that isn't the point, the point being that she is romantically involved with OM. She kept grilling me, and so I told her I found OM's cell phone that he sent to her, just to deflect suspicion from email hacking (which has been my main source for past 3 months).

Don't know if it did too much good, because throughout dialog after exposure, she still accused me of hacking.

My initial breach of subject was civil: I simply said that I know that she is still romantically involved with OM (initial D-Day was first week of May...we've been in counciling and reconciliation since, but I've been spying and knowing that it has been continuing in spite of her intimate reaching out to me for past 3 months).

She kept trying to spin it back to me and the fact that I am invading privacy, and neither one of our trust will ever be rebuilt. I refuse to let her spin it back...kept telling her that I have been betrayed. She continually took responsibility for betrayal, but still kept escalating "trust factor" that I will always be rifling through her drawers, pocket book, email, etc., etc.

It ended a few hours later at a stale mate, her taking our 2 girls (2 and 9) to mall without a word.

She promised that tomorrow she will send cell phone back, send OM email that this has to stop, that she needs to concentrate on family 100%, etc. etc. At times, her language and tone, was reflected back at me in a way to make me feel guilty...that she will stop going to Allman Brothers concerts, etc. etc., and will concentrate on family becauase that is all that matters...like she is now a martyr.

I know she is scared...I proposed two "ultimatimums" without actually offering that as ultimatums, but as options: me moving into spare bedroom...or just putting the house up for sale and both getting seperate apartments. She immediately used kids as pawns, in that "you think I will make these girls move into apartment?!!??"

But I layed it on the line: I told her that I need to protect myself, that I cannot risk wasting the next 2 years of my life (or more) as she waits for OM to heal and make plans, etc. etc., while I can be using this time (I'm 38) to make my life better, and find someone who loves me as much as I love them.

Now I don't know if I have cut off all of my surveillance capabilites or now...as she may now be so suspicious and paranoid as to not use computer in basement any more (I have keylogging software installed), or change passwords on all email accounts....she left for mall with girls this afternoon, and I found that she left OM's secret cell phone in empty pocket book in bedroom...is it a trap?

We're almost back at square 1 from initial D-Day in May...no talking now, no trust. She claims that if I just left her alone and gave her the total time and space she requested initially, she would've eventially found the way to break off from OM and come back to me....I said B.S.!!!!!!, that's B.S., and you know it, there is now way we could have fixed and rejuvinated our marriage w/ 3rd party involved.

Like I said...i'ts now 4:00PM EST, I exposed around 9:00AM EST, she's at mall with girls, and it ended it stalemate.

I wonder if that cell phone in her pocket book upstairs will really get mailed back to OM tomorrow...and how can I ensure...I can't hack email anymore.....

I apologize if this post is not as coherent as I am capable...I've had a few shots of brandy an tequila today ...don't want to waste the xanax....(no I'm not at alcholic level yet...but if I don't get resolution soon...who knows? I would rather have a negative resolution at this point than the uncertainty and anguish that I'm going through now)

Me: 38
WW: 42
2 Girls: 2 and 9
Met: 1991
Married: 1994
OM: 50'ish? and married (in trouble or so he claims)...also on chemo for Hep. C....cannot travel much until treatment ends middle of 2006....lives 2,000 miles away
D-Day: May 2005
Watched EA continue all this summer via email and cell phone

Your WW will hate the exposure. She may threaten to leave you and tell you she hates you. But exposure is a great tool for using reality to stop affairs and support NC.

You must stop drinking, be calm an dloving to her. When she accuses to of all kinds of viciousnes say " I believe this i steh best way to support our marriage" and do not quail.

She will most probably be very angry, be prepared for it.

My Squid cursed me up and down and threatened all sorts. But she stayed with me. Kept NC. And now she loves me, and is sat in our living room watching TV waiting for me to go hug her.

Have faith. You did a brave thing. A good thing. Be strong now and ride out the storm.
If

Want....

GOOD!!! This is where you needed to start. As far as going back on your word, breaking your promise, spying on her goes: I'm going to do something....BIG 2x4. SMACK!!!!

At what point in a marriage did you promise privacy? Do not , for one second let her make you feel bad for trying saving your family at any cost. This is where MortorMan comes in. He is going to set you straight on the "war" you're engaged in. ...I have to grab my son...I'll be back...

Also, I would like to thank the valuable input of other to my original posting, which assisted me in crafting my civil exposure words to my wayward wife this morning:

MelodyLane, Owl, SendMyOnMyWay, (esepcially) ShellyBird for suggesting some VERY useful words and phrases to use, StillSeeking, womanoffaith, aussieswife, justlearning, bryanp...THANK YOU.

You all need to understand how difficult it was to take your words and suggestions into account, especially since I spent an AWFUL lot of time on other boards, psycho sites, saveyourmarriage, etc. sites, which contradicted ALL of your words....but my instinct (and anguish) led me to take all of your words into account, and ultimately led to my final decision.....thank you.

I don't know how this will turn out, but I feel more in control now than I have since this started on first D-Day and first exposure in May.

thanks.

W/o dragging in alot of detail, how does saveyourmarriage advice differ from that which was offered here?

I am just curious.

I hope that your situation improves dramatically.

sorry, I was just stream-of-consciousing there, I think I was actually thinking more in terms of Michelle Weiner-Davis Divorce Busting site (I have "saveyourmarriage" bookmarked, but havnent' found much use for it)...it seems like "DivorceBusting" and other psych. approaches like that use the "give them enough rope to hang themselves technique"...which might work hand-in-hand with the "Exposure" tactice I've learned here....yes, I do need to IMPROVE myself, and make myself desirable again...but but it takes 2, and and I think I've learned here that one can't just let their spouse run roughshod over them as we take all the heat and blame for getting to the situation we'ere in now.

Want...some people who give advice about this subject have not "lived it". Most folks on here have lived through an affair. There are successes and failures with the approach used here.

I hope you understand my point about her anger over your broken promise regarding spying. I would tell her that you're hiring a PI, because she doesn't DESERVE your trust. It can not be a one way street, trust. She will continue to spew angry statements at you putting you on the defense. It is STANDARD WAYWARD SPOUSE TACTIC!!!! Please don't fall for it...

Stand your ground. Make your point that this is NOT about your betrayal it is about hers. There is no "honor" in this war with her and her OM. She will threaten and may leave an dact betrayed. How you can be where you were last evening and where you are today should show you just how foggy she is....all you have done is speak the truth and act her to do same. How can she think she has a right to be angry about anything....??

All right....after the fireworks end....You're feelings of despair are normal...and will continue for a long ...long time....keep coming here for support...we're here for you...

Well, it seems at least some semblance of rational thinking is winning the day...or at least it appears...(have I seen this before??????)

After taking the kids to the mall, she calls me from cell and asks, what do you want to do for dinner tonight (sunday)? I reply unenthusiastically, "I don't care"....we negotiate and go to small italian family restaurant. I'm sure I look sour...I barely talk to her, barely look at her. She chastises me for not talking to kids either ("aren't you even going to talk to the kids...they didn't do anything...") It wasn't intentional on my part...I was just in such a foul mood.

On the way home, she tells me she is going to need time to "grieve" after giving up the Allman Brothers part of her life (it was a big following thing...akin to the Grateful Dead crowd...that led to the affair in my absence). I'm afraid that she is "giving it all up" and is going to resent me for it, and make herself into a martyr, and feel "boxed in". I tell her that I'm not telling her what to do, I'm not telling her she has to give up anything...but she has to decide and be honest with me.

You might want to convey to her to use her own free will and make a choice she can live with for the rest of her life. If that choice is to work on rebuilding the marriage then so be it. If not, then preparations for divorce should comence ASAP. Again, overemphasize that it is her choice, no one elses's and that you will NOT take responsibility for it if she ends up regreting it later on. The point is for her not to beleive that she can get away with playing the martyr or the poor, misunderstood victim of your 'controlling' ways. She is a grown woman, and she is solely responsible for her choices and the consequences that come from them. Beleive it or not, you will be helping her by reminding her that nobody but her has the power to affect her life for the better.


TMCM

TOOMuchCoffeeMan...

Thanks, what you said is more or less what I tried to say to her 3 or 4 times today. But if it comes up again (I'm sure it will), I will keep your phrasing in mind to help clarify my point.

One of the problems I had with her today during dialogs was the circular reasoning, which was pretty much the same response and reasoning from her when I initially discovered and confronted 3 months ago....I ask her to make a choice. I behave and talk reasonably and rationally, telling her "I can live with either choice...I would prefer to save our marriage, but I will survive if you don't have feelings for me any more and can't get them back."

She has always replied with: "I don't KNOW", "I need time", "I need space"...

Meanwhile, I know that her "decisions" to the above quandries she has posed has always been clouded by presence of OM. I called her on it again today, exposed her, told her I know that it is continuing.

She has promised to send cell phone back to him, cut off all contact, cease extracuricular concert activities (which I know she will make me feel guilty about).

We'll see.

I know her major motivations are:
1) Doesn't want to 'F' up the kids.
2) Doesn't want to lose her comfortable lifestyle
3) Doesn't want to be shamed if this gets out to either of our families.
4) Doesn't want live with regrets.
5) Isn't confident that OM will ever actually "come get her" for real.

The motivation that I need from her, and am not feeling, is that she wants to do this for "US".

Update....it is now late at night....

earlier this afternoon, before taking kids to mall...we were both in bedroom...and in a fit of rage (and maybe because she was also intent on cleaning it out and this is how she normally does it...) she dumps the entire contents of her pocket book out on the floor and says "there! happy?! anything you want to look through??!!!"

I just said calmly, "stop it."

Several hours later, I am in bed watching 6 Feet Under. She is downstairs watching 6 Feet Under. I just checked empty pocket book. Secret cell phone from OM is still in hidden "side zipper pocket" on the inside of pocket book.

She said she was going to send it back. How can I ensure?

Do I yank it out tonight an just take it?

Send is exactly right. She has destroyed your trust and is an untrustworthy person. The next time she accuses you of "not trusting her," explain to her that "of course I don't trust you, you are untrustworthy." That will quickly take the wind out of her sails. There is nothing untrustworthy about you catching her being unfaithful, on the other hand.

Stand your ground. Make your point that this is NOT about your betrayal it is about hers. There is no "honor" in this war with her and her OM. She will threaten and may leave an dact betrayed. How you can be where you were last evening and where you are today should show you just how foggy she is....all you have done is speak the truth and act her to do same. How can she think she has a right to be angry about anything....??

All right....after the fireworks end....You're feelings of despair are normal...and will continue for a long ...long time....keep coming here for support...we're here for you... [/quote]

Want, am I to understand that you have not exposed this affair? Who is this OM?

Want, I just reread your last thread. You HAVE NOT EXPOSED THIS AFFAIR! Why have you not even taken the very first necessary step? This is your most powerful weapon against the affair and you are not using it. Why?

What you are doing is ENABLING the affair by helping them keep their secret. Do you understand that? You are aiding and abetting the detruction of your own marriage. FOR NO REASON. Why?

Background:

My wife began going to Allman Brothers concerts with her girlfriends about 10 years ago without me (even though I am the one who turned them on to the ABB). I became a stick in the mud after marriage and kids, and fell into the tunnel-vision trap robot mantra of "I have family, I have children, I sit home and stare at wall and save money." Ok, I went overkill, and I am to blame for alot of problems in our marriage. I have also been treated for mild depression, but serious enough to have caused problems in marriage.

My wife began to "coorespond" with many different people on the Allman Brothers web site Guest Book. Became "friends" with this guy who live 2,000 miles away. His son was killed in car accident last fall, my wife was unhappy in marriage, they hit it off. Met at Greg Allman concert in January 2005 with other friends. From the best I can gather, they hit it off, and necked in back of theater. Kept EM going via private messages and emails through winter and spring of 2005. He filled her emotional needs that I failed to meet.

His Hepatitis C returned and he had to go back on chemo staring this spring. Treatment continues until Summer/Fall 2006.

It is emotional affair as of now, but they did have plans to meet once or twice this summer...called off because of his inability to travel, fights (in emails!) and my discovery in May.

I understand that he has seperated from his wife once before, they got back together a year or 2 ago...things are not great on their homefront (disagreements, no passion, dead son...)

After D-Day in May, I continued to monitor emails, and saw that they had deep, deep, deep, feelings for each: "soulmates", "meant for each other", "destined", etc., etc.

I also read some very hurtful things over the past 3 months from WW to OM: "I am trying to find the easiest way possible to get out of unhappy marriage", "I don't belong to him, he doesn't belong to me." "Someday we will be together."

All summer long, my WW led me to believe she was coming back to me...but I knew "he" was always there.

I called her on it this morning.

These are terrible suggestions. Why would YOU move out of your own bedroom just because she is having an affair?? And why would you suggest sellng your home and getting apartments? WANT? None of those suggestions are helpful to your situation. I thought you wanted to SAVE your marriage? These suggestions only increase the risk of divorce. Do you want that?

What you should be focused on are ways to SAVE your marriage by ending this affair. So far I have seen you do nothing to towards that end. Sure, confronting your W was a good step, but you must now focus on ENDING THE AFFAIR. Do you understand this?

[quoteAll summer long, my WW led me to believe she was coming back to me...but I knew "he" was always there.

I called her on it this morning. [/quote]

You have NOT exposed this affair. Do you want to save this marriage or not?

Update:

All my lines of surveillance have been cut off.

Got in to work this morning, all passwords on email have been changed. Unless she uses home computer again, I am blind.

She promised to send cell phone back. How can I ensure?

This morning she was indignant. (But she was still wearing her wedding band, which she did NOT do for about 2 months after first D-Day in May). Before we left for work this morning, she:

1) Again accused me of hacking into email (true, but I denied again), and that I better hope she doesn't get fired...asked if that is why she has been having so many computer problems at work. I just denied, denied, denied.

2) Played drama-queen, by stating again that she will give up her whole concert-going with friends lifestyle and just stay home "barefoot in the kitchen."


Also, I forgot to mention yesterday that she said she doesn't want to go to councelling next week this time. She said she thinks she is so screwed up in head that she needs to go see somebody herself. Not quite sure yet how to read this...she has always said things she doesn't mean, but she may be serious about this. If she really doesn't want to go (I'll ask again in a few days to verify), should I just go by myself and tell the shrink what has happened. If I do that, will we ever be able to go back to same guy together?

OK Want...I am keeping my 2x4 in hand...

YOU HAVE NOT EXPOSED THIS AFFAIR!!!! you told HER you know...and she is denying the affair. She changed her passwords...big shocker there..THAT IS BECAUSE SHE HAS NO INTENTIONS OF ENDING HER AFFAIR..she intends on hiding it better.

You're still worried about how she is angry with you for spying. She is a liar and a cheat..end of discussion.

EXPOSE..

You need to take our advice and use it....you will falter, you will be in great despair..we can and will help you but you must...and I mean MUST help yourself first...

good luck and keep us posted...

Oh yeah...some of the folks on your thread are real good..don't "lose 'em"....

I admire your restraint, Send! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />