Well to start off, I’m not new here. Been around for about 6 months now. I started out under a different alias. I had to change things around because my WW found my info and gave it to the OM.

I’m back because I need this site. I need the motivation and inspiration that is given by it’s members. This is my support group right now. I had a brother and sister-in-law that was of tremendous help but they have now moved overseas and communication is a little more difficult. Don’t really have anyone else local.

What I need now is maybe a little guidance from the vets here. I need someone to translate the signs that I see and to tell me what they mean. I’m trying to figure out if I should continue or to throw in the towel. I believe there are several relatives on both sides that feel sad that I am still trying. They feel the marriage is over but I get the feeling that there is still a chance. I love my wife more than anything in the world even after all the pain I have had to endure.

Just a quick rehash on MB principles. The A has been exposed to the fullest extent. Everyone knows in everyone’s family here. That one I took care of real quick. D-Day was in January of this year. I’ve read the books SAA and HNHN.

The problem is the A is still going on. There have been times when they have “broken up” as my WW put it but then they usually get back together after a couple of days. What is really going on here is the OM decides to go home and dumps her. He goes back for a couple of days and then like the coward he is he comes back to my WW. He has it to easy right now. The 2 woman in his life right now don’t seem to be able to stand up for each other. It’s too easy for him to fence sit. I also understand that my WW does not have the will power to break it off. I’ve never seen her like this in my entire life. It is like watching a crack addict. She knows it’s bad and destroying her but she lacks the will power to say no. This guy is an absolute [censored] and he deserves to be knocked out just for the injustice he has done his W since D-day.

Now let me identify her mood swings. They have “broken up” 3 or 4 times now. When they are together my WW seems to show confidence and even a little arrogance from time to time. She talks and acts with me not in the picture. Like I don’t even exist anymore. She plans her future with me not in it. I can see at this point she is absolutely convinced that the OM and her are going to be together forever. It hurts when she is like this because of the feeling of abandonment. I was faithful for 12 years of marriage and always put her first and this is what I get. Now, when they “break up” she becomes down right evil. The last time she started calling me on the phone and calling me every name in the book. She called me a lousy father and told me she hated my guts and that we would never be together although they had broken up. I guess the one good thing here was that I did not commit an LB during this time. Now this mood changes after a couple of days. I can see the depression kick in. This happened the last time about 5 weeks ago. A couple of days after they broke up she called me and asked an odd question that caught me off guard. She asked if I had sex with anyone. Of course I said no. But then the next day the OM came back crying like a little B.

Sometimes I think I can see her mind working and saying “Hey you, you just made a big mistake.” Then the OM comes back. He just won’t quit hopping back and forth. I’m not sure what to do here.

There are other things to consider here. I believe their relationship has not been tested yet. This is when we will find out if they can last. They have not moved in together yet. Each has moved into separate living accommodations. They have not been introduced to the children involved yet. Total of 4 children here. 3 from OM and 1 from mine. The A has been going on for 7 months now. Doesn’t this usually happen by now? Also, the big one I believe is money. Money does make the world go round doesn’t it? He makes very little. If he does decide to leave his wife he will have to pay child support for 3. After taxes he is only going to bring home about $1200 at the most. Not much for where we live. They have broken up a couple of times but continue to get together. It seems when they are together they talk like they will stay together. It scares me.

I guess the questions I have are the same as others. What do you think are the chances? I believe there is still something in her that thinks of me but it is drowned out by the OM. As time moves on will this disappear? You see, if I knew for certain that this would eventually end even after a couple of years I would hold on. I’m just not sure. I wish I could read minds. I’ve dedicated myself to give this a try but am I wasting years of my life here? I know this OM is a [censored] but is he really stupid enough to dump his wife and basically live in poverty. Both the WW and OM make the least in each household. The OMW makes twice as much as he does. They have a nice house too.

I can't tell from reading your post whether you exposed to family only or if you have talked to OMW. If not, why not? More exposure. Continued exposure. Confuse their fantasy lives with reality.

Maybe someone else will come and answer too, but it is the weekend, and this place is slow on weekends.

Exposure is complete. OM, OMW and WW family all know.

TreborRose, I am not an "elder," <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> but I will give you my 2 cents. This situation is LONG overdue for Plan B. Your wife is riding the fence, getting her needs met by 2 men. What woman in her right mind would give that up? You have not only given her no motivation, but you have tolerated her shabby treatment for far too long. Women do not respect men they can run over. And for many, their love is contingent upon the respect they feel.

If it were me, I would go into Plan B, protect my finances, set up a visitation schedule and make it VERY CLEAR that your children are TO NEVER.......I mean NEVER be exposed to her affair partner. Don't ever let them around him unless she has a court order and a big [censored] gun.

The reason your W keeps going back and forth is because she is getting her needs met in 2 places. While it may not seem you are meeting any needs, it gives her a sense of security having you on the sidelines. As long as you continue to do that, you prevent her from ever learning that OM cannot meet all of her needs. You are essentially enabling the affair, TR. When you go into Plan B, it is a shock to the WS that can often pull them off the fence. It also gives you a chance to detach so you can think more clearly when removed from the daily abuse and pain.

Read the link in my signature about Plan B and read up on it in Surviving an Affair.

Is this a workplace affair?

It is a workplace affair. On plan B, I will not be able to have a go between because I have no one local. Other than that I can follow the plan.

Here is the only question I have on plan B. When they "break up" it is him dumping her. She has never come back to me on her own free will. So I don't know if this is considered "Fence sitting". I believe that if he were to ask her to marry him she just might. When they do break up though she does ask probing questions, such as, have I had sex with anyone yet? Does this facilitate a plan B move?

TreborRose, what do they do for a living? What is his position and what is hers?

How old are your children?

You don't need a go-between to do Plan B. It makes things easier, but its not impossible without one. Am not sure I understand your question about him dumping her. She always comes back to you of her own free will; no one forces her to do that.

He is in shipping for the same company and she is in purchasing.

My child is 6 and Om's is 7, 4, and 2.

What I mean about him dumping her is that he always ends the relationship. She doesn't end it. She really doesn't come back. She asks questions that lead me to believe that she might.

What is their company policy about fraternization? The reason I am asking is that I think it might be helpful to expose them at work. At the very least, it would certainly cause them some great embarrassment which would contribute to the dissolution of the fantasy.

I would start working on the Plan B letter and include in it, a detailed visitation schedule along with the stipulation that she never take your child around the OM.

Do you have full custody of your child now? What are the arrangements?

You would also want to ensure that your finances are secure frm her possible plunder. Stop paying any of her bills if you are currently doing so and cancel any credit cards which have both your names on them.

I have custody of my child for the most part but she comes by and he goes to visit her here and there.

On the financial end everything is taken care of. No credit cards together and I do not pay her bills. She is in her own apartment.

ok, that sounds great. I would expose her first at work with a letter to Human Resources and perhaps his boss. Tell them that this affair is breaking up your marriage and ask them what they intend to do to help. You might want to follow up with a phone call to HR to make sure they got it.

Secondly, I would strongly consider going into Plan B. Accompanied with your Plan B letter, you could include a visitation schedule along with a request that she not come in your house at pick ups and to only contact you in an emergency. Any visitation changes could be made via voice mail, but are strongly discouraged. When you go into Plan B, you don't want her to come in the house at all, so get the locks changed. Many WS try to come in the house so they can get a home "fix," you can't allow that to happen.

I guess in a way I have already started. Locks were changed weeks ago. Just haven't implemented NC.

Problem with HR at her work though. It could affect my job as well. hard to explain but it could jeopardize my companies revenue. I will start evaluating how I will implement plan B.

TR, here are some sample Plan B letters. I have found the shorter the letter, the better. Some of these are way too long and way too sentimental. I think short, concise and not too sappy, is the best format for a letter that is going to an emotionally detached WS.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=019428#000000

Thanks ML.

TR, would you please post your letter here before you send it and let us give you feedback? Some here are very good at writing these letters and it will be important to make it as effective as possible.

Melody has given you some good advice.

If you are going to do Plan B, then you should do it 100%. If you do anything else, you are just prolonging the agony.

The sad reality is that not all Ms recover from an A. If yours is one that doesn't recover, then you have to protect yourself and start moving on with your life.

Ok. I'll do that.

But can anyone answer the questions I had in the last paragraph of my original post?

TR, we can only speculate, but I would wager that the affair won't last. There are no guarantees but I think your best bet is Plan B. I should emphasize that the purpose of Plan B is for you to detach from the insanity, but a common side benefit is that it can pull the WS off the fence. It will be tough in the initial couple of weeks, but after that you will feel a peace you haven't felt in some time. You will be much better equipped to deal with the situation if you are detached, though, if it ever moves to divorce.

And I think you are right, I doubt that the OM will leave his meal ticket for your W. If you cut off all comm with your W, the OM will be expected to meet her needs. She will quickly find out that he can't and won't. That will likely destroy the affair.

And you should be prepared for her probably reaction when you go into Plan B. See, she has been in control of you all this time. She won't like it that you are taking back control of your life and will try and do anything and everything to get you to break your Plan B. It will make her very uncomfortable to not have you on the farm anymore. Just be prepared for this and don't allow her to get you to break your word. If you do that, then you destroy all of your remaining leverage. Does that make sense?

To answer your question:

There is no way to know if you and WS will reunite.

An A is caused by problems in the M. (I'm not blaming you--the problems almost always come from the WS.) An A is a symptom, not the disease. Therefore, simply because the A ends does not mean the M will survive.

As to OP and WS: Generally, the A doesn't last. The WS and OP are living in a fantasy world. When forced to live together 24x7 and they deal with the real world, WS and OP rarely can adjust, and the relationship falls apart. I believe the statistics show that if WS and OP do M, most end in divorce in about 2 years. A few Ms between WS and OP do work.

TreborRose - You asked a few things in your beginning post, so for clarity let me quote from the concluding paragraph and then respond to it.



The "chances" are "better than even" that the affair will end and your wife will be "missing" you. The chances that your marriage can recover are also "better than even," but that is almost entirely in YOUR control, not your wife's.

That is the "hard part" that you have yet to face and deal with.



There is likely "little" of you that she thinks about. It's not part of the "Fog of the Affair." If she were to allow herself to "think of you" she would likely NOT be able to handle it. Most women are "one man" women and can't give their emotions to two men simultaneously. The "first thing to go" is usually sex. Since sex is deeply involved with most women's emotional state, they "can't" make love to someone they don't think that they "love." Hence the oft "famous" line that many BS's (if not all) get to hear, "I love you, but I'm not 'in-love' with you." Ya, and I love my pet too...but I'm not marrying it and I'm not taking it to bed!

I know.....but it makes some sort of "sense" to the WS as they continue to justfiy ADULTERY, which is "frowned upon" even by an "enlightened" American society. She KNOWS it's wrong and has to isolate her emotions about you and your child or the "wrongness" of an affair will begin to breaK down her fantasy and excuses.

What I don't know is how long this has been going on for you. YOU can "wait" as long as you CHOOSE, but waiting alone will NOT end the affair. You must do things to "Force Reality" to impinge upon the affair in the hope that it will destablize and she may begin to see what she is really doing.

I would say that the "key" issue right now is that she has her own apartment. That is her little "love nest" and another way to keep you and your child out of her emotion fogged brain. That is also a separation and/or abandonment.

See an attorney and make the separation legal and formal. Depending upon what State you live in, some require a separation prior to divorce. In my State the timeframe is 1 year before you can divorce. My wife got her apartment in secret as the "final step" before filing for divorce to be with her OM (her affair was 6 years long). So now you must take practical steps to protect both you and your child, no matter what your wife chooses to do.



Yes, they are both "stupid enough." That "stupidity" does define a trip into adultery, doesn't it? You don't really think that they are thinking "clearly and rationallly," do you?

So the answer to whether or not you could be "wasting years of my life here" is yes. You "could be." ONLY you can decide if you love your wife, despite all that she has done. ONLY you can decide that you could forgive her for the pain and suffering she has inflicted. ONLY you can decide if you can "live with" the memories. ONLY you can decide if the destroyed wedding vow of "Forsaking ALL others, for better or for worse, etc." can be rebuilt and steps put in place to "affair proof" a future together with her.

There are many questions, and if you are at all like most of us (BS's) the road to recovery will be rocky and difficult at times. There may well be several times along the way that you emotionally just want to "throw in the towel." But that, too, is PART of recovery and it requires YOU to have a firm commitment, based in love, to "see it through to the end no matter how hard it is," even while simultaneously KNOWING that there even with all the effort, patience, and edurance that you can muster....there ARE NO guarantees in life. But that, after all, is what defines marriage anyway....no "guarantees," just a self-sacrifing love for another...and all that "self-sacrifincing" entails.

For me, the "key" is Boundaries and Standards. I choose to embrace God's Boundaries and Standards, as did my wife (since we were both Christians). So the real issue is NOT submitting to you (either the husband or the wife). For me, and for Christians, the real issue is submitting to God.

I don't know what part, if any, God plays in your lives, but you will still have to decide WHAT Boundaries and Standards and WHY they should be virtually the same for both of you. Without a "common set" of Boundaries and Standards, what would define "acceptable behavior" in the future?

So, here are the beginning steps that, in my opinion, you should address:

1. See an attorney and get formal separation (pre-divorce) papers drawn up and served.

2. Concurrent with the serving of the papers, implement a STRICT Plan B. The OM can "waffle" back an forth all he wants, but your wife will be left with the reality that she is CHOOSING to abandon your family and YOU "really are" moving on with your life in RESPONSE TO to her actions. SHE CHOSE, you are "accepting" her choice. You will "leave the light on" for a while, but once the pain of divorce has been gone through, you will leave her in your past and to her choices for her life. Yes, it may seem "harsh," perhaps even "callous and cruel," but a "confrontation" is needed from what you have posted or her waffling and lack of commitment to you and your marriage will continue, either with this OM or with another who might come along to what she thinks will "meet some of her perceived needs."

3. YOU need to decide if you are ready and willing to undertake a very difficult task...that of recovering your marrriage with a currently unrepentant wife. This WILL be largely dependant upon whether or not you truly and deeply love your wife and how committed YOU are to your own marital vows. YOU can only "be true to thine own self," and ATTEMPT to recover your marriage, but if your wife remains unrepentant, then you may have to build a future without her as part of it. The "when" you have to make such a choice is up to you.

Don't underestimate this "task" of Recovery. It will ask a lot from you and can be very difficult. Unlike a WS who has ended their affair, YOU will be seen as a "monster" who is trying to force her to "give up things" and as being "very selfish" for not wanting to share her with others. I have been in recovery for 3 years, and am basically recovered, but we are not "Recovered" yet. There still remains baggage, so a commitment to the proverbial "long haul" is what YOU must be prepared to commit to. If not prepared to do that, then consider sparing your child the added trauma of "mom and dad" appearing to get back together but the fighting and eventually divorcing anyway.

Boundaries and Standards. What and Whose and Why desirable and applicable to both of you? If you are going to "go the recovery route," then first answer those questions so you will have a firm guide throughout the ordeal.

God bless.