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Joined: Jan 2005
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It's been a few months since my last post. We have been having steady visitations with OC for the last seven months and for the most part things have gone very smoothly.

However, OW is still driving us crazy. Visitation is legal, my H pays CS on time, the only thing he asks is that they keep their dealings with eachother to an absolute minimum. OW is still trying to concoct ways for them to have to deal with eachother face to face or over the phone.

We have a notebook that travels between households with OC for communication between my H and OW, but OW confiscated it several weeks ago and we just got it back this past weekend - after my H bugged OW about repeatedly.

She continues to call the house constantly, leaving messages that run up to seven minutes on our voicemail filled with redundant information.

This last episode was very trying for my H and I. OW called last week regarding OC's first day of school. It is on a day that my H normally takes OC to school. OW wanted to take OC to school that day, so my H agreed to drop OC off with her the night before, but he wanted to pick OC up from school that day and drop her off with OW. OW balked at the idea. In fact, she tried desperately to get my H to agree to take OC to school together that morning - TOGETHER! Are you kidding me? They can barely speak on the phone without arguing and hanging up on eachother, and OW wants them to add to OC's overwhelming first day of kindergarten with that kind of tension?! I don't understand it. My H refused. OW got very angry and told my H that dealing with OC meant dealing with her. My H calmly told her that no where in the books of family law does it say that he has to talk to her, like her, or want to deal with her at all.

OW proceeded to tell my H that OC is not adjusting well to the visitation schedule, she wanted to change it. After all her arguments with my H about consistency, we finally get a visitation order and she wants to change it. But, here's the kicker: OW wanted OC to stay with us for four consecutive overnights every other weekend....now how is that going to help OC adjust? Going from two overnights every other weekend to four?! Outrageous. My H said he'd think about it.

My H suggested that they have OC evaluated by a mental health professional to help them figure out why she's having such a hard time adjusting. OC doesn't exhibit mal-adjustment issues at our house, but OW says OC throws a fit on our scheduled visitation days and just generally gives her a hard time about it and doesn't want to come. OW agreed, but wanted the evaluating professional to be through OC's preschool program. My H made an appointment, they had a meeting last Thursday. The mental health professional was supposed to be an objective third party, but come to find out during the meeting, the OW goes to a group with this woman twice a week and they are quite friendly. They even stepped out to smoke a cigarette together before the meeting.

To make a long story short, the meeting became less and less about OC's adjustment and more like a therapy session for OW and her relationship with my H. I know that OW has taken great pains to keep the exact details of their relationship secret, and I suspect everyone in her circle believes that she and my H were exclusive ant at one time quite taken with and serious about eachother. Anyway, the "professional" was trying to get OW to talk about her feelings and explain to my H why she was so hurt by him. Meanwhile, my H continues to try to redirect the conversation to OC's issues but keeps getting pulled back to OW's issues by said "mental health expert".

Here's what the expert came up with: OC will not follow directions by OW because my H refuses to co-parent closely with her. OC will not follow bedtime routines at OW's house because my H is not closely involved with OW. OC has difficulty learning because my H refuses to talk with OW on daily basis. OC refuses to eat her veggies because of my H's lack of affection for OW. OC appears lethargic and disinterested because of my H's lack of interest in OW. Her overall tone was that my H was a deadbeat dad and all of OC's "adjustment issues" at OW's house are directly related to my H not being with OW and that my H needs to change our schedules and parenting techniques to more closely match those of OW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

BULL!! I can't believe it.

OW was bawling the entire time and looking at my H with big, wet puppy dog eyes. He got angry that they weren't dealing with OC issues, and OW continued to bawl. At one point the therapist was coddling OW, saying "Why do you have so much guilt? You are a good parent, don't feel like a bad parent simply because you're a single mom. You went to school, worked (crap - TANF supported her through school, which my H ultimately had to pay for) and raised your daughter without anyones's help. You are a good mom." Then the same therapist turned to my H and said "You need to do more than just deal with OW, she is the mother of your child!" Chastised him like he was a child. The meeting lasted two hours and nothing came of it.

They are scheduled to have another meeting this Thursday to change the visitation paperwork (my H agreed to every Friday night and Friday - Sat every other weekend with a longer summer visit and a visit during Spring Break). They are also supposed to try working out OC issues again with same "professional". My H was completely deflated last time. He felt tag teamed.

Mental Health Expert didn't say anything to OW about OC never getting enough sleep while with her, or the fact that OW and OC eat out at fast food joints constantly, or the fact that OW never disciplines OC for anything (OC runs the coop). Not one word about OC's overtly sexual and inappropriate behavior, OW's completely trashed house - a 2 bdrm apt she shares with her 22 yr old brother and her mom, or the fact that OW dresses OC (4 yrs.) in sexually suggestive clothing. The whole thing is just nauseating and I hate it.

We feel like we're at the end of our rope here, it seems like we're the only one's that truly have OC's best interests at heart. Even the so-called professional was fixated on trying to get my H and OW to be "friendly".

Am I seeing this wrong? The meeting seemed to get them nowhere, and the professional was decidedly unprofessional and not in any way concerned with the actual facts of the situation.

Meanwhile, OC continues to walk all over OW while OW blames my H for it. OC doesn't misbehave at our home, all of her adjustment issues are seen in the home of OW. What are we doing wrong?

Any suggestions?


M'd 6 yrs, recovering 3 years Me: 27 H: 25 My DS: 10y Ours: DD:5y DS:3y His OC(DD):4y ************ Still taking it one day at a time FAITHFULLY. ************ While constructive criticism is appreciated - if you can't say it nicely, DON'T SAY IT!
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1. Find out who has licensed this "professional" and contact them, with an attorney and turn her in for her unprofessionalism. Contact every agency you need to, to report this. This is totally illegal.

2. DO NOT go back to this person. This person is working with OW and like OW, could care less about oc, except for a pawn.

3. Contact your attorney and let them know what is going on. Ask the courts for assistance. NEVER EVER LET AN OW MAKE ANY APPOINTMENT THAT INCLUDES YOU OR YOUR H EVER. She set your husband up. Hve the court appoint someone who will be objective.

Or, you could have your husband and the sleaze come and see me!! I will be the counselor here. "ok, mzz ow, you need to fill out the book, quit calling this man, as he obviously sees you as a mistake, and has no respect for you, if you wanted to "coparent" a child and walk into school together, mayhaps you should have not gotten knocked up by a man who has no interest in you. Take your kid to school, shut up, grow up and deal with the situation that you only have yourself to blame. So either deal with the mess you have helped create, or hand your child over to it's father and his wife, as they seem to be the only ones who seem to care about the child."



4. If she is having such a difficult time raising this child, maybe it would be best if sole custody was awarded to the father here. It is quite obvious that she is unable to do so. Check into that.

DO NOT SIT AROUND FEELING BAD. Be proactive. Do not let this manipulative woman get away with this. Also, the most important thing is to have the "counselor" checked out. Something is wrong there. She needs to be removed from her position, she is a danger to others if she is playing games with peoples lives.

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ummmmmmmm, your h being her bio-father can request and get a 2nd opinion. I've always thought that when it comes to counseling and doctors etc. that friends should not be involved.

I would say she is to personally ivolved.

I would also say too, that he does need to get along with her for the sake of the oc. That does not mean dinners, and long talks about the wheather or whatever.

Just being consderate versus on edge and acting out his stress towards her.

Whatever problems she has with him and her feelings towards him needs to be addressed with her IC. Not a child C. At some point we all have to move on kwim?

I personally don't know about this counsler. I'm sure that she is good, but when you mix in personal emotions due to friendships it can override her constructive outlook on the situation.

Good luck with this though.


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Lynn: Good advice, my H contacted the mental health professional at our daughter's preschool and has asked her to sit in on the next meeting. He also spoke with the director of the program and reported the OC's counselor for her unprofessionalism. Director said she has received similar complaints about this woman before so we'll see how that plays out.

We do not have an attorney. We've have gotten this far on our own wits and cannot really afford an attorney. We're hoping that with some perserverence on our parts the school system may be able to help us out.

The problem is, we are both reluctant to point a finger at the OW, we do not want a mud-slinging match and certainly don't wish to drag her through court unless it's absolutely unavoidable.

We have considered calling CPS for a well-check.....we'd want CPS to come to our home as well for comparison. The idea scares us. The situation is so precarious as it is, it seems like whatever we do, it's only going to get worse from here.

Everytime OW calls my home, badgers and upsets my H, upsets my children or our family routines my blood boils. I actually told my H the other day that OW is the only part of our marriage that makes me want a divorce. I don't know how much longer I can deal with this crap. I don't know how much more stress we can handle.

When is enough enough?

Needtomoveon: My H can be very civil, and tries conversing with OW every time she calls. But, if things don't go exactly the way she thinks they should, she begins screaming and crying and twists everything into how he won't "co-parent". Her idea of co-parenting is centered around them hashing out every detail of OC's life face to face, which my H is not willing to do.

The notebook is supposed to give them both an opportunity to say exactly what they want to say without having to deal with an emotional reaction. It takes out the possibility of impulsive, emotional responses to eachother. But OW wants to maintain control over every little detail and refuses to compromise.

Sometimes I feel OW is simply acting out to hurt my H, me, and our family unit. She contradicts herself so much that it's impossible to know what she's really after.

We're going to seek a second opinion and get OC to a completely objective professional with her best interests at heart.

But, I wish there was a clear-cut strategy that would minimalize the emotional damage to all of us.

Advice and suggestions appreciated.


M'd 6 yrs, recovering 3 years Me: 27 H: 25 My DS: 10y Ours: DD:5y DS:3y His OC(DD):4y ************ Still taking it one day at a time FAITHFULLY. ************ While constructive criticism is appreciated - if you can't say it nicely, DON'T SAY IT!
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Have you guys been to court at all? Do you have any proof of the antics ow has done? I can understand the whole doing it yourself thing, which I'm doing myself and trust me on this one if you do your homework, you can be your best adovact in this.
The note is a great idea. It can serve a couple of purposes. If you have a copy machine, I'd copy every page in it. Plus it's in writing and there are no misunderstandings.

No it's not good disrupting the family. I am glad that you are getting a second opinion as well. Funny that this is not the first complaint on this lady too. hmmmmmm.

I wish you luck on this. I'm sure your h's actions will speak louder than words kwim?


Aka Marysway
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Wow that lady is not objective at all. Its like she and OW had some kind of script and she just followed it.

I would let the therapist/counselor know that the resulted OC was not from a relationship just adultery. This way the ow will be put in her place. If she cannot handle the OC GUESS what there are parenting classes she should take all my her lonesome self. If the child thrives while with you and your husband then the obvious problem (ow) should be fixed and it is not your concern if she does not listen over there only when you and your family are caring for the child.

I was going to suggest you go with your husband next time. I would really like to see you change counselors to another one NOT employed by the facility that the oc attends.

Keep us updated I really would like to see how this turns out.


ALL OW DON'T RESPOND OR COMMENT ON ANYTHING I POST EVER. I'M NOT HERE TO SPEAK TO U! I am here to speak to other BSs that Can relate to my situation and OUR shared experiences. I COULD CARE LESS WHAT ANY OW HAS TO SAY ABOUT ANYTHING, EVER!
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What about having things go through a third party? That way you don't have to see ow at all, or even speak to her. Maybe you could arrange things through a church?

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Needtomoveon: Yes, we have a court-ordered visitation and custody agreement, we have documented everything over the last four years, but have kept it out of the courts and will continue to do so unless OW doesn't follow the court orders. It's our secret weapon so to speak, and we don't want to have to go there unless there's no other choice.

Cordelia: I am leaving it up to my H as to whether or not he's going to "out" the exact nature of their relationship. He's really embarassed about it and riddled with regret all around. I think as long as OW doesn't pull anything outlandish at this next meeting he'll let her play the game however she wants. As much as I'd like the entire world to know, especially those in OW's circle - it's not really my choice.

Lynn: we aren't really affliated with any organizations that would be willing to do this for us. However, the HeadStart program has been mediating a little so far. They (OW, H, and previous counselor) are scheduled to have another meeting this afternoon. My H is hoping to bring the director of the program for our district with him to act as his advocate, considering OW's objective third-party was anything but.

Keep your fingers crossed for me, folks. I hope today's little therapy session goes smoother for my H than the last one.

And for heaven's sake, I'd like to see someone other than my H fighting for that little girl!!!


M'd 6 yrs, recovering 3 years Me: 27 H: 25 My DS: 10y Ours: DD:5y DS:3y His OC(DD):4y ************ Still taking it one day at a time FAITHFULLY. ************ While constructive criticism is appreciated - if you can't say it nicely, DON'T SAY IT!

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