Lynn says:
Mary, I find it amusing that you are all offended by the word "*******" Yet you have no qualms about having a child with a married man?? You state how "most" people have a hard time with the word "*******" which I do agree with. But your views of what most people think seem twisted. A "word" is wrong, offensive, etc. But being an ow, getting pregnant and then forcing a family to deal with the mistake is all ok???? Seems hypocritical.


Well Lynn your amussed easily. I'm a mother first. Someone calling my child or even a child in her situation that word is unaccaptable and uncalled for. It's pure hate! As I recall more Bw's were posting how it insulted them more than ow's.

As far as your statement about me twisting......Lynn you come on here, and see my post and twist everyword there is in it, even if it's Hi how are you. I'm not the only one who has picked up on that either. It's sad, but some are afraid to confront you as you are so harsh.

I use to be an ow. I'm no longer an ow. Yes I got pregnant by a mm. But guess what, the sperm fairy did not insert his sperm in me one night while I was asleep. It took two to get pregnant and just because I choose to keep my flesh and blood is no excuse for your statement. IF so your husband is a hypricrit as well. But I don't think you think he is. I have heard you encourage the bw's work at through this with there uh. I agree. I've seen these situations make a marriage stronger and healther through this. So are all these BS staying married to a hypricit us? I don't think so. Your husband made a mistake. You forgave him which is great. You have had a great life with him and your family. You are now celebrating not having to pay any more cs. Even went on a vacation to celebrate. IT's all behind you now. That is great! You were able to do it together and survive it! I am positive there are many couples on here that will be able to do the same thing.

I took responsiblty for my actions. Just because I refused to kill my child or give her away is no reason for the mm to feel he owes that child nothing. He helped create that child. It's just the way it is. Just as the ow has prices to pay, so does the mm. You choose to stay married to him and therefore you choose to accept what has happened and work through it with him. No one says it has to be with a smile, but you blame EVERY ow for all the actions on these situations. YOU Lynn put them all in one catagory.

If you say that all ow's are out to get the mm and can't stand the fact that the mm stays with his family and wants nothing to do with oc, so therefore they are vendictive and trouble makers. Okay, your husband played a part of that, so is he too not a trouble maker and scorned for life too? I don't think so.

I have met many ow's and bw's through this ordeal. The majority of them are all hurt and know what is what. I have taken my part in the blame Lynn. Karma is a *****. I've paid my price for my sins and it's over. Why should mm not have to pay for his sins too, and I'm not talking about having to just deal with his wife on this. You think that just because a ow seeks out cs they want your husband's. That is pretty far from the truth. Maybe there are a some out there, but not many. What we all have gone through are hard lessons (that we brought on ourself's) to learn. And yes alot of people got hurt during the fact. The mm is no different or any less to blame than the ow. Plane and simple.

As far as cs goes Lynn, your stitch was over 18 years ago. A lot of laws have changed. Ironicly, xmm tired what you did get away with, and he got caught. If it wern't for me compromising with him he would have been in major trouble with not only family court, but crimanal court. His wife too have the same type of work and they tried, but as I said laws have changed in the last 10 years. I would really hate to see someone take your advise and get into trouble over it. There are truely mm's and his family that are suffering finaincilly and there are laws to protect them as well. Yes, there are some people (ow/bw/mm/single people/divorcing people) that play games. So I'm not saying that all ow's are less than nice. It goes both ways though.

What irritates me about you is that you lump fow/ow all in one pocket and go with it. It's insulting and far from the truth. Your words are OW's do this and OW's do that. They all do it. It's a lie Lynn.

Your reason for coming back here is because some people had some problems with the "B" word? I don't buy it. You'll take care of the ow's here? If I remember right anybody trying to go through this and NOT putting down the MB principles are welcome here.

I agree with some of what you say. Get a lawyer get it all legalized through the court. I'm just don't have much tolerance when I hear you bragging about leaving your oc a dollar or hiding your assests etc. It was purley done to screw the oc over. For no other reason, and I feel that is very wrong. Worse than the affair that YOUR HUSBNAND took part in.

You know it's funny that today you are the second person that called me a hpyricrit. Over on the other board I was called the same thing by a poster because I show emphtacy for bw's and are nice to them. The thing is I don't change my views anywhere I go.

I think you are the one who twists. I have stated over and over and over again to do things legally. Where on earth is that bad advice?

My response was directed to you being offended of what a BS has said...the word *******. You pontificate on how awfull and hurtfull that is, and play the holier then thou card as wonder mother. How on earth did the word ******* become the issue on her thread? Not to mention that she has clearly stated that she wants no input from any ow.

That said, I find it quite offensive that anyone would take the words of a BS, hurting and angry, and tell her that her THOUGHTS are wrong, and then act high and mighty about just how wrong it is, and how innocent the oc is, yada yada yada. This is not a place for that. This is a marriage building site. And if a wife is on here, rebuilding her marriage, and lets loose on what her thoughts are, where is it necessary to jump on one word?

In her family, the word ******* is used. What business is that of yours? Who are you to sit and judge HER and HER family? I DO find it amusing that you get all high and mighty and full of indidgnation if someone uses a word that YOU don't like. How nobody better call your child that, etc. Nobody did call your child anything. Yet you come and scold her for using a word. Well that is offensive, at least to me it is.

As for the law. YOU are wrong. A man who fathers a child does not have to leave that child one red cent. PERIOD. The oc would get Social Security, but if that man clearly stated in his will to NOT leave that child a thing, that is legal. He can leave his estate to anyone, anyway he chooses. This is why I always state to these people to get a good attorney. ALWAYS.

People are afraid of me???????? LMAO. Who is afraid of me? I have never reached out from anyones screen and punched them in the nose, as far as I can recall. I have never told anyone what the have to do, or have to feel or have to think. I doubt very much anyone is afraid of me. Maybe ow and their supporters may not like what I have to say. Maybe my total support for the betrayed spouse and the children of the marriage makes some ow types wince. Maybe it makes some wince when I applaud people to go no contact and to move on. But scare people? I do not go behind anyones back and wreck havoc in their lives. I believe that everyone gets a piece of the hurt pie, oc included and the only ones to blame are the two who created the mess. If those who created the mess don't like the reactions and the words of those they hurt, then to bad. They brought this on themselves.

Cordella, with your high risk and all I know you don't need the emails and such. For that I am sorry. I know what it's like to have a high risk pregnancy. It's not fun and full of worry.

As far as the other thing. Okay your family finds it acceptable. MOST don't though. It's a word that is dirty. Even today as mad as I get at xmm for some things that he's done and LIED about I would never even think to call him that not even out of anger, and he was too born out of wedlock and from an affair. Luckily he was adopted by a great set of parents.

I'm sorry that you can't understand why it insults so many people everytime you refer to that. My child is far from that word. Will never be that word. No matter how she came into this world. NOT all ow are the same cordella. and ALL the children bc, oc included are all innocent in these situations and they are ALL gifts from GOD!

--------------------
Aka Marysway


Please so show me where I was hollier than thou and got my panties in a wad with this post to Cordella.
Nor was I offensive to her. My one little post versus many others that were insulted by it.

Please Lynn, woman to woman I am asking you to re read my post and see what I wrote verus seeing an OW/xow writing it, and repsonsd again.

Wonder mother? LOL. Well I try....don't we all? I've made mistakes Lynn, and again I've paid my price for them. I try to be wonder mom because it's my responsiblity too be that. With or without there father in the picture.

HOllier than thou........now if that is true, I would have never found myself in the position I was in and made the mistake I made now would I?

If you read my post correctly, I agreed with you 100% about doing everything legal. I am right with you on that one. But you seemed to think my post said otherwise, why?

---------------------
Aka Marysway

I find this argument that is repeated OVER and OVER to be SO stupid! You know, I was with my DD at her Jump Start program for beginning middle school and the assistant principal was talking about certain things that they aren't allowed to wear on their clothes, or a certain color and such. Here's what I got out of all that. Kids are NOT allowed to wear the 8 ball on their clothing anywhere. Now, to someone who doesn't know, there is NOTHING wrong with the 8 ball. It certainly had NO symbolizim(sp) when I was growing up. But today it is a symbol of a certain gang! They can't wear all the same color of ANY color. Even white. Why, because some gang has chosen that color to be THEIR color. What I'm getting at here is how the world interprets things in the way they want! They take something completely natural or normal and make it something to get you killed over!

The same thing has happened with words. How many times has the B*****d word been looked up and defined here on this board. The original meaning of the word is a child born OUT OF WEDLOCK . But, the world has attached the other definitions to the word that everyone finds so offensive.

I agree with Lynn in that Cordellia is using the word in the way that her family does. Not in a degrading manner, but in the way the word was originally used. When someone is venting, especially someone who has a hard time, and has specifically asked for ANY OW to NOT reply, why not respect her wishes? By replying, no matter how nice you are being, she takes offense, since she's already asked you NOT to reply. You see what I'm saying? Heck, I don't reply because I could be technically considered the xow by her. I do not wish to upset her in her pain. I do not take offence, I try to respect her wishes. And, you know, in a way, by you NOT respecting her wishes, and replying to her thread, you are confirming her opinion about OW in general.

I know, this board is open to anyone who wishes to post, as long as they follow the board rules, and I have not seen you break those rules, but you are disrespecting another's wishes, and that is posibly what is being considered you being "Holier than thou". Just my take on it, as I see it.

Tiger this post was not to start a board war and I don't want it to be. In fact if it turns out to be, I will ask for it to be deleted. Good point on Cordella. I do see your point. And your right I should not have posted to her regardless if it was helpful or not.

But really my point to Lynn was just a small part of that. The only reason I quoted myself to her was to show her I was not insulting to her. I could have said the same exact thing as you did word for word and because of how she feels about me, Your post would have been praised and mine would have been picked apart as in the past.

If you read my post to her. I don't think your consider an xow though. But, you have rebuilt your marriage even with the mistakes that happened right? You are not scorned for life and you have the proof in the pudding with how you grew and learned from what you did. It was a huge price to pay as well from your mistakes. But you with the help of your husband I'm sure (since your still married) got past it!

Let me ask you something tigger. Do you consider yourself a good person? Do try your hardest everyday to become better than yesterday and work on things that need to be worked on? Are you able to forgive yourself for the affair? All of that is part of healing. In reality, you were not worse or better than I was having an affair even though I did not have a husband at home right? But do you consider yourself that same person you were back then?

Actually...**I** was the one who pointed out the disgrace of using the word B******! I find it humiliating and just shameful to call an innocent child that name.

I also believe in NC...HOWEVER, Lyn and cordelia, you guys are missing the point here. You are putting ALL the blame on the OW!

YOUR HUSBANDS are the ones who went outside the marriage and brought the OW into your marriage. YOUR husbands are the ones who crossed the line. NOT the OW...The OW is reacting NATURALLY as ANY woman would in a situation as this.

I look back at when I had my first son...how wonderful it was to have my H there at all the DR visits and the birth and coming home and there with me night and day. Then I think of being in a situation as the OW was in and I cringe. THAT is not the way a woman wants to bring her child into the world..

OK, so, yea, SHE chose to have the baby! Yea, my H says that to me all the freakin time. "she got herself pregnant...she chose the have the baby...I didnt' want it"

oh yea, and did she hold a gun to your head when you stuck your penis in her?

Come on people! Stop with the nonesense of blaming the OW for your H actions. HE is the one who got her pregnant.

That sperm got into her body somehow, and I dont think it was the sperm fairy as NTMO says! LOL!

Mary, you and I have always had lively conversation, I don't see it as a war of any type.

As for me lumping all ow together, nope. You show me one ow who does not toy with child support, and who actually gets it, when the family wants no contact, and takes their share of the blame for thier childs lot in life, and I wont harp on her.

You say "...I am sorry why you can't understand why it insults so many...." And you don't find that condenscending and judgemental? How would you like it if I said "well I'm sorry that you can't undertand why so many are insulted by your low morals...." What is the difference? You are wrong to judge her on a word, as if that is the worse thing that has happend. Isn't that a little like walking up to a train wreck and seeing the carnage of bodies all around, the devastation and then crying and having a fit about a broken heel on a shoe?

Where on earth do I put ALL the blame on the ow? That is completely wrong. But it is also a well used, well oiled excuse also. My husband paid dearly. But since he has proven by words and actions to us and how he handled the oc situation, we were able to move on. It was OW own stupid actions, and constant harrassment that has her with leins agianst her home, and OFP/RO against her. She is the psycho who wouldn't let things go. She is the one who would send photos to the grandparents, who were sickend by the situation and had to get legal protection from her also. How is her irrational, self serving behavior, and the resulting legal mess she finds herself in suddenly be me blaming her?? Rather simplistic.

Do we have to preface everything we write and explain how are husbands paid for it? I shouldn't think so. It should be a given. So, no I don't ONLY blame the ow. She is however held to the law, just like we were.

`````Mary, you and I have always had lively conversation, I don't see it as a war of any type.

NTMO: I agree,but apprently others do, honestly you & I have created a few board wars together.

`````As for me lumping all ow together, nope. You show me one ow who does not toy with child support, and who actually gets it, when the family wants no contact, and takes their share of the blame for thier childs lot in life, and I wont harp on her.

NTMO: What do you mean by toy with cs? If you mean not ask for it, then I'd say the ones that "don't" ask for it ARE the ones that still want your husbands as what I've seen on the boards. As well, I know plenty of ow's that share their childs lot in life. Everyone harps Lynn. YOu harp I harp, we all harp. We are human. When you start dealing with delicates as your children ON BOTH SIDES, of course your going to harp. It's not like we are trying to support our dog or cat. I know several that "get it" that the mm's family does not want contact. Me being one of them. My personal opinion is it's there loss, but that is not what would be YOURS or maybe other's personal opinion. That is why it's an opinion

```````You say "...I am sorry why you can't understand why it insults so many...." And you don't find that condenscending and judgemental? How would you like it if I said "well I'm sorry that you can't undertand why so many are insulted by your low morals...." What is the difference? You are wrong to judge her on a word, as if that is the worse thing that has happend.

NTMO: First of all I gave my opinion (did you see mom's post?). I did not Judge her or anything else. As far as my morals are apprently you don't get what I'm saying. My morals are just fine. I had a lapse in it for 13 months, but that is gone and done with, just like your husband. Kwim? So yes Lynn you ARE judging me and telling me about what my persona is and if you'd like I'd be more than happy to show you quote after quote where you lump all ow's together.

````````Isn't that a little like walking up to a train wreck and seeing the carnage of bodies all around, the devastation and then crying and having a fit about a broken heel on a shoe?

NTMO: Uh, bad example Lynn. As really you went on my post only and gave yourself an opportunty to run your mouth on me and insult me because I am an ow. Why did you not write to Mom, or lemonman or the others that said something WAY before me?

````Where on earth do I put ALL the blame on the ow? That is completely wrong. But it is also a well used, well oiled excuse also. My husband paid dearly. But since he has proven by words and actions to us and how he handled the oc situation, we were able to move on.

NTMO: Excelant. You don't live with me, or other ow's. You don't know them to "JUDGE" there lifestyle. Just as your husband was and did change and was remorseful don't think that a OW can't do the same. Do you think we start "preying" on the next mm victum? OH PLEAAZZZZZZE! Regardless if you feel the ow deserves to have this devastion in her life or not, ow's are human just as the mm's are and have to deal with the outcome and guilt of all of this too. Why can't you give the credit you give your husband to other ow's who you think have low morals that have proven where there morals really are and stop putting them down. Yes you lump them. I did not see you putting down one bw for saying a word to Cordella. I'm not hollier than thou, but I'm not a bad person either. Most of the xow I know and socialize with do not encourage affairs. They support with kindness if possible to run as fast as they can. In addition.........I/WE are NOT your OW! Your ow did all those things. I leave xmm alone. In fact if you want to get to the basics of things. xmm's wife got ahold of my phone number and kept calling every frecking day and on my fax number (I guess thinking it was a regular line as well. I had to put a tracer on my phone and catch her. It was either her or him. She blocked her number, but the tracer got her. I could have very easily pressed charges. I did not. This little fued between us needed to stop. So all I did was give his attorney the information and asked him to please take care of it. It stopped so I was happy with that. They drive by my condo. As long as they don't come ringing my doorbell. They can knock themself out. I don't care. IT's there gas not mine. It use to really make me mad but now it's just whatever. I'm not going to live my life running from his/her tatics. It's not worth it. As far as being hypicritical I am when it has to do with my daughter. I do feel that a father should have something do with there kids, but I am very content and stress free not having xmm in my daughters life. But I'm honest about it at least.

```````It was OW own stupid actions, and constant harrassment that has her with leins agianst her home, and OFP/RO against her. She is the psycho who wouldn't let things go. She is the one who would send photos to the grandparents, who were sickend by the situation and had to get legal protection from her also. How is her irrational, self serving behavior, and the resulting legal mess she finds herself in suddenly be me blaming her?? Rather simplistic.

NTMO: Lynn, I was not persay blaming you. I guess what I was saying is just by what I know of you and have experienced with you I can see where you may could have made her life a living hell. I could see where you would want her to know that YOU WERE IN TOTAL control of the situation. Where you fought everything to the limit regardless of fair or not. I could be WAY OFF, and if I am I am so sorry for having that impression of you. I mean that sincerly.

`````````Do we have to preface everything we write and explain how are husbands paid for it? I shouldn't think so. It should be a given. So, no I don't ONLY blame the ow. She is however held to the law, just like we were.


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NTMO: Abosulty not! YOu should not. Again, maybe if you sat back and listened to yourself at times and saw what you wrote with taking your own situation out of it, and your position maybe you might see where you could have done some of the things I've seen in your posts. Hey I know for a fact I've got a mouth and I'm out spoken. And in the beginning I was so confussed, and hurt and upset and harmonal and not understanding of what was happening in my life that I know I've said things that I would never say today. Some of my feelings maybe the same, and some are not. I've grown, and healed. I've seen not only the devastation it brought to my family, but other woman going through this. To be honest with you, I was lucky in ways. I went over to the ------>other board and met some great xow who helped alot, and then reading over here and the articles boards etc., listening to some of these woman really helped as well. I would not wish this situation (either side) on anyone I know.

As far as the "B" word, as I told Tigger, she was right. Cordella wants nothing from an ow/xow. I should have never replyed to her. But otherwise if someone says something insulting and basically basis I do have a right to speak my mind. Just as someone who has opinions on things just because you see nothing wrong with it Lynn, you can't go around and put others down for saying something. You should state your opinion, but that is it. I did not put Cordella down. I stated my opinion. And really my point to posting to you had very little to do with Cordella.

whew.........that was long.

Also sorry it looks like this, I have not figured out how to quote this thing correctly. I think I need Pep's help here!

[color:"blue"]I consider myself a better person than when I was involved in my A's. I still have yet to fully forgive myself for my parts in the A's. Your questions are a little confusing, because I've never judged you good or bad. I have my feelings about certain things that you say, yet don't call you out on them. If you had as a signature line to not reply for whatever reason I "qualified" for, I would refrain from doing so. There are MANY things that I do take to heart and have been hurt by from statements from you and others, whether they were directed at me or not. I've only acted on those a couple times, but usually refrain from doing so. Why? Because it's NOT condusive to MB and what it's here for.

It's just odd that you seem to be judging me for my past in the way that you are asking these questions, and that's what you are accusing Lynn and others of doing to you. I've been around these boards for almost 5 years now. It's not the easiest thing to recover from, but I do know of the many that I have helped, whether BS, WS, OW whatever. I'm finally smart enough that I don't lurk elsewhere and I have many more important things that have taken center stage in my life that I don't sit in front of the computer to get my daily dose of drama.

If I haven't answered to your liking, well, I'm not sure how else to answer. [/color]

Tiger I aplogize for coming off that way that you felt I was accusing you of starting a board war. It was not my intent. I said that because [/b] on another post and I did not want to t/j the other thread and I promised I would not let this turn into a board war and wanted to keep that promise. I just did not want a bunch of slinging kwim? It was not really directed to you, but as we both know from BB experience it could have easily been turned into that.

When I talk about something and why I feel that way I use examples of why I feel that way. When I said that about xmm it was where I learned that the "B" word is hurtful. Before I ever talked to him about it I never even considered it bad, good or indifferent. He was adopted by two great parents, but the past of the abondandtment and the affair of his birth parents that left him to be adoptive made him feel that way. He told me if I ever got mad at him to please never ever call him that. That was years before the affair ever started. It hurt to much. So that is where that was coming from. It had NO intent to hurt her. As well, it was my xmm not her xow. Many people here discuse there xmm/xow and so on on these boards Tigger, why is it that I should not use examples? You said that your xow wrote you a letter. I'm not Cordella's xow. Again, I had NO intent of hurting her feelings and was really trying to be nice. I'm not sure how this has turned into Cordella. As I stated that was just a small part of what I needed to talk to Lynn about. And once again Tigger, I agreed with you in my reply to as you explained it to me. What more can I say? [b]

Tigger I too have indifferent feelings on you. I've never really talked to you to get to know you and believe I don't judge you. WHo am I to judge you. That would be for me very wrong and insenstive and two faced. I had an affair and I am the last one to judge someone, although I do not condone them and will try my hardest to talk someone out of it that I see going in that direction due to my experiences and my mistakes. You said your confussed by my questions. Sorry about that. My point to asking those questions are this, that you had an affair, but you worked through it and because of that your a much better person and can help people going through what you've gone through. Your not scorned for life. I'm not scorned for life. If you don't like what I've said in some of my post that is fine. NOt everyone single one of us can agree. Again, I was called out before I started this post. It directed to me and all me. Should I just sit here and allow someone take something I said (let's forget that cordella did not want me to post to her for a moment) when I was not the one who started it, but was blamed for it, and torn down? In fact I think my post regarding the "B" word to Cordella was the nicest of them all.

Anyway, I have always felt like you really never liked me and that is okay Tigger. You don't cause me greif and I don't cause you grief.

No you have never called me out either with something I said you don't like, but have given your thoughts on it, which is great! I've learned a lot here and it's helped in my healing.

YOu really do need to start forgiving yourself though. Just as I do. I found a great article on it and if your interested I can send you the link. IF not that is okay too.

Again, I was not judging you. Far from it. I have NO right to judge you. And believe it or not, I have learned to refrain from certain threads myself now.

sorry but I need to respond to movingforward

"YOUR HUSBANDS are the ones who went outside the marriage and brought the OW into your marriage. YOUR husbands are the ones who crossed the line. NOT the OW...The OW is reacting NATURALLY as ANY woman would in a situation as this"

The OW in my situation did NOT cross a line? So sorry lady you're way wrong... She knew that my H and I were married for over a decade and a half. She did not care about my children or myself and that drunken "by chance" night she told my H it was just for one encounter of oral ... yet did things to record it to blackmail or prove to me what had happened... unfortunate for me that that proof never made it my way.

I would not react that way if I did what that OW did. I would not be in the situation in the first place... and if my some chance I was-unknowingly, I would not taunt/stalk/harrass any family members, WIFE, or children. I am so sorry but talk about grouping people, PLEASE!!!

I am sorry but your posts seem odd to me this will be all I say to you in this thread since you did not respond to the other post in the other thread I will assume you are done.

****I also want to point out that I know that this thread is not about me personally, so do not worry. I know its about the discussion that took place between a few posters in my thread.

I'm sorry cordelia, but your situation is NO different than anyones on here! 9 times out of 10 the OW does know that the MM is M...HELLO! MY OW knew he was married...MY OW knew we had three kids...MY OW knew my H and I were married for over a decade...
WHY on earth would you not say that your H is the one who crossed the line cordelia? WHY would you blame that on the OW? YES, she knew your H was married...Did your H NOT know he was married...Why didn't you H say NO, I am married to the OW? your statement makes absolutely no sense!


Why do my posts seem odd to you? What have I said to make my posts seem odd? And what do I have to be DONE with as you say it? ...please elaborate on WHY you think my posts seem odd to you...

I responded to you in the other thread as not to JACK this one.

"YOUR HUSBANDS are the ones who went outside the marriage and brought the OW into your marriage. YOUR husbands are the ones who crossed the line. NOT the OW...The OW is reacting NATURALLY as ANY woman would in a situation as this"

You do not see that as odd that you said the OW did not CROSS THE LINE?
Please read other thread and respond there..

Sorry to NEED2moveon this is my last post here.

Wheeeeew this is tiring.

NTMO - I should have clarified in my post that another poster brings up the overused, "your husband..." argument. It was not you. Sorry.

I DO see your arguments as one sided. The pain and healing of an ow means squat to the marriage she was a participant in hurting. Her feelings, her growth, whatever you call it is a moot point. Within that marriage, she will always be seen as a the [censored]. She will never been thought of in a positive light. Why would she? She is nothing. Just as so many ow call mm *** dads, etc. So too does the couple call her names. What the married couple chooses to think and how to treat the ow is a moot point. If she has changed, grown or whatever, is no big deal to me. She can find the cure for AIDS and she will still be thought of as a ***** in this house, and this family. Just as I'm sure my husband is not thought of highly by her. Who cares?

The fact that I was a BS, and had to deal with an oc, and forgave my husband and went on to live a nice life and can help support others who are facing this is what matters. If they want their marriages to work, they need to do what is best by them. And if that means cutting out the oc, so be it. It is nobody's business what they decide.

As for me judging you and your morals. That was to make a point. YOU are the one who is having a fit about the word ******* and how sorry you are that she can't see it your way. All I did was the exact same thing you did. Can't you see where you were judging her? It was the same thing. That was the point. Can't you admit that you were judging her? THAT was the point and why I came down on you. Call me judgemental, cause I am. I DO judge OW harshly who pick on BW's.

Bottom line is what a couple chooses to do, good bad or indifferent is THEIR choice to make. What the needs, concerns or wants of the ow/oc does not matter. They are not part of the nuclear family, certainly not part of the marriage and really, require no thought. UNLESS the couple chooses so. In that case, the only one that matters is the oc. And what/how the ow feels is a moot point. This ow who is trying to guilt this man into playing happy family and strolling into kindergarten needs to be set in her place. She needs to have a strong, decisive kick in her [censored]. She is not the wife. She is not a member of the family. She does not count, in that marriage. And yes. That is what I think. OW and their pain mean nothing. Why would it? Their life is none of my business. She deserves as much consideration as she gives.

As for toying with child support, I am speaking of the ones who try for side deals, and don't want courts involved. I am talking the ones who see child support as alimony of sorts. I am talking the ones who seem to think their oc should be supported in the same manner as the children of the marraige. Our oc should never benefit from MY work, ever. His mother can support him too. I have always believed, and still do, that if the courts did not award cs to these women, the level of oc would drop dramatically.

I HAVE been kind to ow who have come here and have been humble and scared. I have no patience for those who come on here and in passive aggressive ways, try to manipulate some wife to make a choice (contact) that she did not want. Trying to make her seem mean, and hard if she doesn't act like an adult.

I am appalled that the original thread was about the ow and her manipulations, and suddenly it was all about the term *******. As if that is the most horrible thing in that whole message. She is not a bad person for using the word *******. A ******* is the correct term for a child out of wedlock is is not? That is what started this whole thing is it not? Just like ***** is a female dog. It all depends on whom you are speaking. Go and call a local dog breeder, he will tell you that "his ***** is in heat" and he uses that term freely. If you see ***** (as I do) as meaning mean woman, then that is our problem. If she and her family call a child a *******, they are actually, not wrong. That is YOUR problem if you see it as wrong. She shouldn't have to ever explain her thoughts to you anyways as she has it clearly stated that she does not want you to.

As for board wars. I thought they were when people go back and forth between other boards, doing drive-by postings. I have NEVER gone to the TOW and posted. EVER. So I have not participated in a board war. You have always posted to me directly here, in response to my posts, so I don't see where you and I disagreeing is a problem for other boards. I think we both know where each other stands. You love, care and cherish your children, as do I. You want what is best for your children, as do I. You wish your childs father would be part of her life, but I see where he and his family would say it is not in their best interest to do so. And there it is. So we disagree on that. But who is wrong? It depends doesn't it? You would probaby think that it should all be handled as what is best for your child. Have Daddy pick her up and take her to the zoo. But I would say, nope. He can't take time away from these children, as he has hurt them enough by his actions. So, who's children are more important?

There is two answers. I will say mine are. You will say yours are. Simple really. Everyone right, everyone wrong.

Lynn you would not tire so easy if you read the correct words of a post and not add things that have nothing to do with what I've said or done. Just food for thought. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Lynn who the heck were you responding to cause it sure was not me! 3/4 of what you said, or replied to never even applied to me.

FIRST PLEASE LISTEN THIS TIME TO WHAT I AM SAYING. THE "B" WORD IS A SMALL THING TO ME WITH YOU. YOu went off of a tangit with it. I was VERY nice to her (Cordella) about it and non judgamental. I think you need to give that speach to Mom and Lemonman! NOT ME. And if you would have read my post to Tigger for the fact that she wants no ow repsonsding to her, I said she was right.....100%. Was that not good enough for you? Was it not plain enough for you to hear? Even when she came on my THREAD, did you see me get involved in her and mom's tiff? NOPE. I could have very easily put my 2cents in being it my thread, but I refrained.

Thanks for the apoligy have no idea what your talking about, but thanks anyway. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

~~~~Lynn says: The fact that I was a BS, and had to deal with an oc, and forgave my husband and went on to live a nice life and can help support others who are facing this is what matters. If they want their marriages to work, they need to do what is best by them. And if that means cutting out the oc, so be it. It is nobody's business what they decide.


```````NTMO: Ooooooooookay. Sure. I don't recall that coming into the convo, but Okay Lynn. Sure.

``````````LYnn: As for me judging you and your morals. That was to make a point. YOU are the one who is having a fit about the word [censored] and how sorry you are that she can't see it your way. All I did was the exact same thing you did. Can't you see where you were judging her? It was the same thing. That was the point. Can't you admit that you were judging her? THAT was the point and why I came down on you. Call me judgemental, cause I am. I DO judge OW harshly who pick on BW's.

````````NTMO: As long as she does not call me or my family members or my friends the "B" word THEN whatever. As stated before...what I said to Cordella was a nice post from what mom and Lemonman had posted just to say how it can insult others. IF you feel the need to continue to blame me for that and carry on about that....that too is your business right?

I'm not going to copy and paste your next paragraph as it's almost the same as the one above. So read paragraph above for my reply. It is not changing.

Lynn: And what/how the ow feels is a moot point. This ow who is trying to guilt this man into playing happy family and strolling into kindergarten needs to be set in her place. She needs to have a strong, decisive kick in her [censored]. She is not the wife. She is not a member of the family. She does not count, in that marriage. And yes. That is what I think. OW and their pain mean nothing. Why would it? Their life is none of my business. She deserves as much consideration as she gives.


NTMO: What Ow is doing this? Guilty the mm? What does that have to do with me? What does her situation have to do with what I've said to you or me? DId I do it? Did someone else on this board do it? I'm confussed Lynn, why would you bring this up to me? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Although this has nothing to DO with me, I will say this. THe ow your talking about has a daughter. Her daughter's welfare if every bit of her business. Anywhere that child is. Including in the home of her father. Do I think it would be a good idea for mother and father to take this child to school together? I have no clue. Looking at mm's wife point of view NO. Can't see Mm's point of view though, but if he does not want to, then NO. IF he wants to then yes. It's there business and there decissions, not what you Lynn think is proper and not proper. I know for a fact taht I would not have missed my kids first day of K for anything in the world. If there father came fine, if he did not come fine. NO sweat off my butt as long as I DON'T MISS IT.

Lynn: As for me judging you and your morals. That was to make a point. YOU are the one who is having a fit about the word [censored] and how sorry you are that she can't see it your way. All I did was the exact same thing you did. Can't you see where you were judging her? It was the same thing. That was the point. Can't you admit that you were judging her? THAT was the point and why I came down on you. Call me judgemental, cause I am. I DO judge OW harshly who pick on BW's.

NTMO: There's the moot poit on the "B" word again. Geez let it go. I don't see everything my way. If that was the case, I would not be on this board at all. But I guess if you would have read my post correctly you would have seen that.
Yes you do judge ow harshly. All of them.
As stated before, I can quote you line for line. Although it would be cumbersom.


Toying with cs.....I don't agree with that either. I think just as you that everything go through an attorney. The problem with your theroy is it just not the ow. I've seen quit a few mm want to also. As I stated eariler, you need to worry about the ones that are not going for cs. Those are the ones that probally (not always) are either still in the affair, or hoping to go back into or breaking up the marraige.

Lynn says:I HAVE been kind to ow who have come here and have been humble and scared. I have no patience for those who come on here and in passive aggressive ways, try to manipulate some wife to make a choice (contact) that she did not want. Trying to make her seem mean, and hard if she doesn't act like an adult.
NTMO: Your thoughts on manuplation are more than likely opinions. You need to see the difference as it's not what you like to hear or your liking. I have just seen in the very present you not get on someone for contact so you really have no room to talk on this subject.

Lynn, do you have any clue how many time you have brought up the "B" word? It's old okay?

Lyn a board war is when someone goes after someone on there post. Purposly is rude and creating a rukus on that thread.

As far as ME wishing my child's father was in her life. I'm not sure where YOU got that idea. I've had the same answer for that one for a very very long time. VERY LONG TIME. It's not my loss. And our life is just perfect the way it is. Stress free of the drama and everything in it's place! Just the way I am use to things. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

As always Lynn, you still did not read my post as it was written. I tried to talk to you and point some things out to you. I never even started or attacted over the "B" word, and that is your main purpose in life with me right now. NOW THAT IS AMUSSING! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

NTMO

As always, you play the victim, the holier then thou, ow.
Typical.

Lynn is this not what you think of every ow/xow? I have NEVER played the victim or holier than thou. You are a typical bitter person if you want to start pointing at flaws.

YOu can dish it out, but you can't take it. I hope one day you can learn to stop judging anyone who is NOT YOU.

Tell me where you see me playing the victim. I would love to see quotes. As well the holier than thou. Although, I do know I'm a christain and am forgiven for my sins. Thank GOODNESS YOU ARE NOT THE SON OF GOD!