Melody - Have I told you how much I admire you? I know this thread has to be hard for you, but like a good Texas gal, you are in here slinging away. I very much appreciate your willingness to help the rest of us.

Susan, I too have a wonderful marriage, but I will never blindly trust anyone again.. I no longer have that easy trust for others that I once had since I have been through this. That was the residual effect of being betrayed that won't go away.

thanks, Believer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

ok, i've had some lunch, headache is gone...

i've also been able to reflect a bit and un-muddy up the water in my head (it was getting too muddy!!)

maybe we are not talking about the same thing.

NEVER would i say what I did to my H was not terrible.

NEVER would i say that it should not cause him pain and hurt.

I do not believe I am minimizing the damage done. i see the damage!!!! there is no doubt about it. and it is totally understandable damage!!

Never would I say, "see everything worked out so good, guess we should be thankful that it all happened" NEVER!!!

I have looked at the damage done head on, and i have looked at and owned how I have caused the damage.

that has not been fun but I agree with you melody, totally necessary for me to be able to grow.

but that is not the point of what i was trying to say. we went from talking about what is possible in recovery to how horrible infidelity is. we all agree, infidelity is TERRIBLE!!!

i read what Bob is saying about how he does not see how he will ever fully recover, how a dead core will forever remain. that is a different thing. that is about the now and the future.

and my response to that continues to be an enthusiastic and encouraging, YES YOU CAN!!!

that is what my point is. with God all things are possible.

that is my story and i'm sticking with it!!!

because, i am an optomistic person at heart! and boy did i lose that for so many years, in a terrible, horrible and totaly destructive way.

that is why i am so passionate about this topic.

my biggest downfall was losing hope. but it was my H's biggest strength. and it is what brought me home and saved me, his hope.

and so i will continue to tell anyone who starts to sound defeated... there is ALWAYS HOPE to be found because God is ever faithful to us.

it has taken me 41 years to figure that out guys!!! nothing said here is going to shake my foundation now.

perhaps arms cannot be re-grown and dead children cannot come back <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> but marriages, and people, can be healed and made new and whole again.

"duke it out" FL-T2M
resist the temptation of running away from the sticking place .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
it's great practice here ... learning how to discuss difficult things without losing hold of yourself ... keep it up!

FL, but you have not been on the receiving end of adultery, so with all due respect, your confidence is a little hollow, and a little unrealistic. Sure, all things are possible with God, but that doesn't mean he caters to our whims or wipes away the lasting effect of traumatic events. God does not wave a magic wand and end all effects of evil, that just isn't how it works.

have you tried specifically praying for God to help you trust easier again? or have you concluded that you are better off the way you are now? if it is the latter then you have to own that choice because it is not a residual effect that will not go away, it is a choice you are making.



but i have been on the receiving side of betrayal, lets face it, all of us have. who is to say which of our experiences are "worse"?? i'm not going to judge yours, i ask you not to judge mine. your experiences are yours alone and only you and God know 100% what it did to you same as for me.


i didn't say he caters to our whims or waves a magic. it takes a lot of effort on the person who has been hurt to heal. evil is part of this world. God cannot take that away withoug taking away free will. therefore the effect's of evil is present in this world too.

However, God CAN make us whole and heal us.

Does "others" include your husband?

Susan

{{{FL}}}, your post was heartbreaking to read... Thanks for sharing so honestly and openly.

FL, I can relate 100% with what you have said above. I was sexually, physically and verbally abused by my own father. I was also sexually abused (incest) by my father's youngest brother between the ages of 2 - 5.

Personally I can't imagine anything worse - anything more EVIL than incest and sexual abuse to an innocent child... There were many times throughout my life I have cried and pleaded to God and wanted to know WHY it happened to me and WHY He allowed it to happen... I felt betrayed by both God and the people who did it to me because I have lost my innocence in the worst and most evil way possible... And I lost it by people who was suppose to LOVE me and PROTECT me. But I have learned to stop asking questions and just accept what happened... I would have not survived if I haven't choose on some point in my life to put it behind me and learn to come to terms with it...and I wouldn't be able to do it without the help of God and IC. As I've said before, I still have scars...and what happened will FOREVER be a part of me, but I have learned to focus on the positive things and appreciate all the good things in my life in stead. There is no other way to survive the problems and traumatic experiences in life... One must try and find something good and positive out of the negative things that happen to us in life.

This was a major threadjack, but I wanted to share this with you FL.

I won't be back on tonight and will post again tomorrow.

Blessings,
Suzet

pep, thanks. i was close to doing just that, running off, figuring i have no clue about what i was saying. in other words i was close to letting myself get derailed.

but that is not the new me, now is it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, yes .....I whole heartedly agree with this.

The A fundamentally changed "who" I am.
And I believe looking in hindsight, that I am changed FAR More toward the Negative, then towards the positive.

I really liked and enjoyed the Person and mindset I Had pre D-day.

Sadly, that person NO Longer exists.

I am forever changed ......and Not due to some Personal Choice or Revelation .......but instead from something intentionally and wantonly perpetrated against me.

Doesn't mean I can't or won't move on ......just that in the context of THIS Thread,
I really miss the OLD me and MY Old Life and My perspective on that Life.

If it in some ways Helped my W, then Goodie Goodie for Her.
However, for me its been [color:"blue"]NOTHING [/color] but Crap.

Cause as I believe Todd mentioned earlier, ANY Positives that Have come about from this awful experience could Have been achieved in So many other Ways.
Sad But totally TRUE!

The FallOut and repercussions of an A,
in almost all cases "trump" whatever Good can be gleamed from it.

{For example, my W's NEW Found Sexuality}.
You know: all the Tricks she brought Home to NOW use on me.
Things she would NEVER Do Before!
GRRRRRRRRRR

For Me, even the "good" things she's gained, are forever "tainted".

{{Suzet}}

Wise questions Fl! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Female, I was the FWS, our marriage is post recovery thanks to finding MB. MB gave us the push we needed to really give our recovery some oomph. It had been over a year and a half after DD before we found it I think, don't remember now so it was just what we needed to fine tune our recovery. Lurked for a long, long time before posting and I'm very grateful for everything I've learned.

The affair is not an issue in my husband's life or mine but if not for how close we drew and how open I became after the trauma of the affair I doubt very much I would have been motivated or able even to confront the past. The effects of CSA on adult survivors can't be minimized. It's not something I care to discuss on a public forum so I wondered if you'd be open to some thoughts I had in reference to some things you said.

I rarely appear on anything but BS threads so we haven't posted to each other in the past but I have followed your story intermitently from the beginining. I'd like to talk offline but also understand if you'd rather not. KB

Can an amatuer jump in here?
I have read all of this thread, I was sent here by believer...thank you B
I can sympathise with it all.
I have lost a child, I was physically, emotionally, and sexually abused as a child, and I am a BS.
I think with it all, I agree with everyone. Yes, there is a core that is broken. From the loss of a child, the emptiness that never will be. From the abuse, the deep pain, hurt, and no trust ever from the ones who gave you life. From the WS's betrayal, the loss of trust that drains all of you.
With it all is pain, loss of trust, sense of emptiness, and many other things.
I am a SURVIVOR and so are all of you.
It does not mean that we will ever forget or trust fully.
What each of us takes from these hurts and pains is what we need to take to survive. I am not spiritual, but God did program us to survive, and survive we have.
But yes, my inner machinery is repaired. I have become a better person from it all. Even the abuse. I broke the cycle of abuse and have 4 wonderful, loving, and respectful children. They have never known abuse, only love and respect. So in that fact I am a better person, I gave them the strong foundation to build on that I never had.
With the A, I am becoming a stronger person. I have accepted my part in his A, and truely do see the hurt in his eyes for what he has done to me. I am at a crossroads in the M. I will take stock that even though I have rebuilt parts from my past and this A, I will make the right choice for myself.
I am just thankful that I found this site and all of these survivors here to help me through this. So in closing, everyone here is right. To each his own, and his own way to look at it. We all look at the glass and think...half full or half empty.
Thanks all...
JE

This is an interesting thread.

I have a question. When you have faced the truth, then what? Once you have ensured the A is over and both spouses have committed to recovery, only then can you face the truth, move forward and so on... But once you have talked about it, redefined boundaries for this new healthy marriage, opened the books, given the passwords and read up on and applied principles from MB or some such thing, what else do you do?

I know I have not articulated this question well and probably lead folks off the path I am looking at.

My point is when is it the WS minimizing the damage or the BS living in the past?

Well, no, I did not "choose" to be betrayed. Mine is a natural, rational reaction. When one is betrayed or harmed, they should be more cautious and realistic in thier approach to others. Just as child abuse victims will forever be changed, so are adultery victims.



But you are judging mine. You are saying that I have no right to a natural reaction to betrayal. Of course I do. And unless you have been the victim of adultery, you really can't comment on whether my, or anyone else's, reaction is correct.




Well yes you did. You suggested that send up a wish list to God to cater to my whims to "wipe out all" residual effects. That just isn't how it works. People don't forget and they shouldn't. God doesn't wipe out the residual effects of life's experience.


Absolutely, and I am a walking example of that. However, having a residual effect of trauma does not mean that one is sick and needs to be healed.

Especially my husband.

I would have no idea how to answer that question. I imagine it would all depend on the individual circumstances.

Others may not understand this ~

I truly feel like I know and understand my husband better and am able to trust him more now than I did before the affair.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I just wanted to say what popped into my mind when I read this. The "only" good thing that came out for me is that I have learned to "Trust" myself and my intuition.
I used to feel foolish about "my" feelings and I "never" really thought about "what my intuition" was trying to tell me.

I now know that there is "always" a reason when I "feel" something is "not right". I now listen to my intuition or at least I don't just "brush it away" as I used to.

Sadely, this is the only "positive" thing for me..........and I wish I could of learnt this without experiencing infidelity.

take care
bb