Hi TreborRose & Ashley88,

I saw your posts to my thread and wanted to start a new thread just for you 2 - and any other BS's who have questions. Also, feel free to email me at [email]whisper28@excite.com.[/email] Note: Even though topics are sensitive and responses may or may not always be helpful, I always recommend posting here just because there are so many others who can benefit from our Q&A's.

Please remember that I'm always here to help whenever I can. Plus, I can always call on the really wise ones if I'm stumped. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

lol whisp - you are become a REALLY wise one too lol

^ Bump ^ for TR & Ashley

I have a question!

I have noticed in some of your posts that you do not think that separation is the disaster that many other MB's do. Specifically, when the WS moves in with the OP.

This is my situation. My WH moved in with the OW on the same day he left - nearly four months ago now. I understand that they are living in a kind of reality now (WH doesn't even see himself as having an affair any more!) because they are together much of the time, and the glow of the A may be starting to wear off.

Your A lasted 1 1/2 years? How long were you separated from your H before you began to feel doubts about the OM? I know you didn't live with him, but were you together a lot of the time after you separated from your H?

Thank you, Whisper!

Alph.

"How long were you separated from your H before you began to feel doubts about the OM?"

>I believe it was some time in the 3rd month when we had our 1st big fight. Note: All of our "big fights" were about nothing. Meaning, I think back to my old dating days, these things would've never bothered me when I'm truly falling for someone. Little by little, every little thing about the OM irritated me to the n-th degree b/c I knew what I was doing was wrong and bore tremendous amount of shame and guilt for it. In fact, I was constantly looking for reasons to let go. If you read some of my earlier posts, you'd see how many times I've tried to give it up but then buckled b/c my withdrawal was so severe.

"I know you didn't live with him, but were you together a lot of the time after you separated from your H?"

>We were nearly inseparable. He was always at my place or I was at his. We might as well have been living together. Again, under the circumstances, I do believe this was the best thing, as I was then able to see the flaws and gaps w/ the A that I couldn't otherwise have seen had we just "dated."

"WH doesn't even see himself as having an affair any more!"

>For me, this never was the case. I never once felt that I wasn't having an affair. I carry that guilt w/ me to this very day ... and will probably for the rest of my life.

Hi whisper, thanx for starting the thread.

My WH is a big CA. We seldom have fights during our marriage. I am not a dramatic person myself and prefer calm discussions/ negotiations. Do you know that one of his excuses for having the affair was that "I was easy to please"?? That he gave way to me because he wanted me to be happy. I told him that if he wasn't happy or didn't agree with something, he had not voiced it out strongly! I do ask for his opinions and his answer was usually something vague like "Okay", "anything".

So.. I wonder if he's now subconciously trying to create more drama (attention) for himself. Our marriage has always been rather stable. And everyone think we are happy together. Heck, even *I* thought we were happy!!! He's now got what he wants.. a running soap opera that's not stopping.

My WH is aware that he's doing something v. wrong, and that he is v sorry that he has hurt the people he cares for. A few days after D-Day, after he *CHOSE* to separate, he also did mention to me that he was also unsure if it cld work with OW because he is carrying this burden within him. And yet he was still making promises to her. He is full of guilt, has lost alot of weight the last we saw him and yet... he is still continuing the A!!

Tell me whisper... how can a WS still continue the A when he KNOWS it is something v. wrong and hurtful to the pple around him as well as himself???

~A

"My WH is a big CA"

>Sorry, but I'm not sure what a CA is. Please explain so I can better understand your sitch.

"I told him that if he wasn't happy or didn't agree with something, he had not voiced it out strongly! I do ask for his opinions"

>I know every sitch is different, but I recall that early-on, my H and I would always have fights about the same things. Even when I threatened to leave, He wasn't willing to budge. After a while, I stopped fighting with him. I simply gave up. In retrospect, that's when I believe I was most susceptible/vulnerable to an A.

"I wonder if he's now subconciously trying to create more drama (attention) for himself."

>Note that attention (i.e. affection) was one of the most seductive thing to me about the A. Before the A, I described my M as boring and lack-luster. I recall thinking often - is this how I'm going to spend the rest of my life ... like those old couples at Denny's who never once acknowledge each other during 1 1/2 hour breakfast?

"He is full of guilt, has lost alot of weight the last we saw him and yet... he is still continuing the A!!"

>I lost 20 pounds during my A (I started at 5'9" & 130 lbs). Addiction and stress can do severe damage to one's body, mind and soul. On several occassions when I attempted to leave the OM, my withdrawals were so severe that I would vomit, convulse in bed, cry for hours and not able to eat or sleep for days. Why? Because I thought my life and my happiness would simply die w/ the death of the A.

"how can a WS still continue the A when he KNOWS it is something v. wrong and hurtful to the pple around him as well as himself???"

>Because I felt a sense of entitlement. When I felt most guilty, I asked the question "don't I have the right to be happy too?"

Note: Nothing I'm saying is to justify your WH's actions but rather to shed light on the sitch. Nothing more. I just hope this clarifies things for you a bit so that you know what you're up against and are better equipped to fight it.

CA = Conflict Avoider.


Thing is, we never really fought. And now he says that's the reason he's leaving. When I wld have been willing to discuss what WH was not happy about, he never even told me or open his mouth. Now, he's not even giving me *ANY* chance to try. Just walked out. I didn't even have a real chance to negotiate.


I thought that would have been the reason as well. Thanx for clarifying.

I'll post again when another question pops into my head.

~A

Whisper,

I caught this new post a little late but will reply tomorrow when I have more time to. I need to go to sleeeep nooowwwwwwww......

Whisper, may I ask another?

What was your relationship like with your H after you left? Did you see him often?

Were you able to interact pleasantly with him, or were you quite defensive? How did he behave towards you - did he ask you to come home etc, tell you he missed you?

I ask because I want to understand better my WH's behaviour towards me.

Thank you.

Alph.

Good question, Alph. I was about to ask something similar...

Did you plan to separate/ D your spouse soon after the A was discovered? If so, was it done such that you cld continue the A, and/or avoid dealing with the issues at hand between you and your spouse?

Did you at any time felt that you wanted to work on the marriage? Or the thought had not enter your mind at all till the fog cleared somewhat?

~A

Alphin -

"What was your relationship like with your H after you left? Did you see him often?"

>It was a constant roller coaster - b/c of my emotional tug-of-war (limbo-hell) in trying to decide "who to choose?" I would be hot one day and cold the next - to both sides. I called and visited my H often out of guilt and b/c I didn't really want to let go. In fact, I even went home every day during lunch and cleaned the house and paid the bills. Also, I was paralyzed with fear of losing a H who "looked great on paper" - those were the exact words I used. Meaning, he is loving, caring, had a good job, is a true gentleman, came from solid upbringing, got along w/ my family and friends, etc. At the same time, I was so afraid of losing the OM who was able to meet my unmet EN's. So, I did what I needed to do to string both along. Yes, those were some very dark days for me and the monster that I've become.

"Were you able to interact pleasantly with him, or were you quite defensive? How did he behave towards you - did he ask you to come home etc, tell you he missed you?

>For most part, things were usually quite amicable. Keep in mind that my H did not know about my A until late last year, so he didn't question, and I didn't tell. What tore me up inside was seeing the hurt in his eyes b/c I left him stranded all the while knowing that I was out there "living it up" at his expense. He deserved so much better.

He never asked me to come home, but he did tell me he missed me and that he was miserable without me. Unfortunately, those were the times when I became defensive and ugly. I would turn it around and say that he was saying those things to make me feel guilty.

**I feel so ashamed in even writing any of this. I can't believe how badly I behaved. I'm so sorry that our BS's have to live with this. You have my utmost respect and gratitude.**

Ashley:

"Did you plan to separate/ D your spouse soon after the A was discovered? If so, was it done such that you cld continue the A, and/or avoid dealing with the issues at hand between you and your spouse?"

>Actually, we separated in Mar 04, I confessed my A to my H in Oct 04 and we decided to file a D in April 05. We (jointly) decided on a D b/c my H just simply couldn't put up with my [email]cr@p[/email] any longer (who could blame him?) and I just couldn't see how I could possibly feel anything for my my H again. By that point, I was pretty sick of the OM as we were fighting all the time, so it really didn't have as much to do w/ the A. I just couldn't see any hope for my M.

"Did you at any time felt that you wanted to work on the marriage?"

>Yes, all the time. Keep in mind that all I've ever wanted was a happy, (fun) stable M. The problem was the OM was always in the picture, if not physically than emotionally. Until 2 months ago, I was never able to get past the withdrawal/fog. Now that I'm past that point, I can clearly see that with the OM still lingering in the picture, there was no, zero, zippo chance that my H and I could possibly work on the M.

My WW wants to continue the affair and continue to live as a married couple. Did you ever want to try that? What would give anyone the idea that this would work?

Whisper wrote in other thread:


Just wanted to say thank you for the clarification. Yes, I agree with you that taking care of EN's is both spouses responsibility. Our perception of 'vulnerabilities' were different. I did not see EN's as vulnerabilities.

fG

Whisper-

I don't know if you follow my thread or not, but my H is still acting like a WH even though the affair is pretty damn dead.....we are living together, but I'm in the process of moving out again, and we are filing a dissolution....I'm tired of fighting with him/for him.

After the OM was out of the picture *physically*...how long before you came around? How close to divorce were you?

I'm always looking for the silver lining....my H is being very nice to me....living like everything is fine, while divorcing me. He sends VERY mixed signals, and I'm getting weary of using my BS decoder ring.

-Caren

BL -

"My WW wants to continue the affair and continue to live as a married couple. Did you ever want to try that?"

>Never. In fact, when I walked out, I was absolutely convinced that I was leaving my H for good, and a D was just a matter of time. Note: My departure was NOT b/c of my A, but the A certainly eased me out the door. You see, I was a big coward. I was subconsciously looking for someone to "rescue" me from my broken M. Since I married when I was 20 (and my parents didn't let me date in high school), I was deathly afraid of being alone and being single again. The A was just an excuse, not the reason.

In retrospect, my biggest mistake was hooking up with the OM which confused the whole matter because the question I should've answered is "marriage or no marriage?" not "my H or the OM?". When I left, I never thought that I'd have these lingering feelings for my H. They actually came out after I left. While I did enjoy spending time w/ the OM, I knew very early on that I couldn't spend the rest of my life w/ him (and even told him as such); he thought he could convince me otherwise. This is going to make me look even worse: I saw the OM more as a "transition" relationship - someone to help me ease out of the M and into something better. Yes, I was a very, very bad person.

"What would give anyone the idea that this would work?"

>Have no idea on this one. Given what my H and I've gone through, I'd just as soon shoot myself than having to live like that for the rest of my life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Hello again, Whisper!

When you first suggested reconciliation, did your H accept you straight away?

I've got to the point now where I don't think I could believe or trust any gestures towards reconciliation by my WS.

Alph.

Caren,

Sorry, I've not followed your thread, but I'll try to respond as best as I can ...

"my H is still acting like a WH even though the affair is pretty damn dead"

>Not sure if you saw my most recent post, but my H and I have our ups 'n downs w/ recovery too. I think SendMeOnMyWay said it best: "Our haunts are in our heads." I interpreted this as the 1 thing that stifles my H and my recovery is our painful memory/experience w/ the A. We are our own worst enemies. I'd often catch myself shutting down or withdrawing from my H b/c some awful memory would pop in my head that would make me feel very ashamed and guilty. You would think that's when I'd reach out to my H the most, but that's just not how human beings work. We tend to retract when we're confronted by negative emotions (depression, fear, anxiety, etc.)

"After the OM was out of the picture *physically*...how long before you came around?"

>For me, it was immediate. Keep in mind that I've lived on a roller coaster for the past 1.5 yrs. I've gone through the NC/withdrawal/return to the A again and again. When I finally made up my mind, I didn't have the fog/withdrawal to contend with. By that point, I knew I've had enough of the OM and just wanted my M/H back. It wasn't just "the right thing to do", but it was "what's right for me". And, THAT made all the difference.

"How close to divorce were you?"

>By a hair. I paid the attorney's fees. All our papers were completed. We even started to split all our finances and assets. (Now that we're back together, I'm sure our banker thinks we're nuts.)

"He sends VERY mixed signals, and I'm getting weary of using my BS decoder ring."

>With the way you're describing your H's behavior, I'm guessing he's still in his withdrawal ... or possibly even still in the A/fog?? Even though I have my bouts of depression or guilt, at the end of the day, I will still verbally tell my H that I love him and that I'm wanting things to work.

Alphin -

"When you first suggested reconciliation, did your H accept you straight away? I've got to the point now where I don't think I could believe or trust any gestures towards reconciliation by my WS."

Verbally, he yes, but behaviorally, no. In fact, I sensed his reluctance to work on things, to reach out to me. When I asked several times, he finally admitted that he just didn't trust me. He was so afraid that I'd leave again. I don't blame him. I pulled the NC/go back home/withdrawal/return to OM thing so many times that I didn't even trust myself. Your feelings are natural, and your H should understand. Note: it's only been 2 months, and I sense no reluctance from my H whatsoever now. I think it does make a difference how the FWS reassures his/her BS in his/her commitment to recovery.