Thought I would vent here since posts get buried so quickly. My WW has expressed some interest in posting and she knows I'm campdog so I'm hoping she'll miss this one. If not, who cares?

Day 75 since d-day. After a slow start I have been plan A'ing my butt off. Found out on Father's Day they were still talking after I listened to a message from him on her cell phone. Seem's she called him to wish him a happy Father's Day concerning the child they had together in November that I'm raising. Posted all about it in another thread. Since then she has SWORN that they haven't talked again, that he calls and leaves messages but she doesn't answer.
Here's the kicker. Last Friday the 22nd she said she was going to Sears after work to pick up a family picture we had taken. Came home around 7:30 empty handed and said traffic was heavy so she just walked around a mall and did some shopping. She must have seen the look on my face because she leaned over, took my hand, looked me in the eye and said " I wasn't with his father". At first I was pleased that she was considering my feelings and making an effort to make me feel better. Later I realized that if she were lying she would do it in exactly the very same manner.

She's been very lovey dovey the last few days, even approached me sexually. Very noticable and out of character. I thought she was feeling guilty, probably about calling him, but considered that plan A might be working. After today's discovery I am convinced they were together.

Not gonna change plan A. No confontations or accusations. That's why K is such a smart guy. He said he thought I would have to go to plan B and that it would happen around September. If I'm right about them being together I'm in the wind September first. I know what everyone will say (I think) but just thought I'd post this here and see what comes up. I already did 5 pages in my journal.

Is it a cell phone bill that you are waiting for? Many of them have an online website where you can see all calls up to the current day. My carrier's site shows calls I made as recent as an hour ago.

Tell her that you need reassurance that she has did as she promised and not talked to him since Fathers Day. Look into her eyes and see how she reacts to the question and then how smoothly she states that she has not broken her promise. If she can lie right to your face and not even blink at the question then you have you answer about whether or not you can ever trust her again. I am not surprised that she has had contact but the promise to not do it so early is what is surprising. It boxed her into a hole. Considering her feelings for him during the affair and the child being his biologically, it was too early to expect to cut him off. In fact it might never even be realistic considering the child. She may actually want to reconcile with you but can't separate the child from his Bio father in her mind. If you want to reconcile with your wife considering the circumstances you posted about, you might be better off allowing controlled contact with you present. Just a thought. Good Luck!!

I'm sorry CD. I know that feeling all too well. Blatent lies from WW right to your face are really hard to take, but all part of what happens I guess. I'm disasterously close to plan B myself.

Have you gotten a letter written yet? If so post it for some analysis by the experts.

How well is you plan A going? From what I know of your story, it sounds like you are on track, but I must admit, I have not been following as closely as I should.

Make sure before you make the leap to plan B, that you have done and said everything you want to WW. Because you will have to "go dark". Make sure you have your legal ducks in a row as well. Gotta look out for campdog.

I will make it a point to stick to your story a little better.

Love and prayers, DKM.

CD,

First let me tell you. I have been around here a long time, and K has been here even longer. I view him as the best of the best on this site, so pay really close attention to what he tells you. Of all the people on this site he has made the biggest impact on me. You should read his story or ask him to post the short version for you to read.

Do a good plan A, but when it is time for plan B do it, and do it right so read alot about it, prepare yourself, and get ready it is hard, but it will be effective in: convincing your W to choose you, or allowing you to see that this marriage needs to end. I cannot tell you which it will be, but trust me you will know the right answer after plan B.

I am sorry she is doing this,but a sure clue was when she referred to the child as "his father". That is NOT a good sign.

God Bless,

JL

Hi Campdog:

I was hoping that you were referring to my current research on using learning machines and neural clustering algorithms to categorize biological response data. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> This isn't good news, but it's very predictible.

There are a couple schools of thought with regards to how to execute Plan B. Many people do it in response to a particular WS behavior or act (renewed contact, for example). I'm not necessarily of that thought---I believe that you should go to Plan B to save your love for your wife, and that you should try to deliver the message when it's relatively "quiet" in your relationship---so that the impact of this transition is clearly felt, and that there's less chance that the WS can blame you for "going off" over a particular issue. It's because the body of evidence says "you can't trust her, the affair is not over", and that you can't subject your love for her to this active disrespect and expect to save the marriage.

I think your timing is pretty appropriate. As other's have said, get your ducks in a row. Have a plan. Have a good Plan B letter (many people on this site will help you with this---I think that Chris (CA123) is really good with these, as it JL and Pepper). Know where you're going (or where your wife is going). Have a plan for the kids. Have intermediaries set up. Know the finances. Have legal counsel, if you need it.

The transition should be made calmly---you should sit your wife down and let her know what you know. You shouldn't trap her in lies---it's counterproductive (if she tries to lie her way out, that's different). If I were you I would have a detailed list of EXACTLY what she would need to do to avoid Plan B---verifiable no contact, counseling, etc. But I'm not sure that I would even let her out of Plan B regardless of what she promised---she's acting as an addict, and addicts are really good at promising but not delivering. IMO she will need to hit rock bottom with this before SHE has the desire or need to fix this---and only then will you be able to enter reconcilliation mode.

I think you're handling this very, very well. Plan B is extremely difficult, but you're setting it up well. And when you go, don't be afraid to tell your wife that you've known she's been lying for the last xxx months. When she has some time to contemplate it, she'll recognize your effort for what it's been---a really terrific desire to restore the marriage.

Good luck...

(And thank's for the seal-of-approval, JL... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

Working on the first draft of the letter right now. Hard to not sound angry or accusing. This is a toughie.

September 1st may be a little unrealistic financially speaking since I am taking my oldest son with me. No way a court would deny me custody under the circumstances. I'd take the baby too but I think that I would have to give him up eventually to his biological parents. Better to cut my heart out right away and start the grieving process. God I'll miss him.

Ironically my wife is more affectionate and giving than ever before. I told her that I still believed she was with him last Friday and she said she was sorry I felt that way, but I was wrong. I know I could be wrong but it doesn't FEEL wrong.


K, I could use some of your strength right now. bOb, pops, Autumn and everyone else, likewise. Leaving my family and wife will be like pushing my hand into my chest and ripping my heart out. I will do what I gotta do but I'm so scared.

Don't know how much strength I can lend, but just would like to reiterate what JL and K are saying to you. JL said,

camp, as hard as Plan B is, it WILL give you your answer, for good or bad. You will either have a M entering recovery, or one that will be ending. Even if it's the latter, at least you will know, and that has got to be better than the way you're living now. Right now she's still living two lives, she is not committed to anything except for cake eating and fence sitting. To live in a situation like that indefinately to forever, imo is FAR worse than D.

I'm so glad you have a plan. That's such a good step in the right direction in and of itself. You're not sitting there spinning your wheels, instead you're being proactive.

Be encouraged, you are doing well camp.

Regards,
~ad

Campdog

Heres a question for you.

What would you do if you weren't afraid ?

[color:"red"] One of the best questions I've read ... I plan to use this without the author's permission! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

bOb you're something else. I have a huge respect for your ability to see things so clearly. You have an amazing way of going straight to the heart of matters. I try very hard to emulate you.

AD I called and you answered. God bless you. You too Pep.

I thought real hard about this one. My answer is that I would do exactly as I'm doing now.

Your question forced me to look at what exactly it was that I feared. I see now that the quaking fear I was experiencing earlier was about what would become of my kids and wife if I were out of the picture. I can only interperet this as a manifestation of my love for them. So what does that vision of love mean and what responsibilities does it give me? It means I have to put down my bag of rocks and pull out the strength to go on.

I have read over and over here about how affairs end and it's not usually like turning off a light. I think I am giving myself unreasonable expectations about the situation and once again wanting everything to be better RIGHT NOW. What do I know? I KNOW she's talking to him and lying to me about it. Do I know WHY she's lying? No. Do I KNOW she's continuing the affair? No, I FEAR it. I THINK they were together last Friday but I don't KNOW that they were. Is it reasonable or even smart for me to react emotionally on the basis of negative ASSUMPTIONS after all the effort I have already extended? I don't think so.

So plan A continues until I KNOW it's not working. I'm not through yet, anything is possible with God's help. I won't assume that a lie means EVERYTHING I see is a lie. I can assume good as readily as I can assume bad. I won't be swayed by my own fears and demons no matter how strong they are. I will be stronger for the sake of my beloved family and wife. I will be the man my wife and kids need and God will see me through no matter what the future holds.

Where would I be without you guys?

CD you are SUCH a decent man it makes me tremble with respect when i read your posts. I pray HARD and FERVENTLY that you be Blessed with righteous peace.

I will tell you now what some of my friend sthink is crazy.

When I didn;t know what the FREAK to do I stopped quaking and fretting and I waved up my hands to God.

I said " Lord, I'm all out of ideas. MOVE my arm to your plan Lord, FILL my mouth with YOUR words, SPARK your thoughts into my brain that YOU can bale me out of this mess to YOUR will. This is not faithful Lord, you know that. It is desperation. I'm screwed without you. Amen"

And i tell you now and folks on these boards will back me up after being PATHETIC at the beginning I HARDLY put a foot wrong in plan A and recovery after then.

God gave me the 23rd psalm in a personal revelation that still sets hairs up down my arms and neck.

Words we say so often but I had not TRULY inspected.

Sheep are too stupid and nieve to do the right thing. They stay safe and fed and loved when they stay close to the shepherd. He protects them from danger with his rod, and directs them to safety and food with his staff.

You, me, we are stupid sheep CD. Our intelligence is no use when we are such emotional messes. Be a sheep, Stick close to the Shepherd who WILL NOT let you down.HIS rod and staff WILL comfort you.

He WILL lead you through the valley of the shadow of death you WILL fear no evil for HE is WITH you. PROMISE not a hope. A PROMISE, hear me ???

HE WILL make you lie down in sweet peaceful pastures of HIS choosing. PROMISE ! NOT HOPE ! WILL not MAYBE!

Be a sheep. Stick Close to our Merciful Shepherd. He is faithful.

bless you bro'

23rd has always moved me bro. Just reread it again and I was moved to tears. I am putting myself in His hands more and more and He isn't letting me down. See how He moved His hand here . Praying on my knees now when I wake in the small hours of the night crying. Not in my time, but His. Not as I want, but as He wills it. Gotta believe, I DO believe. Is it bad to wonder where I am going?

We are His children. What do kids keep asking on a trip ?
" Are we there yet ?"
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Its OK to ask, CD, but the Driver knows the destination better than we can understand with ANY explianation now IME.

Hiya bro, good morning. Seems we lurk at the same times <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> How are you doing today?

I'm in the UK CD, so its midday for me. Squid's still in bed as she came in from nightclubbing at 4 this morning !! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm doing great ! My baby's in my bed, and adores me. My kids are fighting like a big sister and little brother should, the dog's barking and running wet pawprints in the house from the rainy grass and God's smiling on our near-normal house !

Never dreamed I'd get here, CD. We were screwed a year ago.In fact a few months ago.

Got a few challenges to deal with as I hit a new phase of recoery , but I realise what a privilege it is to be having surmountable problems in a good recovery than where I was while back.

You got a real blessing post on your linked thread CD. Use it well.

Bob:

I have to admit, squid coming in at 4 am in the morning from clubbing seems kind of funny.....nice joke, I hope. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

SM

Nope, not a joke.

She went out with some friends for her best friends birthday.

Had a great time too, until her BF confessed some marriage troubles.... club closed at 2, they talked in a coffee bar before getting a cab at 3:30.

We POJAed her night out. I have no problem with is as long as theres no chance of meeting OM (which there wasn't).

Why would I have any objection, LM? If she wants to pick up men, she can. I'd divorce her by the end of the same week.

I'm her husband, not her dad <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Two questions bro. First, are you that sure of Squid, or are you that sure of yourself? Or is it both? (This counts as one question, two parts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> )

Second, I am going from joyous determination to hang on to grim conviction that my marriage is unsalvagable. Am I merely experiencing a rougher part of the roller coaster or am I a vacillating, weak kneed coward? And would ADs help me decide? I am sorely tempted to lean on them.

Two questions with two parts but gimme a break please. It aint easy being me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

CD,

AD's can be of help. You are on the proverbial rollercoaster alright and that is normal. I do think you want to make the best decision you can make and that requires a clear head. It is often suggested that one not make a big decision for 6 months or so. I don't know about that time scale but do wait until the coaster dips seem a bit less extreme and AD's might be of use in this.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL