As most of you know, my H and I have been in happy recovery for 2 months now. Everything is progressing nicely except for 1 thing: SF.

Background: My H and I had GREAT (mind-blowing) SF for the first 2-3 years of our M. Shortly thereafter, I started noticing that my H was “using” porn. At that time, I didn’t think much of it since I thought all men browsed and/or used porn every now and then. From my perspective, so long as our SF was good, who cares? Maybe it could even enhance SF?? Well, after a little while, SF started to ebb, and later, became non-existent, and it remained this way for the past 6-7 years.

So, here’s our challenge: Since recovery, my H (with the help of our MC) has made tremendous strides in curbing his porn addiction. But, I know that it still exists, just to a much lesser extent. Again, I’m OK with some of that and probably can ignore it if our SF was there. The problem is we’ve been intimate only 3 times since recovery, and the experiences haven’t been very pleasant (to say the very least). In fact, we basically did what was suggested by the MC – to just do it in hopes that it will get better and more comfortable over time. Well, it hasn’t. In fact, it’s become this uncomfortable “thing” that is now affecting our recovery progress, and I’m so afraid that it’ll just push him back to using porn (and maybe it already has??). The odd thing is we both want SF, but we just don’t know how to fix it – to make it like the way it was 10 years ago.

The worst part is that was the one thing that was great about the OM. Talk about a sick trigger that can really mess w/ your head! Since recovery, my H has been so amazing in learning to meet all my other EN’s that I’m able to easily block everything out but this. I’m just terrified knowing that SF may stay like this for the rest of my life … and I’m only 32!

So, to the wonderful FBS’s and FWS’s: Can someone PLEASE tell me that 1) Did this happened to you right after NC/Recovery? 2) Were you able to “fix” it? And, if so, 3) How did you fix it? 4) How long did it take to get back to the point of “great SF”?

Also, I really would like to know what exactly the FBH’s (men) were thinking or feeling when it came to SF shortly after NC/recovery? What did your FWW do to help? If you could ask your FWW to do anything that may help with the SF recovery process, what would it be?

I know this is a sensitive and embarrassing topic for most of us, so thanks so much in advance for your suggestions, advice, expectations. They’re GREATLY appreciated!!

I'm a BW, although i don't have the male perspective: I thought I'd sahare. For us, a few weeks later was the first time, with encouragement from a counselor.

Within three-six months the sf was great, and I mean great. FWH would say I have to try to prove to you how much I love you, and this is a great way to hs show you. I still have passion and desire with you that I want to share he would say.

Now over 8 months into this, this are becoming more normal, a few times a week. Those first several months were very hard for me a few times. Until, I just decide to focus on what was going on in my bedroom.

V -

Thank you SO MUCH for sharing! I do wonder if SF is easier or harder for a man v. a woman? And, does it matter if the man or woman was the WS?

For some reason, I just can't seem to be able to fake it, even though I really do want to show my H how much I appreciate and care for him.

Also can I ask what you mean by "encouragement from a counselor"? I guess I'm looking for that encouragement too. If you're comfortable in sharing, what, exactly, did your counselor encourage you to do?

You said: "Until, I just decide to focus on what was going on in my bedroom." How does one do that?

Again, thank you so much for sharing. This really helps.

OK, folks, I'll confess one other thing - Back in college (when we 1st met), my H was perhaps one of the best looking guys around - slim, fit and muscular with a gorgeous square jawline. I remember a girl even stopped to ask if he was a Sylvester Stallone impersonator but changed her mind and said that he's better looking than Stallone. Note: He just finished basic training in the Army when we met. While I do know that looks don't last forever, my H has gained so much weight over the years that I find it somewhat grotesque when we make love. During our separation, he has made big strides in losing weight and dieting, but it seems like now we're back together, he's gotten off that fitness track again. I feel so horrible in even admitting any of this, but that is how I feel. Am I just sick and perverted in the head? Has anyone else experienced this? If so, how did you overcome it?

Whisper,

SF between couples is almost always a tricky balancing act to begin without adding an affair to it. One of the things that has helped my wife and I get into the mood is that we acknowledge to one another that there are NO expectations of sex when we start being tender with one another. This takes the anxiety and pressure off us to perform and lets us relax, enjoy one another with kissing and caressing and let the mood take us where BOTH of us want to go. When SF does happen, it is wonderful and creates a greater emotional bonding between us. We strive for quality, not quantity and I'd like to suggest that you and your H keep that in mind the next time you want to be physically intimate.

TMCM

Whisper your feelings are neither right or wrong, they simply are what they are. But maybe the reason why you may not feel physically attracted to your H is that you may be viewing his excess weight as a symptom of his not taking pride in his image to others and as a sign of hopeless personal defeat. Remember that although Dr Harley states that an Attractive Spouse is one of the top 5 emotional needs of most H, it doesn't mean that it isn't also a top one for a great many W as well. So talk to your H and gently explain to him that while it may not be possible to regain the body of his youth, he can still improve it and become a more attractive and confident man not only to you but to other women as well. Explain to him that you want him to be your 'trophy' H when the two of you go out and there are other women around. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

TMCM

Great advice on both accounts, TMCM. I know I can always rely on you in a pinch! {{{TMCM}}}

I guess I was just assuming that SF wasn't going well b/c my H may be thinking that I'm now this dishonest, polluted W who slept with some scum bag. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> And, who can blame him? And, part of it is I can't get over my own guilt. The horrible thought has popped into my head more than once during, and it just makes me sick, which, in turn, makes me not stay focus on the task at hand. Grrrr. I'm so mad at myself I can just spit blood! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

And, yes, we've had the "gentle" discussion on physical fitness. (I call it fitness versus attractiveness as I don't want to hurt his feelings.) I know it's a real struggle for him. The good news is he's starting to play some tennis w/ me again (we've not done that since college). And, when we move into our new condo, there's an indoor lap pool. We made a compromise that if he's willing to swim every day after work, I'll cook tasty, healthy meals for us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Like everything else, I'm hopeful that SF will continue to improve with time too.

If you don't mind my asking, do you recall how long it took the 2 of you to get to that "comfy place" w/ SF after NC/recovery?

Thanks again!!!

Just a couple of thoughts:
If someone was an alcoholic, or a drug addict...if ANY drinking or drugging still existed it wouldn't be ok. It wouldn't be ok because the individual is still using the substance in place of dealing with the real world.

It's much easier to hit a porn site and fantasize than to work on a real live relationship. Relationships have MUTUAL demands, needs, wants, desires, etc. Porn is geared towards satisfying the "observer". All it takes is a little "click" and...Presto...instant sexual stimulation/gratification!! No discussions about finances, intimacy, dirty laundry, relationship needs, etc.



Again, I will compare this statement to addiction. Having something (SF)be uncomfortable or not instantly satisfying is not grounds for going back and "using". Many will use it as an excuse..but that's what it is...an excuse. One gets to avoid dealing with difficult life issues....again.

From what I've heard and read, it does seem that many male BSs do have a very difficult time dealing with the physical act of sexual betrayal. I'm aware that I'm generalizing, but many males in our society are still quite performance driven. They are "doers", "action oriented". In much of the animal kingdom, males have to be physically aggressive, competitive, in order to "win" the rights to impregnate the females and lead the group.

Again, generalizing....Female BSs often are very upset by the emotional aspect of sexual betrayal. It is sometimes easier to know that the affair was "just a sex thing" then to know there was an emotional involvement/attachment....being "in love".

None of this is meant to minimize any aspect of an affair!!

One other very obvious aspect of difficulties with SF in trying to repair a relationship. Men can't hide their lack of desire...physical response, etc, the way a female can! Talk about a bit of "performance anxiety"!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Whisper, I've said it once and I'll continue saying it til they pry my coffee mug from my dead, cold hand [to paraphrase actor Charleton Heston]:

'Forgiveness is never for the benefit of the offender but is, and always will be, for the benefit of the offended'.

The WS is also a BS by his/her own hand for you wouldn't be having those feelings if you had not betrayed yourself and your principles. Just like your H, you must learn to let go of the anger and bitterness that you have against yourself. I can tell you firsthand that these two vile demons that spawned from your affair are a thousand times worse than the affair and the OM put together for unlike the latter, these two will follow you wherever you go no matter what happens to your marriage.

Like love, the word 'forgive' is a verb which implies a choice towards an action independent of emotion. You don't wait for the emotion to control your choice to act, you simply do it. Emotion should always be the follower of action, never its leader.


This is great news. The respect the two of you will have for your bodies will also have profound effect on your emotional wellbeings. Keep it up.


It will, it will but you two need to cut yourselves some slack and not force the issue.


Not at all. My story is totally unlike yours in that my XW [first W] was a serial cheater who was on a self destructive path. Not only was I being affected by it but our young daughters were as well. Since she wouldn't acknowledge the harm she was doing to all of us including herself, I chose to divorce her. I've since remarried to a woman who was once married to a male version of my XW [talk about irony]. But even after we fell in love, got married and became intimate, the 'ghosts' of both of our XS affected our love making. It dawned on us that if we did not force ourselves with regards to sex, that these 'ghosts' may go away. We talked about it and discovered that we were experiencing self doubts as lovers because our self esteems had taken huge hits from our XS infidelities. As I said in my previous post, we both acknowledged that we were not going to force or pressure ourselves into sex, and we would just relax and enjoy the kisses and caresses we would give one another and if the romantic mood became more intense then we would go from that point on. It tooks us approximately 3 months before we were able to have SF successfully using this approach. But as they say on TV, 'your mileage may vary'.

I beleive that if you haven't done it yet, it would be a good idea for you and your H to share your feelings of self doubt when it comes time for SF. He may be under the impression that you do not enjoy sex with him because your thinking about the OM. I'd bet that he would be very surprised to learn that what lies behind your trouble with SF with him has more to do with the feelings of shame, unworthiness and disgust you have for yourself for having given your body to another man. This sharing of your deepest thoughts and feelings [intimacy] may bring out the tender and caring side in him that may help you to free yourself of these negative feelings once and for all. It's worth a try, don't you think?

TMCM

* unhelpful ramble deleted.

Took me a while to consider Squid not polluted by OM.

Got better after I exploited the infidelity diet and became sexier too.

Helped me when I found out OM was in proportion to his 5'4" height everywhere and basically extremely selfish in the sack.

Your H needs to get healthy for his own self esteem W. Seems to me only good can come of that. I certainly feel sexier knowing I look and feel good in nice clothes now.

::::And, when we move into our new condo, there's an indoor lap pool. We made a compromise that if he's willing to swim every day after work, I'll cook tasty, healthy meals for us.

Whisper, can I be your H's swim coach?? I'm a huge fan of swimming and think the lap pool sounds great!

I'm quite sympathetic to your not finding your H attractive because of his weight, but I'm more concerned with your Hs health and quality of life. You have to make changes at home for him to acquire better lifestyle habits. Presumably you are Americans? Sorry, but I have to say that I am goggled eyed at the amount Americans eat and it's just so unhealthy to eat that much. You should investigate lifestyle diets that are sensible and healthy and not faddish so you can get your H eating properly first. He should be eating lots of vegetables and small portions of meat, skinless chicken and grilled fish. Fruit and not candy or chocolate or beer or soda's but fresh squeezed juice etc. YOU are in the best position to introduce these changes - that if adopted can and will add years of quality living to your H's life (and yours). You don't have to make this about sex, it's about you loving your H and showing him how much you love him by actions that will improve his longevity and quality of life. I cannot think of a more beautiful way for a WW to show her gratitude and appreciation to her BH than to help him get healthy.

Oh, btw I'm a 52 yrs old BW. I swim 2 kilometers 6 days a week plus I walk 45 minutes every day. My FWH and I do this together. We have regular sex - but to be honest, it's getting a bit repetative. Unfortunately it's hard to maintain great sex in a long term marriage - sexual fire is is more forthcoming in a fresh relationship. For older relationships it takes a lot more work. A determination to stay interested and read and learn about sex, staying open to ways of improving the sexual experience is imperative. Plus, being fit and healthy is a well known prerequisite.

After d-day we had sex every day for 2 yrs. It will soon be our 3rd d-day anniversary - and I am now thinking I am going to have to start reading about how to make our sex life more interesting. Jazz it up a bit. Create more atmosphere and more passion and perhaps more planning. But, whatever I do, I feel the sex that I have with my H can't and won't be as exciting as it would if I were to find a new partner. I feel that biologically we are made this way. Long term relationships have lots of benefits that are lacking in short term relationships - but hot sex isn't so easily generated in the long term relationship. It has to be worked at - whether your H is fat or thin, old or young etc.

You have two different issues here. Your H's health - and his lack of physicial attractiveness. Your sex life will not compete with what you had with OM on the excitment counter because affair sex is laced with extra hormones (nature is so cunning!) - but if you had stayed with OM and settled into a LTR with him, the hot sex would have eventually become mundane and you would have had to work at it too. See the problem? It's much nicer and healthier to put effort into the same person instead of trading them in every time the sex becomes dull or infrequent - because it's repition that is the problem. (maybe that's why men turn to porn and they tire very quickly of the same porn and are always looking for new images) Long term relationships offer so much more over all fulfilment so it's worth learning more about how to have good sex with your H.

Re the swimming.... Swimming firms up tired sagging flesh and gives it tone and form. But a good diet along with regular exercise and your sex life will start to improve - because your H will love his new body and new lease on life. Good luck!

AN

Whisper, I contemplated responding to this for some time and decided I should share some things with you.

My situation is somewhat different as my XW and I were separated and divorced for some time. I did not know that she had ended a year long affair prior to telling me “she isn’t “in love” with me, I want a divorce” in 1999. After that time our SF dwindled to little or nothing. It is at the top of my EN’s, not the act itself but the intimacy. When she met me in college I had just gotten off active duty Marine Corps and was in tip top shape. By the time we married I had gained 60 pounds (a life long struggle)…as our marriage continued it’s down hill spiral I decided to lose weight..for two reasons for her and me. I am the type that had to work out like a fiend to be 20 pounds over weight. It did not matter. We divorced, something I did not ever want. I went on the “divorce diet” and lost a ridiculous amount of weight. I also worked out up to 3 hours a day to handle my “rage”. It was part of my anger management. It worked wonders for me. When we first separated I dated (dated does not mean slept with to me, to her it did) and my STBXW, who filed and would not agree to just sepration, was FURIOUS and told me that she was “going to go out with the person who kept asking her”…that being the guy she had the EA with that ended a year prior to our divorce. I was crushed and had assumed that the PA had gone on for years. It was also at that time I heard of her “affair with a very wealthy customer”. This further crushed me. I never really knew this. I went dark. Only contact was for kids. After about 2 months I started dating. Heavily. It was not about sex. I just wanted to share things with someone of the opposite sex that did not despise me. I probably dated 20 women in a year. When I finally had a real relationship my XW, who had clearly been miserable for some time, started being friendly towards me. Was I attractive to her? I was too skinny, at a weight she never saw. I had gone from a size 38 pant to a size 30 (I’m back up to a 34, perfect). She also recalled I told her “it’s always on the table, XW”. You know where I am. I can not “just be a friend”. I also made it very clear I did not and would not cheat on my GF.

Over a period of time I found that I still did love her and I broke off a great relationship. She knows this and even after a year is intimidated by “all of your women, especially xxxxx”..Our sex life is insanely good. However, when she said to me “You’re different now, you’re so good” I was insulted, greatly. Nothing I did was different in my eyes. It haunted me because yes there are times that I am thinking of her with others, in the heat of it. She can’t tell but it happens and at times I get angry about it, I keep it to myself. She tells me that she thinks of me with others especially when I am being tender. It’s painful on both our parts. We know this but as time moves on it becomes easier .

Now, what is bizarre to me is that I am not intimidated by the dysfunctional sex she had with other men. Her and I are very complex sexually. She has said things that haunt me though. Discussion of her affairs often leads to shut downs on her part. She says “I can’t have SF when I don’t feel close to you”. Of course my thoughts go to “just how close where you to….?” I only asked once and she said it was “different”. She also says that she was not attracted to these guys. In my opinion she was way out of their leagues…meaning she was probablt the most attractive woman they had ever been with. I understand that cuase I too had been with women I was not “really” attracted to. Understand that my XW and I had incredible mind blowing SF before our problems in our marriage. It is even better now. Our haunts are in our heads. Your best SF tool is your brain… it should also be something that is natural and easily discussed. I am troubled by your ‘somewhat grotesque’ statement because he knows this by your actions. There is no better SF than when two people are in love in my eyes. You can feel it…and so can they.

I hope that this helps…not sure that it did..but it is somewhat therapeutic for me to get this out there….

Good luck Whisper…any “direct questions”…feel free to ask…

Many counselors recommend touching exercises to become comfortable with one another. I had to force myself to hold his hand, cuddle. Over time, it became much easier and natural.

Do you have a copy of after the afair? It does have some sections on SF that are just great for both sides.

It's very hard to get those thoughts out of your head, and his. The moment I had them, I would just tell myself that this was my time, my life. I focused on me, I became selfish. I tried getting into it, and he did to.

I do think it's harder for men though. Can you guys see a MC, they love to talk about SF.

Theres a new book on market that was on the best sellers list called, How to Make Love Like a Porn Star. I havn't read it yet, but would like to. I'm not sure how good it is, but a bestseller might be worth the read.

Oh, I love this site! So much good advice!!

HM - I believe you're right-on here. I will gently bring up the porn addiction topic w/ my H and see if perhaps he will go to counseling again. I know he's very ashamed of it, but I just don't want us to get back into the same, bad habits that made me vulnerable to an A in the 1st place.


TMCM - I guess I'm just not sure how to forgive myself. I know a big part is I have a hard time letting go of things too, including negative thoughts and anger. I will bring these things up in my group therapy session again this week and really, really work on it. I so want my M to work!! As for relaxing and taking our time re: SF, I'm just concerned that if things aren't going well in that dept for my H, that he may turn back to porn, then we're back at Square 1. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

"This sharing of your deepest thoughts and feelings [intimacy] may bring out the tender and caring side in him that may help you to free yourself of these negative feelings once and for all. It's worth a try, don't you think?"

>Frankly, I'm willing to try anything at this point. Should I be concerned that since my H doesn't know (and says he doesn't want to know) the full extent of my A, that bringing these things up will only make a bad situation worse?? I'm curious - how do men respond to these types of conversations? Meaning, how would you react if you heard your W talk about her having sex w/ another man?


Bob - "Took me a while to consider Squid not polluted by OM."

>Did this affect the quality of SF for you? Or is SF not as tied to emotions for men?

"Helped me when I found out OM was in proportion to his 5'4" height everywhere and basically extremely selfish in the sack."

>With this, I have to assume Squid actually talked about her A with you. Do you think it's a good thing for a FWW to discuss her PA openly w/ her BS? Does it not just make a fragile M that much more vulnerable?


Anyname - Thanks for your good advice. Actually, I'm the health-nut. I play tennis about 8-10 hours a week, walk our dog twice a day and love the taste of healthy foods. Always have. Plus, I've got the metabolism of a mouse, which I shouldn't take for granted. My H tends to be more of a home-body and loves anything carb or fried. This is why we made the compromise of my cooking while he's swimming after work. I will definitely look into recipes that are healthy AND tasty.

Also, I'm glad to hear your honest thoughts on SF. I'm curious - why is it that when we were dating in college, my H was so much more adventurous w/ SF, but not now? Is it b/c he sees me as his "wife" versus his "lover"? If so, how can I get him to see me differently?


Send - "She says “I can’t have SF when I don’t feel close to you”. Of course my thoughts go to “just how close where you to….?”"

>This is what I was afraid of. I'm nervous about bringing up the my PA b/c I feel it will just open another can of worms that he may not be able to deal with.

"Our haunts are in our heads. Your best SF tool is your brain…"

>How do you block out or remove those haunts?

"it should also be something that is natural and easily discussed."

>Are you suggesting that I do bring up the PA? What is acceptable/unacceptable to bring up to a BS?


V - "I had to force myself to hold his hand, cuddle."

>We're doing this now. For some reason, the hand-holding & cuddling feel natural, but the SF doesn't. I guess it does take practice.

"Do you have a copy of after the afair?"

>Do you mean Surviving An Affair? I just want to make sure I'm getting the right book. I'll be sure to get "How to Make Love Like a Porn Star". Sounds good to me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"would just tell myself that this was my time, my life. I focused on me, I became selfish. I tried getting into it, and he did to."

>Great advice. I will really try to do this next time.

"Can you guys see a MC, they love to talk about SF."

>We have, but my H is somewhat reluctant b/c he gets so embarrassed when we're on this topic, as it usually is tied to his porn addiction too. I think both subjects place a big damper on his "man-li-ness," as he calls it.

Whisper, I couldn;t bring myself to have SF for months after d-day. The thought was disgusting. We found ourselves having ( fantastic) needful des[perate SF a couple of times in the first few months after D-day but I felt terrible afterwards.

Squid was actually trying to hurt me with her words just after d-day ! She was joking with a friend who did not know about teh A and she was having girl smutty talk with her. She look to me and sneered " its not the size its what they do with it !"

This was a joke that I may be 'equipped' but not 'trained' if you catch my drift. After all I was a one-man woman and OM had three wives and tens of sexual partners in his life.

OM told GF absolutely everything after I exposed to her. One thing was SF was awful with Squid as he 'obviously disappointed' her. And she confirmed OM had a bb gun with an itchy trigger finger.

Squid HAS told me since that she never knew what she HAD in me till she went with this other man. I dunno if that trying to make me feel better but shes said nothing else to deliberately make me feel better at her expense so I can only assume it strue.

Whisper said:

"I will gently bring up the porn addiction topic w/ my H and see if perhaps he will go to counseling again. I know he's very ashamed of it, but I just don't want us to get back into the same, bad habits that made me vulnerable to an A in the 1st place."

And

"As for relaxing and taking our time re: SF, I'm just concerned that if things aren't going well in that dept for my H, that he may turn back to porn, then we're back at Square 1."


It seems to me that there is quite a lot of expectation/pressure being put on SF from reading the above: That if it is not good then, H will go back to porn. If H goes back to porn I am vulnerable to A.

I thought that the responsibility of protecting our vulnerabilities to an A is ours not our spouses, unless I'm at left field.

fG

Whisper- That was just an example. I WISH my XW would bring up her affairs. She NEVER has. I always do and it took me a long time for her to understand that me bringing it up is NOT a LB.

OK...here is an example of how, as a BS, I think. I asked her why she was attracted to him and she responded she "did not even find him attractive, he was nice to her and fun to be with but she did not feel that way about him." Now I have seen this guy and I would not get it for a minute. So I honestly asked her if it was "his money". She got furious and asked me if I thought she was a prostitute. So I thought about it for a while and explained to her I was insecure with his wealth. That I would never be the person with a private jet, mansion on the ocean, yahcts, (mind you we are pretty well off but no where close to that)...so I am insecure about it BECAUSE I WON'T EVER BE ABLE TO OFFER HER THOSE THINGS. I explain to her I need her to explain how it came to be him if it was not that. She said it was not about sex (I believe that), it was "he treated her nice"...which to me is pathetic, on her part and mine. Understand that I had to "pull teeth, threaten the lives of villages to get any information" so I am a bit bitter about the fact that she has actually "shared" very little about it. In fact she lied about it. It is a much larger issue with us. It was the relationship, the planning to deceive, the lies (during and LONG After)...

So...I think of her PA often...even when trying to engage in SF. However, what really struck me was . Look, it is what it is. I'd prefer all the cans got opened up rather than I find them and have to beg to get that can opened up. Their your "cans of worms"...For me it is important for her to know, from me, how I feel. You should feel the same way. Just because you're a FWW doesn't mean he should not know what you're thinking...in fact I insist upon it...Communication issues were one of our biggest issues prior to our D.



You don't...I don't think you can block them and they're almost impossible to remove. It's a scar Whisper...scars fade... What I have found is that they happen much ...much less for me than shortly after D-day. You know how when you're so into each other that the room can be in flames and you don't know it? Well...I'm not thinking about her PA or anything other than her at that point <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ..

No I was talking about discussing sex being natural. When I was in my early 20's I dated women in the early 30's. They taught me a lot about ...well they taught me a lot, mainly that it is not all about me. So I grew comfortable learning and discussing SF....and grew from it.

I can't speak for others. Hell, I don't know the answer to that question because there are times I don't want to know and then I do. The way I look at it is I am on a roller coaster and some times I'd doing the driving..it's not all her....does that make sense?

Hope this again verbose response assists you. It does help me too...keep asking....

Well, looks like the concensus here is to talk about it.

Bob - Thanks for sharing your pain with me. I know it's not easy, but it really helps me understand.

FG - "the responsibility of protecting our vulnerabilities to an A is ours not our spouses"

>Actually, the responsibility rests on both shoulders. I've learned that it's my responsibility to let my H know what my needs are and how to meet them, and it's my H's responsibility to try to meet them as best as he can - and vise-versa. This is how we can protect each other from an A. Please understand that my intention here is NOT to justify my A in any way. I've done something terribly wrong and will regret it for the rest of my life. My intention now is to progress our recovery. While we can't ever say "never," I, knowing what I know now, would opt for a D long before I go for another A if things didn't work out. With all that we've been through, I just don't want us to ever to get to that point. That's why I know I have to address these issues.

Send - Thanks for the clarification. Your explanation and story helped tremendously! When it's appropriate, I will bring it up and see how much my H really wants to know. I also agree with you in the fact that my H and I need to be more open to discussing SF. We are both very conservative people and have never discussed this openly before. I hate to bring the OM up again, but that was one thing that I think made SF that much better - he was willing to talk about it. Since we both were so inexperienced in this dept, learning what works/doesn't work was huge.

Thanks again to everyone. I know we've got a lot of work ahead of us, and I truly appreciate everyone's insights and answers to these very sensitive topics. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm sure I'll be back w/ a few more ?'s.

Whisper,

Please let me add my .02.

Geeze had a 2 year PA with a slim, sweet talking, guy from AZ who was 10 years younger. He would fly into town and she would meet him at Best Western/Motel 6 for a full day of sexual adventure. I found out 05/31/04 and contact ended. Maybe the A had run its course.

We have had sex (I won't call it SF) 5 times since Dday. The first 3 times I think I was begging for it because of the pain I was feeling, being on the rollercoaster et al. She then did not want physical contact because SHE felt so dirty and ashamed. Sooo OK?

ANYWAY!!! I watch a movie where the people are making love and think/envision the scene at the Best Western! Sometimes these thoughts are very overwhelming...like right now as I type this.

I too am overweight, and keep telling myself I will start the regime. I look at myself in the mirror and groan!! So there is that too.

I think your H cannot help compare himself to the OM...even if he has not seen him. Plus the movies in his head must drive him away from you (even subconsciencly) and to the porn. He can always be the best lover ever on those sites.

What would happen if you had him go to the porn site and be there with him and then.....whatever?? Sorry, may be too extreme.

My point is the A, with you being sexually active with the OM, (best freaking sex ever..correct?) is causing your H much more pain and anxiety than he is letting you know about.

Speaking about the PA, truthfully and how great it was, is not going to help. Telling him how bad the OM would help but is not the truth.

He needs to lose weight, like I do. I think, boy if I had a slim younger woman to meet once a month to have hot intense sex with, I would sure go for it!!.....maybe...maybe not..probably not!!

k

krusht,

"Speaking about the PA, truthfully and how great it was, is not going to help. Telling him how bad the OM would help but is not the truth."

>That's what I was afraid of. I guess I just don't know what I'm supposed to say and not say that will help the situation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

"What would happen if you had him go to the porn site"

>Years before my PA, I've asked my H to share his "interests" w/ me. Note: our SF interests are vastly different, and (unfortunately) I don't find his interest at all appealing nor arousing for that matter. After a while, it just felt like he had to have the videos or internet in order to even want to have sex w/ me. Needless to say, my self esteem dropped to nothing. So, in order for me to "get into the mood," I then would have to intoxicate myself, which didn't do much for his ego either. What is wrong w/ us? Why does all this have to be so darn hard??!! I thought men wanted sex all the time?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

"you being sexually active with the OM, (best freaking sex ever..correct?)"

>Actually, when I first met my H, our SF was pretty mind-blowing too. In fact, I think it was even better b/c I was madly/blindly in love with him. Just not sure where it all went. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I wonder if it's because it was new and somewhat "forbidden" back then too? (We went to a strict, Southern Baptist college.) That can't be right. We had it pretty good a year or 2 after we got married. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />