My bad. I didn't look closely enough at the times.

Your original post was specifically directed to patriot which would infer that you were not posting for public opinion. You were throwing cyber crumbs at him and he was responding from within the same house.

THIS is what I find childish and immature.

Is there an expectation for board members to hitch a ride on one of your band wagons? Is that the purpose of posting your marital conversation here?

There is a couple on EN that occasionally handles matters in this way. It's very passive aggressive and most often does more harm than good.

All,

Please accept my apology for allowing my emotions and my anger, in particular, get the best of me today.

I'm truly sorry.
I will apologize to my husband when I get home, so as not to further communicate in this manner with him.

Again, I apologize...

Froz

Froz....

((((HUGS))))))

You know we love you guys....

I think sometimes one of the hardest things to recover from in the aftermath of an A is 'trusting' what your spouse is saying. Interpretation and perception can be strong influences.

This thread really frightened me for you guys because it was so similar to some things my exH and I used to 'air' out on here. And in the end, he quit posting, and in spite of that, we never learned how to communicate respectfully, and truly believe what the other person was saying.

I am glad you both are in MC. But I think you both need to be in IC as well. When you start to take the focus off what the other person is or isn't doing to 'heal' you, then you begin to address your own true issues. Oddly enough, it seems to have a 'trickle down' effect into the M. And you both have a chance to see and feel the changes within your spouse. This helps to build trust.

In all honesty, as I was reading this, I kept thinking...."This thread has all kinds of LB's, DJ's, and little passive aggressive 'pot shots' at each other." And it all seems to stem from anger - Froz, your anger towards Pat....and Pat, your anger/guilt of yourself. Please also get into IC and try to find healthy outlets for these feelings (instead of hurting one another), and work on healing yourself first. The healing of the M will follow.

Good luck, you guys!

Wow...

I guess I'm pretty bad off when BS's and WS's tell you that you have issues... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I didn't even get an "all of this is relatively normal" today.

I could explain my behavior, but background info will still not provide an excuse. Again, I apologize.

It feels a little weird piping in here, to what is pretty much a personal conversation between a husband and wife, but since you guys put in on the boards, I guess it's fair play(?)

What's very frustrating to me is this:

Pat, compared to 90% of the WS's here, you have it pretty "easy," or so it seems... Froz has stated to The World that she loves you and is committed to resolving the issues and making your marriage work. And, she's giving you a paint-by-numbers picture of what she needs to get there... not bad!

You BOTH want it to work.

Pat, what is stopping you from effectively doing this with your wife:

"I love you, I want this to work every bit as much as you do. WhatEVER it is you need/want/desire from me in the process of recovering, moving on, and building from this day forward a marriage we BOTH can be proud of... I will bend over backwards to understand what you need/want/desire from me, and even if I DON'T understand it, I will bend over backwards to DELIVER."

Sorry to intrude... I mean no disrespect whatsoever. And I wish you both -- together -- the very best.

tqt,

I thank God you "intruded"!

I feel so misunderstood sometimes here, and while I said I wasn't going to explain my behavior - after reading your post, I think I will.

My original line of thinking when I began this thread was "We are stuck - big time." I really thought that if I opened up a line of discussion we could get some kind of different perspective regarding how to get unstuck.

Unfortunately, it was misunderstood and only turned into a whole lot of anger on my part, along with disrespect and resulted in hurting my husband and making everyone here uncomfortable. That was SO not my intent. That one seriously blew up in my face.

We had a very long talk (face to face) tonight about conflict avoidance.

The comment you made about the "paint by numbers" thing made me feel very understood, and I appreciate that more than you know. Not because it made me feel like someone took my side or anything like that. It just felt very good to feel understood.

I thank you for that.

I really didn't mean to make anyone here uncomfortable, nor did I intend to be childish or immature. I definitely didn't want to hurt my husband, either. I was just looking for solutions, that's all.

Froz

Froz,

I feel compelled to respond...

Feeling misunderstood, in a word, sucks!

I've been thinking about this...

You guys seem like you're SO CLOSE to getting over that hump, but there's one thing missing on one side of the equation (or it's there, but not manifesting itself in the best way)...

and I think it's humility(?)

tqt,

I'm a bit confused...would you mind elaborating?

Been racking my brain over this one. I even looked up the definition for humility:


Marked by meekness or modesty in behavior, attitude, or spirit; not arrogant or prideful.
Showing deferential or submissive respect: a humble apology.
Low in rank, quality, or station; unpretentious or lowly: a humble cottage

I'm still stumped (I'm kinda slow that way sometimes).

To me ... applied to this situation ...

humility = not needing to be "right" and declare one's self "the winner"

also ... for certain ---> humility before God ... as in loving each other as God loves us

that's my take

Am I doing that...just trying to be right?

I donno ... I was just giving my opinion of how humility is a part of marriage in general and recovery in particular.

I see. I hope that my asking if it was me wasn't perceived by anyone as defensiveness.

In fact, all the better if it were...because THAT I could do something about and I really just wanted an honest assessment from a different perspective so as to find a solution.

I'm sorry, Froz!
I missed your post... and reading over what I said earlier, I agree that I was a bit cryptic.

Thank you Pep.

Yes, that's pretty close.

Let me explain how I got to "humility."

Two people, husband and wife, committed to:
each other
resolving the issue(s)
creating a solid, rewarding marriage

In my earlier post, I was just trying to figure out what stands between What-Is and What-Could-Be, and what you've both said you want!
So doesn't it come down to the methodology, procedure, give-and-take, etc... HOW to get there?

And if one of the two of you is... kinda stuck, in a way... not getting what you feel you need to get there... what's keeping the other from bending over backwards to provide the missing piece(s)?

That's where I got to Pride -- I couldn't think of any other reason. And as far as I'm concerned, humility is on the other side of the same coin.

Does that make any sense(?)

And aside from all that gibberish.... how's it going??

Yes, it makes sense.

I'm failing miserably.

All I seem to do is make him uncomfortable and unhappy, and frustrated.

I feel stuck because I know everyone thinks I should get over this. Maybe I should be further along than I am right now. I don't know. I probably should be. I just don't seem to be able to get there. I try...and there are good moments sometimes, but then I just slide right back down.

Things are not good and lately they seem to be spiraling out of control...all these crazy things happening...all this [censored] to deal with - the pregnancy, my contact with OW's OM#2. I am supposed to meet with OW on Tuesday. This is all just pretty overwhelming.

Maybe I am causing it. I don't know. What I do know is that I am making him VERY unhappy and that doesn't feel good. It seems the only way I can make him happy is to pretend like everything is okay. I hate being fake. I never can seem to do it for very long. It's just not my nature. I'm not sure what the heck to do at this point.

I'm kind of down tonight...does it show? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Gosh...I got censored!!! It wasn't even that bad of a word! Don't want everyone thinking I'm a pottymouth! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Froz, consider that a virtue.

And on the pride thing -- it wasn't you that I was thinking about.....

And stop bragging <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Froz, my friend, you seem to be doing just fine to me!

A far cry from the sad bird status just two weeks ago! Do you remember? I'm digging this peppy gal attitude. And yeah -- I like the discerning difference between humility and choosing to just not care so much about being "right".

IMHO, you've been humbled by life enough to last you a while longer before you start in with the heavy self-abasement again. So don't do it! Pat doesn't want you humble. He wants you strong and proud -- just not at the expense of his feeling strong and proud too.

And umn, not that you need to be reminded, but when the real deal is just not there, false humility isn't becoming. (Not on either of us! *smile*) but instead, a little faking of happiness would go a long way for you right now. The return for a little bit of insincerity (for a very good cause) will be exponential!

I really didn't think you said anything bad here. It was maybe just time to decide -- do you want to be happy or do you want to be right? You are SO on the right track!

Sal

Froz

FWIW I am a year past d-day now, doing well by every measure and yet I can't really verbalise what I want or need Squid to do now.

Just "More-er, right-er stuff".

I hat having to be in recovery. Have a good recovery is like being in remission from cancer IMO: you're pleased, but you're scared and would rather not have had cancer at all.

Pep tells me theres a bad hump at 8 months ish amd another at a year-15 months. I have to have faith to believe I'll get over this hump.

All blessings froz & pat

Sorry...that wasn't very humble of me, was it?