I’ve followed Fox’s story since it started, and maybe I’m still missing something, but why is there such a hard push here for him to cut his losses and run? Granted I know that would be the easiest thing and would make his life (especially considering he’s still in school) much more bearable, but I see a mentality that since they’re so young and have only been married for a year and a half that the marriage is worth less than if those circumstances were different.

I know that there may have been an A here (and if so my point has no validity), but so far there is no solid proof of it. There is behavior that points in that direction, but nothing concrete. If the proof were there, I’d have to agree that starting over without Shannon would be the best thing to do, but it seems strange to suggest that on the assumption that she’s involved with someone else. And the fact that this situation is still relatively new….she moved out 6 weeks ago. Seems premature to me to just end a marriage on a 6 week old assumption.

Granted, I am looking at this from a Christian standpoint, and I know that’s not the direction that everyone comes from, but I think Fox does. Is an 18 month marriage any less important to God than a 20 year marriage? Do the vows not kick in until a certain time?

Anyway, I’m just curious about this. Not trying to make waves, just asking.

Edited to say that I don't think that Fox should keep doing what he is doing, because it's evident that it's isn't working. He needs to take more drastic steps to show his W that he's not the same man and that he can live without her, but with the end goal in mind of reconciling the M. If more info comes out about any R she may have had with an OM, then that changes everything.

but why is there such a hard push here for him to cut his losses and run?

I will answer for myself...

I made that comment to Fox quite a few threads ago. I threw that out there because I am witness to the mentality of 20/22 year old "kids". They might be "adult" in the eyes of lawmakers, but in the eyes of parents, they are still acting with the "kid" mentality. It is NOT unheard of for kids to rush into things that they are NOT prepared to handle...or follow through with. They are still making mistakes...and rushing into a marriage can be just that...a mistake.

They shouldn't be forced to stay in a marriage(vow or no vow) under those circumstances.

Is an 18 month marriage any less important to God than a 20 year marriage? Do the vows not kick in until a certain time?

People make mistakes...kids are sure to make mistakes. I don't think that this falls under that umbrella.

JMHO
committed

High road.

Dr harley himself advises a cut and run if there are no kids, the protagonists are very young and behaviour is already unreasonable.

I am a Christian, but also a father and in a very few years my daughter will be 20. I know what I would advise her.

Fox

my W & I married at 18 & 20 and have been togther since then. I feel it was the very clear desire on both our parts to be together from day 1 that worked for us.

Had one of us been less committed to this then we would not have made it.

I feel from your posts from day 1 that Shannon is NOT committed to your M, feels she M too early, & doesnt want the responsibility ........some people just dont, ever.

Thats in addiiton to her affair and Fox shes's having one, either with one OM or a number. The typical singles fantasy of the fogged.

But she may be able to change but be prepared to accept she may not.

I agree with Aussie...my wife and I married when we were around your age. BUT...we were both very committed to each other and to our family. We had kids immediately, and were both in very different points in our lives by the time we were that age. I was already a career man in the military...had already done a LOT of growing up by the time I met my wife. She had already been married and divorced...she too had done a lot of growing up before she met me.

We didn't really start having ANY kind of trouble until I reached a point where my work started to occupy >85 hours/week. But once we got through that, the troubles disappeared for years until we got to the point in the last two years.

I have voiced a similar concern here, my friend. You're both so young, and the issues have started so early in your marriage that I wonder how much more growing up (maturing) that one or both of you may need in order to truly be able to have a healthy stable marriage.

Pray about it. Ask God what He wants to happen here...and listen hard for His answer.

Good luck my friend.

ROFLMAO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

God does not make distinctions. If He did, then where is the cut-off point where the marriage is no longer in a trial period and is a real marriage? One year? Five years? Twenty years? This is a slippery slope here.

God does not distinguish. You are married the moment you say "I do." As married as the couple who celebrates their 35th wedding anniversary the same day. God says He bound the husband and wife together. And He does not make mistakes. We do, sure. But He doesnt. That is why He says that whatever He binds, man should not try to unbind. Only He has the authority to do that.

I dont discount the points about his wife's immaturity. These are huge hurdles. But this marriage is as valid and as worth saving as any of ours.

So, when we speak of God, be careful. He says in Malachi "I never change." He still feels about marriage today the same way He did when He created it. This is why if you do not have a divorce that is on God's terms, and then you go out and marry another...you are committing adultery.

We Christians should stick with Biblical advice, as God is never wrong. When we second guess God, we ALWAYS fail.

In His arms.

hmm...

I suppose you would tell a physically abused woman that she would be wrong to leave a marriage also...huh?

The last I remember the only reason for leaving a marriage (according to the Bible) is for infidelity.

I was just giving MY opinion on the subject.

I must have missed the diclaimer "Only BIBLICALLY SUPPORTED opinions are to be posted."

Just for clarification...your response to me has rubbed me the wrong way so it would probably be best that I remove myself from the thread since I do not want to get involved in some type of religious debate on who is right and who is wrong.

There is a reason for God giving us the ability to "reason". Not EVERYTHING is covered in the Bible. Sometimes we are left to think for ourselves...that's the way God intended.

committed

Committed,

Actually, most if not all would tell a physically abused woman to leave, seek help and if H will not undergo therapy and counseling, to divorce him. But I agree with MM that a marriage is a marriage, no matter how ill-advised.

Fox is very young, his W even younger, my own kids are older. The point is that she is NOT willing to work on the marriage, she wants to date other men, she has had an affair or two, and Fox has done plan A to the best of his abilities.

It is decision time, and she has made the decision. The only issue left to consider is whether Fox is going to fight HER decisions or leave the marriage. Actually, he really doesn't have that choice either as she can divorce him anyway.

Frankly, with no children, given their age, and how much each of them are going to change in the next ten years, I would counsel that Fox call it a day.

Fox you made some very strong statements and good ones about fighting for what you believe in and not giving up. I like that attitude and I think it will help you thorughout your life. I like your sense of commitment as well for someone your age it is rare.

The next thing to learn has already been suggested. And that is to learn when to pick you battles. YOu have already figured out that if you are going to battle you fight to win. That is good, but the next level of maturity is knowing when to go to battle and here is where you need to search your mind AND your heart.

You made some interesting observations about your W and her mother. I can assure you from 6 decades down the road, the fruit does not fall far from the tree. You are very likely to be married to someone just like her mother. Given what has happened, what is happening, it is not hard to predict what will happen, given her family of origin issues.

Just some more data for you to use in deciding about this particular battle.

God Bless,

JL

Actually, most if not all would tell a physically abused woman to leave, seek help and if H will not undergo therapy and counseling, to divorce him

Exactly...and the Bible does not say it is OK to divorce if there is physical abuse involved. It says it is ok when there is adultery. Biblical support is at a pick and choose it seems.



Frankly, with no children, given their age, and how much each of them are going to change in the next ten years, I would counsel that Fox call it a day.

That is what I think too...I think it makes it easier when so little time is vested in the marriage too (as in 18 months vs 18 years). Lord knows it makes it less complicated when there are no children involved also.

She sounds like she is still in a dating mindset...and that never bodes well for a marriage....especially when it is Other Men that she wants to date. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

committed

Didn't mean to open a can with my observations. I simply wondered because mine was a similar situation. My W and I married at 21 and 20. Granted her A didn't happen until our 4th year of marriage, but we still had no kids, and the A continued for a year after Dday.
I had people (not here...didn't spend enough time here during that year) tell me my best recourse would be to start over. All I can say is that I'm glad I didn't listen to that.
In reading through the IM conversation in this post I saw so many things that my W told me over a couple of years. All of the "I" this and "I" that and the blaming me for the problems and if I (meaning me) had just done this or that, that things would be different, and we just married too young (maybe true, but we were still married). It's all the same crap (mixed with some seeds of truth) whether it's coming from a 20yo or a 50yo.

Granted, Fox's wife is extremely young and immature (as were me a my W when we got married) and has no idea of what being a W means (again, personal experience)...I just don't agree that that should be the basis for D. If there's proof of an A, that should be the basis.

This M can be saved. Whether or not Shannon will allow it hasn't been fully seen yet. But they can get through this and mature together and learn what it means to be husband and wife. It was a long, painful journey for me and my W, but now it's all worth it when I look at her and my 6 week old daughter.

The Marriage Builder's philosophy is that in the process of trying to save a marriage, an individual will come out of the experience a better person, if the plan is followed.

Fox is pretty early in this experience, and could learn a lot about himself, and gain a tremendous amount of insight into what he can improve on what he personally brings to a marriage, and what a healthy marriage looks like.

If he goes through this process, and the marriage fails in spite of his earnest efforts, he will still emerge from the experience a better man.

Just my 2 cents worth...
SD

Guys - I want to reply to your posts extremely badly; but its noon, I woke up late and am in no way prepared for my W's showing up. She will be here in an hour and I haven't been able to write a Plan B letter; I tried all last night but couldn't come up with anything.

Reading what all of you are saying is making me wonder about just telling her when she leaves today that a decision needs to be made - either she's committed to giving us a shot and staying true to me; or she can go meet other men and I will disappear forever. I don't know how she'll take to that.

This is all so confusing; I've gone from anger, to fear, to complete and utter sadness, to indifference, to confusion, - auugh!!

Would me sending a Plan B letter in the mail still be okay? Or should I hand her something in person?

Now I'm caught in the middle of a debate looking for advice and I'm lost! Ah, snap!

There is no rush... Better the Plan B letter be right, than just delivered. Get through this then return to the forums. Mortarman is a Plan B guru. Lean on him for help with your B letter. Better it's done with focus and concentration, not to mention coaching, rather than rushed and wrong.

JMHO
SD

she just called again...now she's not coming until 7pm tonight. Said she was stuck at the DOL with her dad getting the car turned over into her name; she told me she was doing this two weeks ago and that she couldn't do anything then because of it.

Does that mean that you have caught her in a lie since she has already used this excuse? If so, then I would take it as further sign of an A. People with compromised integrity and character lie.

Here! Here!

The fruit not only doesn't fall far from the tree..sometimes it never falls.

Not to TJ but Fox, my EX-MIL did the same thing to my EX-FIL that my WWXW did to me. Cheating that is.

At the same place, same day, same time only 30 years later.

Hows that for a heaping helping of Karma?

Don't be afraid to include the family in your decision process, I wish I would have.

Well Trix; this was an e-mail from her from July 9th...

hey, sorry that i haven't called you back. i have been tremendously busy at work and have just been so exhausted. anyway, i have work tomorrow at 11am, so if you want to call me tomorrow sometime before 10am, you can. if not, i have monday and tuesday of next week off, but i can't make any plans just yet because i need to fix up the car this week. i am going to go see about getting a muffler put on the car sometime early monday and then see if i can meet my dad for lunch on tuesday so that we can go and get my tabs. i'm also going to put in for a new title so that my dad can transfer the car into my name. so, even though i have time off, our time to spend together this week may be limited. things should be better next week when i don't have the car to worry about. if you want to tag along with me on those days, i don't mind, but we can coordinate something when my schedule is a little bit more clear. anyway, i have to run and go check on kimahri. he is outside right now on his harness and i want to make sure he's not strangling himself or something...lol. talk to you soon...

~shannon

p.s. call me so tomorrow or monday if you can so we can figure out what is going on.

--------------------------------------------------

Who knows....

Wife just emailed me...she went home because her mom was going to make dinner (at 3?)?? Just emailed me back; told me she was pissed because her mom never came home - said she won't be down here until 7.

Fox - same with me - my WW did the same thing to me her mom did to her dad. I am still fighting for the M.

Something to consider - just to muddy the water.

What if things kinda work out for the next 6 months. Then go south again - (i have not followed your post too closely - but a lot of folks seem to think Shannon is quite immature) (immature is not a sin - it is not wrong - it is innate in young people)

So things work out for 6 months, then she decides to take off again. And the cycle continues....

Ok - now think of this - you two reconcile next week - things are great for a couple of months - and then she sees the blue line.

Just a thought. Consider how all of this will affect a child.

Think of how all of this drama would affect a child. I know you have. I know you have been the child.

Time is on your side. If she goes - then you possibly loose something great - or you possibly loose your mother in law. Or two of them, if you catch my drift.

I have kids. I MUST fight for the marriage. But if I did not....

Please forgive any disrespect for your MIL or Shannon - I am a stranger to you and have very little right to give you any advice. Take it for what it is worth.

I have read your story, and am equally impressed with you as others here. You have got the equivalant of ten good mothers and ten good fathers worth of advice here. Many of these people obviously care about you. Thanks for bringing your sitch here.

Good luck!
Pray hard!

far