I really don't want to share this, but if I can help you--it's worth the embarrassment. It all happened a long time ago, but here goes.

I am a former wayward spouse. I had an affair over seven years ago. It was a terrible, awful thing to do. And it all seems so bizarre to me now...

Here's my perspective from reading your last post. You say that SHE tried to contact HIM... Well, in my head, thinking back, it was only after my relationship with the OM became physical that I ever tried to contact him. He'd pretty much been the pursuer, aggressor and initiator of all contact up until that point. Once we'd actually crossed the line from EA to PA I needed reassurance from him that I hadn't been used... of course, I had been used.

The other thing I want to tell you is that my affair was also fairly brief. I'd heard of him for years... met him in December, started seeing him inappropriately in January, and by March it was all over. But even though it was brief it was very, very addictive from Day #1. It's just overwhelming. It's crazy.

So please don't underestimate the complete insanity your wife might be undergoing right now. Even though it hasn't been going on that long (as far as you know) she might still be in a very powerful undertow.

If you leave town, have her watched. Monitored. She can't be trusted. I could not have been trusted. I'm sorry to be this blunt... I'm glad she's being as open as she is with you... but I'm still saying... use the short leash. Okay?

Thanks Elle that's a really good insight. I think that may be what's happened here. Physical or not, to me it seems about as destructive to the M either way. But that emotional attachment WW has for OM!

The fogtalk from WW - my only source of info - has made it hard to sort out what's going on. Most of my previous posts seem to have been off target.

It now seems that WW was very emotionally upset when OM sent her a NC letter Monday. I really don't like that she was so upset; bad bad sign I think. Then Tuesday night - after she says she'd been unable to reach him on the phone - and sent him her OWN NC letter - she seemed happy and content for a change. Ditto Wed and Thurs. Does that make any sense? Could be Susan is right. If so I hate that. Or could it be relief on her part that they'd mutually ended it?

I'm glad OM is a playboy and appears to be close to dumping WW. Hopefully in a few months she will have nearly forgotten about him.

In the meantime I'll do whatever I can to make it hard for her to see him again, I guess that includes cancelling my trip with the kids. Although if I could get his name and contact info that would be a big win as well. Whistles seems to think so too. Is that a good trade? I get the info I need, WW gets the few days she says she really needs? MC thinks it's a good idea..

Another question: Is there anything I can/should do to tarnish WW's thoughts and memories of this rascal? I know I'm supposed to be the best husband ever and make the contrast stark that way, but is there anything I can do to smear OM in WW's mind? Or is that pressing too hard..

Yet another Q: WW is making sounds like - rather than a family vacation - she wants to take the kids to visit her relatives 500+ miles away w/o me in a few weeks. Is that a good idea, or do I really need to wow her with a fancy vacation we all really really enjoy this year?

Thanks as always;

Anything derogatory you say right now about the OM with blow up in your face. Just don't do it! It is wholly counterproductive. If anything bad is to be said about the OM, let it come from her own lips. Then she'll believe it. But not from yours. Dead serious on this one!

A lot can happen in a few weeks, so hold off on fancy vacation plans.

Your best plan right now is Plan A. Have you found a keylogger and phone recorder yet? In the next 4-5 days you need to find out who the OM is, and expose to his W or Significant Other (SO). This will help kill the affair quicker than ANY other step you can take! Focus on this for now.

If you haven't bought "Surviving an Affair", you need to get a copy ASAP, so as to better understand all this information we are posting to you.

No LoveBusters, just a strong Plan A. Continue with the introspection, and make strong, permanent decisions to change those things about you which contributed to your marriage being vulnerable to an A. This, my friend, is critical. Even ask your WW what things about you might have become a "wall" between her and you. Listen to, and validate her responses. She will give you some direction on how your contributions to the marriage can be more favorable to mutual agreement.

If you can check her cell phone records, that might give you some help finding out who the OM is. Also check the "redial" feature on your phone...as some of them store more than one number. Look for recurring numbers, then google "anywho" and you can do reverse lookups, on land lines, not on cell phones.

Snooping, at this point is a good thing, trying to find out who the OM is, however, getting caught snooping, is not a good thing, so be careful and discreet!

Best wishes,
SD

We,

Getting OM/OMW info is important, because you need to expose to OMW. Exposure is necessary for 2 reasons; destroying the affair and giving the OMW much needed info.

Listen to the other posters about getting a keylogger or at the very least try to get OM's name and work. The other benefit to OMW knowing is you may have someone to help you hold your WW accountable for her actions....if this A should continue.

" Another question: Is there anything I can/should do to tarnish WW's thoughts and memories of this rascal? I know I'm supposed to be the best husband ever and make the contrast stark that way, but is there anything I can do to smear OM in WW's mind? Or is that pressing too hard.."

To say anything to your WW about OM at this point will only make things worse. She will not see things the way you do. The more you point out what a sh#tty person this guy is...the more she will see it as a reflection of herself.

FYI....my husband does blame himself for the A, however, it took 6 months or so before he was willing to say the OW was an immoral person. Everytime I brought up what a skank she was because she sleeps with MANY married men, my husband would say she was just "lost" and that the A was completely his fault. The more I brought it up...the more defensive and angry he would become about even discussing OW.

Now, he is completely ashamed and humiliated that he not only caused pain in our family, but that he was with a woman who is shameless and preys on married men like my husband. He feels frustrated at times that he lost sight of us and was taken in by this skank.

BTW...There are many people who do fall off the path and have an affair, and I think very highly of the ones that have recovered....my OW is not one of them. She is a real monster.

Anyhoo.....hang in there. Do the things you normally do: play with kids, have dinner....ect...Don't feed into the rest until you know she's really back from planet alien.

Be available and considerate....but try not to be a doormat. (I'm not saying you are) It's hard during this time to not try to do everything you can to bring them back. She will come back to you.....you're doing all the right things.

Plan A Plan A Plan A......

Good luck,
Rachel

Hi. I am a ws. And have had Dday w/ BS (12 days ago). I am posting this because I am in your wife's shoes.

My A was longer than your wife's, but I can tell you one thing... the people here are right on about A). your wife is in a fog right now and reacting as if in an addictive state. She needs to make a firm commtment (i.e. no contact, and to understand that SHE as well as you can't move forward is she makes contact), B). She needs firm consequences in place (Plan A and B), and C. She needs to work with your support on this (i.e. focusing on the future and meeting each others top 5 emotional needs).

My husband has to take an unscheduled trip next week. I know it is going to be very difficult for me emotionally -- I went to OM for attention/support (which I am now trying to negotiate with my husband) and I will now be on my own for the week. What will keep me honest in my most weak moments is the ramifications of plan B. I've already done enough damage to my relationship -- I don't need to add the fall out of my work situation, some friendships, om's family, my extended family, etc. The desire for contact is there, but the fog has lifted enough to realize what the cost is. I know this sounds very selfish -- what about my BS? Isn't my concern for him enough to stop me? Honestly, that is why I am writing this... in the withdrawl process, I am not sure it is. Good luck to you.

shattered dreams is right do not say anything derogatory about the other man it will not do you any good. He is more important to her than you are right now and I am speaking from experience when I say that there aren't alot of things that hurt more than listening to your own wife defend the pond scum that has ruined your life!!

It must be frustrating reading this thread; it's such a moving target! Little or no info to go on is frustrating for me as well as you may imagine.

Tonight I asked WW if she could share some the content or least the flavor of her private conversations with neighbors, her relatives and MC. She declined; wants to keep her thoughts and conversations to herself. She did let it slip that she's considering whether we should remain married or not. She says it has nothing to do with her A; that she's just fed up with me and thinking of quitting me.

Lord knows I've been imperfect in many ways and a poor husband in a couple of others (never touched another woman though). Plus there are other reasons for her to think this way, e.g. she's under tons of stress, no doubt feeling guilty and looking for some way to project that, plus no doubt lots of other psychological factors I'm not smart enough or trained to understand.

Seems like in order to remain married we need to not only solve the A, but also pretty quickly work on the underlying issues that may have contributed to the affair. But (as if we needed to make it harder) she's acting blase and indifferent to working with me on the underlying problems (many of which I've been the cause of); I think she thinks I can't change, and it's too late to work on the M...

Looks like another sleepless night.

This behaviour by her is exactly by the script. Don't let it quell your efforts.

Affairs are like addictions. She is "under the influence" of an attraction that has consumed her thoughts for some time, and she will not respond to you in her "old self" manner until she has experienced several weeks of NC, and is most of the way through withdrawal.

Until then, pay very little attention to anything she says. She's grasping at straws on how to feel right now, and most of what she says we all define as "babble". She's in a state of complete confusion, and will truly say anything to try to appease her own state of mind.

Now is the time for you to be exclusively in Plan A, doing whatever you can to make deposits in her Love Bank, work on those issues you've identified that YOU need to correct about yourself, and be the sane partner in the marriage.

Remind yourself hourly that this is a long, tedious process, and it will be perhaps weeks before she will turn back towards the marriage. But you have to show her everyday that it is safe for her to do so.

Keep posting and keep believing you can survive this. It's a very confusing process, but you'll make it.

SD

OK thanks for the words Shattered, Beaut, Working and Whistles. Happy to report progress today!

We sat down and rather than trying to work the HNHN or whatever, I just asked - as Shattered suggested - 'What do you think are the biggest walls between us?' That got her talking for 20 minutes. What a relief! Like a soaking rain after a 6-week drought.

She said I haven't listened, I've been paternalistic, I've tried to be the ultimate decision-maker, and a host of other things that need to be addressed. Also that the EA (or PA) wouldn't have happened if she'd felt her needs had been met by me. etc. And we continued from there for another hour, it was really the best relationship-building talk we've had maybe ever!

There's no way to thank you all enough.

I know there is a lot of hard work ahead, and that as we're just starting the NC stage there are lots of ways to go off the track. But it's a good start since we can at least talk about it together. And she recognizes that I'm on her side and will support her now more than ever. I hope this connected feeling stretches out for a long time...I'll certainly do all I can to demonstrate my love.

WeNeed,

What you heard probably has some truth to it, but most of it is still "fog" talk. She is still emotionally in the affair and just starting withdrawal. As others have said, most of what she will say is a lie or a twist on the truth.

The A was NOT your fault, it was her decision and if the marriage was that bad she could have filed for divorce. But, she did not she had an affair, which means she does not and did not want to end the marriage, she just wanted her cake and eat it too.


Right now ending the marriage is sounding better because it is running away from the problems and sounds easier than solving them and facing what she did. Notice she minimized the affair, and said it was your fault that the marriage should end, just "fog" talk.

Get the keylogger and put it on your computer. Go to Radio shack and get the phone recorder, and then quit trying to solve this problem. Until she comes out of withdrawal there is litte you can do constructive and a lot you can do destructive. So plan A, set your boundaries, gather more information, and do NOT act on anything she tells you.

She is rewriting history to minimize her failures and maximize yours thus justifying what is indefensible. ;(

Please remember this. It will be a month or two before you see the woman you married. And I am with several of the other posters don't believe a thing she says about the A, it was probably longer than she says and you think.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JustLearning. Here's how I think the timeline has gone: 11 weeks ago wife flew to another city for a convention. Two days later I flew to join her after end of the convention. There she told me that she had run into him; the first time she'd seen him since our marriage 13 years ago. She was (i) notably distant, (ii) very tired from staying up very late at the convention, and (iii) excited about having reestablished contact with the guy.

He lives in our city, and she could have seen him before our trip - but I think she wouldn't have been so excited about reestablishing contact with him if that were the case. So purely on that basis, I'm reasonably sure that was the genesis of their extramarital relationship. Plus, that's what WW told me as well. Of course I could be wrong, it could have gone on much longer.

At that time she told me he's gay, and with my ok started spending some time with him (say 1x per week for bike riding, but also a couple of times drinks/jazz/dancing); notably she also started acting more and more distant from the kids and myself.

4 weeks after that, she apparently had a guilt attack and admitted he's not gay. She cried to me 'I dont understand why I've done this to you and to our family' but wouldn't say much else. Of course I pressed for details; WW refused to say more about what had happened or to give OM's name or contact details. Bingo, ASAP (within a couple of days) I had her in MC, and our MC called it an affair. She didn't agree, and walked out of the meeting; nevertheless I guess that's my D-day. Kudos to MC for recognizing and naming it.

Now 7 weeks since it D-day. As you see above she's admitted and revealed some info, but I'm not very clear yet as to details.

Anyway that's why I think the EA (or PA) was at most 4 weeks old when revealed. 11 weeks old now.

WW is leaning a lot on her relatives and our friends and neighbors, who have been wonderful. WW told them she has ended contact with OM and wants it to remain that way, the friends offered her all sorts of help and committed to support her withdrawal and NC.

Yes there is very thick fog. I distrust every word she says, I check up on her, I spend as much time with her as possible, etc.

Thanks as always for sharing your thoughts..

I should add that her contact has been while she's at work, so any emails would be on her work machine. I can't think of a way to get access to those.

Similarly she has a company cell phone, and I am unable to see the phone bills. WW erases her cell phone call log periodically; very likely any day she has contact. So I can't see how to make that work either.

She's smart; very slim chance a keylogger or phone recorder at home would help. Although if I should go ahead with this trip, I suppose she might slip up at home..

Really rough night last night, I'm having a tough time of it lately. Stopped by the bedroom, when I opened the door she made a sudden movement as if she were hiding something. That started my imagination/paranoia running wild. Was it a cell phone? WW is calling him from our bed? Maybe a note from OM? Maybe a picture of him and she's masturbating?

That kept me awake until 2AM. Then I woke her and told her my thoughts, she of course said I'm mistaken, she even showed me her cell phone log to prove she hadn't called OM.

I also told her I felt like a prisoner; if I leave the house overnight, then for a long time after I would be paranoid that he had been in my house and my bed. Also that I can't sleep much, and even when I can sleep I've started to have violent dreams involving her and OM.

Although WW says that both she and OM have sent NC letters to each other 1 week ago, I'm having a hard time believing it. For her part WW is tired of being watched and having to have all her time accounted for. She had an idea to prove she's in NC and that the A is ended..

Although WW still wont tell me OM's name or number, she offered to give OM's name/# to a third party - our MC - who would call OM to say 'please do not contact WW further, it's ruining her marriage'. The implicit threat would also scare OM; WW says OM is deathly afraid of being revealed to his wife. OM would presumably reply that it's ended and that they're already in NC. That would help me to believe that they're in NC.

Proves nothing, WW and OM could just prearrange it, but at least it's something. I'm inclined to want to go ahead with her idea.

What do you think? Many thanks as always.

wnh,

IMO your wife is deathly afraid of you calling OMW because the A is still going on. The secret is still in tact.

Supposedly ther have been NC letters sent from both of them to both of them but your W won't (can't) produce either of them.

Tell your wife to give the OM's number to your pastor or one of your parents and relay the message. That would go a little further in my book.

I thinks she's trying to pacify you. Giving you just enough to calm things down.

I don't recall but have you exposed her A to anyone?

God Bless,

Doug

d rose is right on the mark. Trust, but verify. These A addictions are as hard, if not harder to break than cigarettes, alchol or harder drugs.

A WS will lie, deceive, and tell you anything to appease you. You might want to go so far as to hire a PI for a few days, as they have the ways and means to collect the OM's name, address, cell phone #, and to visually track your W when she's "on the go". Simply said, they cannot be trusted.

Don't sell yourself short, and buy in to anything she tells you right now. Check your credit card receipts and do some snooping in what might be some secret hiding places in your home. People in A's often cannot throw cards, notes, gifts away, and keep them for you to find, if you are clever enough. Have you looked in the trunk of her car? Glove box? Gym bag? Briefcase? Counted contraceptive devices? If your gut tells you something is amiss, then it probably is.

Trust, but verify. A "real" NC letter is to be written by both of you, and you personally drop it in the mail, fully aware of the contents. It is critically important that you find out who the OM is, and you expose this A to his W. That is your STRONGEST weapon in stopping the A.

Don't threaten or forewarn your W in ANY way that this will take place.... just do it! Read more of the threads here on exposure and you'll see that it works most of the time.

Keep the faith, stay patient, as this is a marathon, not a sprint, and steadily work through this program, and you'll get a chance to work on your marriage.

Best wishes,
SD

weneedhelp...

How ya doin'?

SD

Thanks for asking SD. Pretty well given the situation. We're getting along together, and MC is going well.

I slipped a couple of nights ago and let her know I'm in a bad state. Big no-no I'll try not to do it again. But the result seems to have been good, WW felt some guilt and apologized for getting us to this point, and said she would work to put it right.

WWs good neighbor friend is going on vacation, leaving WW with much less support group for a few days. I know I'll have to redouble my efforts.

We're keeping busy with the normal family things. Slack time is bad time.

Still no progress in uncovering who is OM. I haven't bothered with the suggested recorders etc since she's always communicated with OM from her worksite.

Anyway things seem okay. I'm sure this is an ebb and flow kind of thing, so I'm trying to push the flow along and hoping the backward steps arent too large.

Thanks again!

You are welcome...

Something to keep in mind. If this was a workplace A, and they still work together, or even see each other at work, it will be MOST difficult for her to Withdraw and re-engage with you...beyond words.

I know it doesn't seem like the "gentlemanly" thing to do, but finding out the name of the OM and other details will put you in the catbird's seat. I suggest you covertly seek out this information, for your own good.

I wish you well,
SD

It's not a workplace A; thankfully OM is at a different firm, and they don't see each other professionally. Well maybe once a year at that danged convention where they hooked up in the first place..

Does anyone have ideas for how to uncover who this rascal is? I know his first name and industry, and his general job description, and his city. I've tried randomly calling a few firms and asking for a guy with his 1st name and job description, but no luck.

I don't see how I can get access to WW's work computer (to check emails) or cell phone records. Any other ideas? Many thanks.

Has she EVER called him from the house? You haven't been able to access her cell phone records...how about her cell phone itself? Check the call history, phone book, etc...

What about (this is going to sound horrible) checking her purse and pockets, her planner, organizer, personal phone book, etc...?

Does she have any friends that you feel might be sympathetic to you and be able to provide or get the information?