Hi,

I'm posting for the first time but have been reading for a few days. I found out about A on 07/01 and confronted. WW agreed to end it immediately, I also talked to lover and he also agreed. I found out on 07/21 that they were still in contact daily... but the reason I found out was seeing a copy of an email from the lover saying it should end for WW to work on her marriage. I also called lover the next day and asked if he was telling the truth this time. He called my W right after to see if she was ok. My wife was honest and told me about this call. She says there has not been any since. We went camping as a family the next day for 3 nights. Overall it went fine... I was selfish and proud a couple of times and reacted poorly... but each time ended well. We are in counselling and I have a lot of hope. My questions...
W is now in depression. She has a history of this from when her parents D when she was 11 or 12. She never got help. Now she is going into it again. She is going to see the doctor to get some meds, but what else should I be doing. She's mentioned that she doesn't feel she can keep going on and finds it hard in the mornings. Indirectly, she has hinted at suicide. I realize this is a normal feeling during withdrawal, but should I be more concerned? I don't believe she is serious about hurting herself, but I don't want to be wrong on this one.

Second question. I was thinking of driving on a trip to visit family in about 3 weeks with my 2 sons. W can't come as she has no more holidays at work... wouldn't come anyway, afraid to face questions from my family. They know of marital problems but not of the A. Is this a mistake to leave for a week with the kids. She said I don't have to worry about her making contact if I do go. I don't want to go and leave her alone, especially if we are making positive headway, but I also know a big part of our problems was due to my fear... of losing her. I was jealous, easily hurt or rejected, smothering. I need to know that my fear is gone if I want to move forward with or without her. I'm thinking that taking the risk to go may help me in conquering the fear. Would it be a mistake to go so soon after? Am I deluding myself about this trip conquering the fear?

Last question: Both my W and I were participating in our church worship team... she sings, I play piano. We had just started back getting involved within the last year. Music is a passion of both of us and is a Recreational activity we can do together. The lover was another singer in the group. We have since stopped attending the church, but will this have to be a permanent decision. All our friends and many relatives attend that church. My W has gone there her whole life and me for over 20 years. Is it possible for the marriage to survive with contact with the lover after recovery? Lover's spouse (also sings in the group and so does his daughter participate) does not yet know about A. It has not been exposed yet.

Any advice?

Shaden

Welcome to MB. Have you exposed to OMW? If not you need to do so, she has the right to know. I don't know about the trip, not sure I would leave so soon after dday. You should also expose the A to someone in leadership of your church. Your W and OM should not play a role in leadership while actively participating in an A.

OM has said he will talk to his W. Her parents were visiting this month... he wanted to wait until they were gone. I didn't expose to protect my W. I will if I find out there is more contact. My W has stopped participating, and without us, the worship team is not currently happening, so OM has stopped temporarily.
I'll have to decide on exposing to church leadership. A new pastor is there who I have not built any trust with... and I promised my W to not tell anyone except counsellor, if she was ending the affair. Her Mom and sister knows, but that's all.

Do NOT go...it's too soon and she is in deep withdrawal. Without you there, it would be too easy for her to give in to her desire to contact him. You should stay close enough to enforce accountability, but not so close that you smother her.



As long as the OM attend there, yes, it will have to be permanent. NO CONTACT is a lifelong commitment. Sorry, dude, this is a big reason why affairs really suck.

Low

You can't trust OM to tell his W. Are you certain there is no more contact? Your WW depression could very well be partly due to withdrawl. Have you read Surviving An Affair? Torn Assunder? Have your read through the entire site about the basic concepts not just the message board? click here for WATs guide for betrayed spouses

Please tell the OMW, he will most likely not tell her. If you want this over, tell her. Besides, if it were you, wouldn't you want to know.

Telling the OM's wife may cure more than one problem.

It result in 2 independant pairs of eyes looking for continued contact.

It will put a great deal of pressure on the OM to deal w/a very anguished betrayed wife, giving him less time to think of your W.

OM's W may insist that OM leave the church you are "at home" with, so there will be no future contact, allowing you to remain in your church.

What better way to all your new pastor to "serve" his church, than to counsel a "member in need"?

His W deserves to know.

JMHO
SD

I believe you're right about the trip. My kids will be disappointed, they wanted to go to Wonderland in Toronto... but we were just in Disneyland in May (I found out the A started just before that trip... so the family vacation is now a bad memory to me)

I have read and re-read every article on the board. I'm doing all I can to make LD and eliminate LB. My W read the first 3 parts of the infidelity articles while we were camping... I had printed them off. We haven't discussed it, but I think it has had some affect. She is also very upset with herself for lying to her twin sister (they are very close) and to her Mom (who lives with us in a suite in the basement). Other than her depression and confused/distant emotions, things are going fairly well. Time spent on bike rides, talking, going to the gym, hugging... etc. It's far from over and "safe", but I believe that Plan A is slowly working. Atleast I have some hope. My bigger concern is as each day goes by, I feel a little less afraid, but the images and hurt and questions seem stronger. I was not even angry... very hurt and upset... but I didn't feel anger when I first found out... too many years of suppressing anger, I guess, out of fear.

I promised not to expose before I found this website, and to build our marriage, I feel I have to live up to it as long as their contact is now ended. If I find out differently, then I will expose as my next step. I'll wait and see if OM tells his W and will decide if I have to step in later.

I'll think some more on the advice of exposing... I know it is the right thing to do, but so is keeping my promise...

Whoa, gotta speak here.

Keeping your promise ?? Didn't your wife promise to foresake all others ??? You know, marriage vows !! Please expose to OMW and do NOT leave town. Keep posting and keep watching.

God Bless you.

Carnation

Just because she breaks a promise doesn't mean that I have to... but I know I also have to go with the "greater good". Wouldn't breaking that promise be a huge LB when things seem to be going fairly well. I haven't been "snooping" the last few days, but maybe I should check a bit and make sure.

I also read another situation... a book called "Marriage under Cover", where the advice was given to protect his WW and rebuild...not to tell anyone until she was ready. The difference, though, was the WW confessed the A to him after it was over and the OM had already moved away.

Shaden

How big is the "Marriage under Cover" forum, and how many people are participating in ACTIVELY saving their marriages as a result? (said tongue in cheek)

Read Surviving an Affair, if you haven't yet. This MB philosophy is Christian based, time tested, and works.

If it were my money, I'd buy in here! Not only do you have a successful philosophy, you have 10,000 allies on the forums who have "been there, done that". People who can help you with nearly anything; people who care.

When do you suppose the WW will be READY to tell anyone of her A?

I've read hundreds of threads from people who did not properly expose the A, who are STILL trying to figure out a way to get their wayward spouse out of making contact with the OP.

Give some serious thought to protecting your WW, and perhaps prolonging the A as a result.

Others may come along with better advice...

Best wishes,
SD

Shaden, the only thing worse than making a bad promise is KEEPING a bad promise. This is a very bad promise that only harms, not helps your marriage. You should have never made it. I can't even fathom why you would "promise" to help them hide their dirty secret from their victim. Telling the OMW helps ensure this affair never resumes because the OM will no longer be free to pursue your W.

As long as you help them keep their secret for them, the affair can resume. With the secrecy removed, it is less likely to resume.

Secondly, you have a moral obligation to warn this woman about her H so she can take steps to protect herself and her children from him and your W. There is absolutely NO downside to telling her, there is only upside, for ALL concerned!

How would it be a "greater good" to honor a terrible promise that jeopardizes your marriage and prevents her victim from being warned? Because your marriage does not benefit, your W does not benefit, the OMW does not benefit. They are all harmed by this very inappropriate promise.

The ONLY thing that benefits from this promise is the AFFAIR. Do you realize that? Your promise only greatly increases the risk that it resumes because you helped keep it hidden.

Ok, I've heard the advice and then I might have made a mistake after. Last night, when I was reading post, my W came in and asked if she could go to the store. She read the mis-trust on my face and thought I was angry. She took one of my sons with her to make me feel better.
After, (here's the probable mistake), I talked to her about exposure. She was angry at first, but released me from my promise. She said "I might as well lie down here and wait for everyone to beat me up". I'm not sure if this was a mindgame to make me feel guilty, but she has experienced and seen the pain and unforgiveness that her Mom went through for years after from the "Christians" at the church after she had an A. It didn't matter that her Dad had atleast 3 A before her Mom.
I know that we all make our choices and have to face the consequenses... and that's what my W needs to do. She is angry at herself for allowing history to repeat itself, but I think the history from her Mom (who had a more fulfilling second marriage with her A partner than with her first marriage) helped her to justify it to herself.

The last thing my W said was that she should probably speak to the OMW herself. I said that might be a good idea, but she wasn't going to do it without me by her side. It may help the OMW's attitude if she sees me willing to reconcile.

I haven't exposed yet... will decide on a time within the next 48 hours.

The rest of the evening went well with us. My concern is if my WW is emailing or calling the OM today to warn him, thinking she is just trying to do the right thing... although, if it pushes him to tell his W himself, that's a good thing, but it will mean contact has happened again.

Anyone with experience... have I really messed up, or can this be turned into a positive thing?

Make sure you are there with her...don't let her do it alone. United front...my H and I called OMW together...then OMW wife knew it wasn't because I wanted her H, but it was to let her know, and to help get Om to stop contacting me!

Well, I sort of doubt the OMW will want to see your W, shaden. It would be much better coming from a person who did not victimize her. Please try and be a little sensitive and just go alone. It will be emotionally traumatic enough without your W there. [unless you just enjoy cat fights]

And if the OM does tell his W, count on most of it being a lie. If he does tell her, it will be a very sanitized version and she will never get the full story. This is why it needs to come someone with a little crediblity, namely you.

Unfortunately, forewarning the affairees is not usually a good idea. It give them a chance to get together and cook up their story and put a nice spin on it before you get to the OMW. Hopefully, the OMW will even believe you when you call her.

I wouldn't drag this out and make a major production about it. I would suggest just calling the woman today and telling her the truth before your W and the OM have too much time to cook up a new line of defense.

Shaden,

There very BEST way to do this is with your W there as well. Or she could do it by letter, which YOU mail. However that can be intercepted.

Talk with your W about this a bit more. I think she would agree she would want to know if YOU were having an affair. I also think you two need to discuss this in some depth because right now she feels this is ALL ABOUT HER and that telling OM's W is punishment for HER. It is not about punishment really it is about doing what is right for the OM's W who is after all your W's friend as well.

So talk to her, and see if this can become a team effort. The goal is for her to understand YOU are not punishing your W. You are trying to do the right thing for OM's W. And your W could go a long way by trying to do the same thing.

So keep talking to her about this and see if she will agree and then SUPPORT your W afterwards because this is going to be very difficult.

As for the trip, given what you have said about your W's state of mind, I would not take that trip. Although you MIL lives with you, the fact remains that suicide has crossed your W's mind. That is not so unusual, but as you said one must be careful with these things.

Keep talking to her but remind her this is not about HER, it is about OM's W.

God Bless,

JL

I'd like to point out that there is a huge difference between exposure to the OMW and exposure in general.

The idea of exposure is to start small then widen the circle ONLY AS NEEDED and ONLY if no contact is not maintained. Exposure is letting people know that you want to save your marriage despite the affair and you're hoping for your family's/friend's help, either directly or indirectly.

If your wife has promised to end the affair and maintain no contact, and you can verify that this is happening, I do not see any need to expose to anyone other than his wife. Exposing after the affair is over and no contact is maintained--can do much more harm than good, IMO.

Exposing to the OMW is a whole different story altogether. SHE NEEDS TO KNOW. She needs to know that her husband risked her life and their children's lives. She needs to know that her marriage is currently a lie and that she does not know her husband. She is an adult and it is up to her to decide whether or not to stay with this man. I feel that you have an *obligation* to tell her. Sadly you did not ask for this obligation, but it is yours, nonetheless.

I'm glad to see you discussed this with your wife and that she has grudgingly agreed to tell the OMW, with you there. I can see how you feel about your marriage and your wife. There are consequences to be faced, and you can support her while she does the right thing. Be her rock!

When you tell the OMW, please arm her with some coping strategies. Don't preach or anything, but let her know there are places like MB available to her.

Update... I haven't posted in a while.

I want to say thanks to the members who offered me advice, but I must say that I ignored most of it... and so far it seems to be working ok.

I have not exposed to anyone else. I decided that as long as they were not in contact, that I needed to concentrate on building my own trust, becoming independent of my WW (I've learned that I have some passive co-dependent tendencies), and being able to love unconditionally. This means that I want my wife to love me for who I am, not because I have manipulated the situation to bring a result in my favour. If I lost her doing what I felt to be the right thing, then I could live with that.

My gift to her for our Anniversary last week was to give her my trust. She knows that this is hard as I still have feelings of anxiety, but I felt that I needed to allow her the space to go or do things without feeling like she is in prison. If she chooses to tell me because she wants to, then that is all that is necessary. A huge risk... you bet... but one I felt I needed to make.

Things have been steadily and quickly improving. A lot of affection, time together, and some conversation. I am starting to take risks and tell her when I'm angry or upset about something. I was always bottling up my anger and just doing things for her. Our MC told me it was the good guy/bad guy issue. I was doing way too much for her and not showing enough emotion... no intimacy.

I do believe there has not been any further contact even though she has admitted it has been hard some times... but she says each day is getting easier. The only contact was the OM phoning me the other day. He heard that we were leaving the Worship Team at our Church that we were involved in with him. He wanted to say that he would step down so we could continue. I told him that it was more than that... that we were leaving the church as well. He asked if there is anything he could do to change that. He sounded truly sorry... either that or he's afraid he won't see my W again. I warned him that I couldn't guarantee if we continued going to the same church that I wouldn't give him at least a punch in the face... to which he admitted that he deserved.
He hasn't told his W yet and may not. I said that it is his place tell her now. If he doesn't, he'll have to live with the guilt. If there is contact with my W again, then I'll tell her myself. He said that his marriage would probably end if he told her... I said you don't know that... I would have probably said the same thing in the past until it happened to me. I want to stay with my W... and his W might want to stay with him as well. But, the longer he takes to tell her, the harder it will be for her to ever trust him again.

My W and I spent 3 weekends camping with our family and had a good time... avoiding LBs on both sides.

I was warned not to go away on my own, but I am leaving tomorrow morning with my 2 sons for a 9 day trip to Toronto. My W has to work, but will spend a couple of days alone at a small resort to think, pray and decide her future. She was hurt when her Mom asked her last night if she was going there alone. The OM is away with his family, but if he wasn't, I believe my W when she says that I don't need to worry.... it is over. I told my W after what her Mom said, that I know her well enough to believe that now the A is no longer a secret from me, that she has enough sensitivity and integrity to now tell me if she wants to be with him... not to continue anything behind my back. This was a huge LD as she really appreciated the trust and belief. The MC thought my trip was the best thing for us... to show that I could go amidst my fears and to conquer my dependency. It also gives my W time to feel and think. The MC said that my W had become numb with her feelings long before the A and she needed time to start to feel again. This has already started with our time camping.

I know many of you think that I'm probably very naive... but each situation is different. My W still loves me, I just hope that she will decide to fully commit for when I return from my trip. I have a lot of work to do on myself... I believe I'm addicted to her and this has smothered her and given a huge responsibility on her shoulders. My happiness has been conditional upon her returning the good deeds I was doing... this is not unconditional love. Now that I'm aware of it, I can change it and bring God as centre of my life. The pain of the A is still fresh... but each week it is getting better. We still have a long way to go, and probably some set backs along the way as we both learn to trust each other with the truth rather than bottling it up to "protect" each other from hurt.

Thanks again to all of you. I enjoy reading the posts and learning from all of you... that I'm not alone in this. It is great to hear some of the success stories, and I am praying for those, like myself, still struggling to recover.