[color:"blue"]I just wanted a feel for if this was my expectation being too high or if this is something that most of you would find unacceptable. I tend to let people get away with murder when it comes to boundaries, in addition to saying things rather bluntly when I finally do get it out...

BF came over last night because I had the children and no sitter on what usually is our date night. Occasionally we use the evening to go somewhere, but generally we use the evening to spend some uninterrupted time together. A quiet meal, maybe a swim, or surf the net, or watch tv, and some intimate time.

I was very upset when I would hire a babysitter for this evening and he would want to cuddle on the couch - and would ALWAYS fall asleep. Yes I do mean always. Once supine it is inevitable for him. I told him that I did not want to go to the expense of hiring a babysitter in order to watch him sleep. His excuse was/is that he is just so relaxed around me.

Last night I got the children to bed and came down to find him lying on my couch, leaving room for me to spoon. I probably should have just told him that he should go home and get rest or that I was disappointed that he would lay down knowing he would fall asleep, but instead I just decided to cuddle. Two hours later, I woke him up and told him that I was going to bed. While we were outside saying goodnight I told him that I was bored watching him sleep and that he should have stayed home and rested rather than come over knowing he was so tired. He denied wanting to fall asleep, but admitted finally that yes he did always fall asleep when he layed down and I told him that if he were honest with himself he would admit to wanting to nap and that is why he layed down.

I felt bad that he runs himself ragged and that he has difficulty sleeping. I feel strongly that he shouldn't push himself so hard with too many obligations that he takes on that he doesn't have to take on. I am upset that he doesn't take the time to make sure that he eats right, and doesn't get enough sleep. I am tired of getting him when he is exhausted or sick.

How many of you would go over your girlfriend of 1 year's house on the 1 night a week that you get to spend time together, and then go to sleep on her couch.

Besides not using an opportunity to fill ENs, isn't it also just plain rude or self centered?

Looking forward to reading your responses.

In defense of him I have to say that he frequently has interrupted sleep. (personally I take a sleep aid but he doesn't)

V. [/color]

I generally fell asleep after sex.

[color:"blue"]Well it wasn't like that was the problem. He gets too tired/sick for much of that. At least if that were the case Tibolt, you would have spent some time fulfilling one emotional need... [/color]

Im thinking that 1. Id never fall asleep on my GF if we only saw each other once a week - Id stay awake and occupied with her as much as possible for as long as possible.
However, in his defence....perhaps he is so comfortable with you that your place has become his 'comfort zone', thus allowing him to relax in ways that he usually isnt able to do, whether at home or wherever. If this is the case - you should probably see it as a positive thing for your LTR, but still get him to realise that he is neglecting you. You obviously make him feel safe and well.

If it happened once or twice that would be one thing but a continual cycle is quite another. I, myself, wouldn't dream of doing that. I would say that I have 6 nights to sleep and only one to be with my baby.

That being said, where does your power reside. If you knew what was going to happen then you should have taken the initiative to change the course. You're obviously building up tiny resentments over this, left alone this issue will only get worse. So what can you do to have an impact on it?

On nights you have the kiddo's you could get out a game or something. On 'date' nights, you could take charge and plan the dates.

That all being said, after dating this guy for a year is that your only complaint? Or are there more? If romance is a high EN, then how can you express that to him so he'll meet that?

Yes, it would bother me. I wouldn't put up with it if it were chronic and she didn't do anything to correct it.

Well the big thing that jumps out at me is that you're still enabling behavior that is inconsiderate to you.

Quit it already.

If hanging out with him while he sleeps is not your idea of a fun date, then STOP DOING IT. Wake him up and tell him you'll see him when he has the energy for it.

Something to think about... I've found it can save a lot of headaches, misunderstandings, and resentments all around to decline indefinite plans and only accept specific plans for dates. For example, that would mean not accepting an invitation (or making one) to "spend the evening together". Each person will have their own ideas about what that does and does not mean, and resentments easily build when those views don't match up. I'd go for something more specific -- it sounds like for your evening, that might be, "have dinner and watch a movie".

The thing is, it's important in that approach to have boundaries if one person tries unilaterally to redefine the plans. Deciding together to change the plans in the moment in a way you are both happy with is great, but one person changing the plans without asking isn't. So if the plan is to "have dinner and watch a movie" and he lays down (both of you knowing he'll go to sleep), he's unilaterally redefining the plans without asking you. At that point it's boundary time. One reasonable boundary is that the date is over -- dates only last so long as they're jointly agreed upon and mutually enjoyable.

"Yes I do mean always. Once supine it is inevitable for him."

and

"I felt bad that he runs himself ragged and that he has difficulty sleeping."

Which is it? These are contradictory statements. In regard to the first statemnet, the solution is simple: don't lay down.

"His excuse was/is that he is just so relaxed around me."

You know this isn't true.

"In defense of him I have to say that he frequently has interrupted sleep."

OK and you've let him know that this is having a negative impact on your relationship. So what, if anything, is he doing about the problem. If nothing, why?

"I feel strongly that he shouldn't push himself so hard with too many obligations that he takes on that he doesn't have to take on."

My ex was like this. My opinion is that people who do this are running from something. They don't make very good mates, since they are spending so much of their time an energy on things that are not required, that they have little left over for their mates. Changing these people is very hard.

"Besides not using an opportunity to fill ENs, isn't it also just plain rude or self centered?"

Yes, it most certainly is.

"I tend to let people get away with murder when it comes to boundaries"

Why do you do this?

"How many of you would go over your girlfriend of 1 year's house on the 1 night a week that you get to spend time together, and then go to sleep on her couch."

I know I wouldn't.

I 'm not quite sure what your BF wants from this relationship, but it doesn't seem to be spending quality time with you.

[color:"blue"]It bothers me and I let him know before that it bothers me so this is the second time I have told him not to waste my time. (not in those words but in the general meaning)

Thank you for the support and validation.

V.[/color]

[color:"blue"]That's the way I feel about it - heck I even ensure that I get sleep the night before so that I look and feel great.[/color]


[color:"blue"]It only seems a positive thing until you spend many hours being bored. Plus I have one night a week is that too much to ask that he remain awake?[/color]


[color:"blue"]I think I have been feeling neglected for 3/4 of the year I've been with him. The first 3 months of attention filled the love bank and it's been small withdrawals ever since.

And it is very suspicious the way that he'll put a lot of effort out when I complain, but then will just drift back into "his ways".

V.[/color]

Lying on the sofa with a man I love spooning sounds like heaven to me right now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> but I understands that's not the problem you're having.

To put it simply, he's not making an effort to be with you in a meaningful way. Is he lazy, does he think he doesn't need to make any effort on your behalf because you're already a couple? Might want to let him know what your expectaions are for a relationship with a man especially if those expectations include less time sleeping & more time being active together.

[color:"blue"]I think he sees it as he has only six nights a week to get all his overbooked stuff done so that he can finally relax with his baby. He has done it many many times and each time he says the same thing "oh I'm sorry baby, I'm just so tired and when you are here I just feel so relaxed.[/color]


[color:"blue"]That is where I have difficulty - I feel sorry for him that he is so tired and one part of me does not want to disturb him because I can see that he is tired. [/color]


[color:"blue"]I told him how I felt (again). I resolve to kick him out on his frikkin ear if he tries it again, or to just up and leave his place if he does it there (again). [/color]


[color:"blue"]Well a lot of times it is our only opportunity for SF, so going out will eat up a lot of the time we have to take care of that. Additionally if he eats too much he gets tummy aches and SF is out. So I have been "trained" to think in terms of what can we eat or where can go to eat for something light and quick, or let's spend some time together somewhere where it is easy to transition to private time. A board game sounds interesting. [/color]


[color:"blue"]I think that he does a good job of fulfilling my ENs when we do spend time together. My biggest complaint has been the lack of time together and the way that he seems to think time together is not high priority.
I'm wondering if he is just clueless or if the cluelessness is going hand in hand with selfish. I had a previous thread on kissing and how he didn't put any effort into kissing or even turned his head to break a kiss. He's not much for foreplay unless it is for him...

V.[/color]

[color:"blue"]It is nice - and it is better than nothing. But eventually nothing starts to look attractive if resentment is building. [/color]


[color:"blue"]He is not lazy in other areas of his life - he is an overachiever there. It is just with the relationship. I'm thinking narcissist??? Or yeah, he assumes that because we are a couple he is "set". [/color]



[color:"blue"]Maybe you guys can help me come up with a "punch list". (Things that need to get done by the builder before I'll accept the house as finished!)

V. [/color]

Well y'all ain't hitched yet, so let me give you some advise outside the MB realm. Throw SF out the window for a month and see if that gets him to start chasing you again. Sounds like you cater and enable him pretty well, so now take a stand for you.....

[color:"blue"]He wakes up at night and can't go back to sleep. He has a better night's sleep when I am with him. He used to take a nap every evening to recharge, and sometimes still does. I have told him that sleep experts say naps are bad. Because he sleeps poorly at night and sleeps better with me I feel guilty not letting him sleep if he is so exhausted. But it is not fair to me if he thinks I am just his snuggle bunny and not worth his full attention.[/color]


[color:"blue"] [/color]



[color:"blue"]I suggest he take a sleep aid - he says he has really bad reactions to a lot of meds. [/color]



[color:"blue"]What do you think is the truth? I don't know. [/color]


[color:"blue"]Yes this is exactly how I feel - that so much of his time and energy is spent elsewhere. I didn't think changing someone is likely - do you mean telling them what you will not tolerate and seeing if they will change it? [/color]



[color:"blue"]That's what I thought - but then I think I am not being compassionate when I think of telling him to hit the road if he is going to nap. [/color]



[color:"blue"]Because I grew up in an abusive dysfunctional home and I have no clue what "normal" is. [/color]


[color:"blue"]Unless he has a different interpretation of what quality time is. To someone that doesn't sleep at night, wouldn't it seem attractive to go over your gf's house where you know that you can lay down and rest because she relaxes you so much?!! Still all about him. Maybe he thought I would be grateful to snuggle with him.

V.[/color]

Simply telling them doesn't work -- it only works if you consistently follow it up with concrete action. That means that if they persist in the unacceptable behavior, you take away their opportunities to engage in that behavior around you.

Otherwise if you just repeat a lot "this is unacceptable", but go on accepting it when they do it (by not taking away their opportunities to do it around you), you change your actual message from "this is unacceptable" to "this is acceptable but I just like to complain about it a lot".

[color:"blue"]I think this is a good idea Bill. I told him recently after spending a week at his house with no kids and he had activities almost every night and even 2 occasions he did his own thing and left me at his house that I was really feeling neglected. This sort of opportunity only happens once a year or so and he let other plans be first in line.

When I complain he asks me if I would rather we just stay at home and do nothing every weekend and never have people over, etc. I am really starting to see a pattern of black and white thinking when it comes to certain issues. One issue being his social calendar, and the other issue being his main hobby. Both eat up his time and both he vigorously defends. Additionally he told me that he would not take on any more 2nd job work. Well I think that he will continue one project and take on another. He thinks it doesn't count because one is an extension of a job he already working on and the other is only a "one evening" job. Folks - he doesn't need the money. He uses it to buy toys not necessities.

V. [/color]

[color:"blue"]MOS - I saved you for last as I wanted to think about my replies a little more in depth. [/color]


[color:"blue"]I totally agree. I think that he has gone too far by accepting new work after saying he would not. It indicates to me that he will also continue with his hobby at full speed even though he said he will not. I was reluctant to use this issue, because I really hate drawing a line when it comes to someone's livelihood - you have to make a living. But I realize now that he takes on more work than he needs to do to earn a living. And the money doesn't get spent on stuff that makes up for all the lost evenings and weekends - it gets spent on stuff that benefits him - such as a new toy or electronic gadget.

V. [/color]

"I suggest he take a sleep aid - he says he has really bad reactions to a lot of meds."

Two things here. The most important for you is that you are making excuses for him - or buying his dodges. This isn't an answer to my question beyond he's not doing really anything. The important thing for him is that this sort of sleep disturbance is a cardinal sign of depression, as is overextening yourself. Is this what he's running from?

For people who have mid-cycle/early waking insomnia, one of the first things they are advised to do is cut out naps. But you guy naps in the evening. Then he complains about not being able to sleep through the night. Well, duh! Sounds to me like he's getting plenty of sleep.

"Because I grew up in an abusive dysfunctional home and I have no clue what "normal" is."

Now you're making excuses for yourself. Your childhood was then and this is now. You don't get to blame your childhood for anything in your life after age 25. (an old saying). You can learn what normal is for you. You probably already know.

"Unless he has a different interpretation of what quality time is. To someone that doesn't sleep at night, wouldn't it seem attractive to go over your gf's house where you know that you can lay down and rest because she relaxes you so much?!! Still all about him. Maybe he thought I would be grateful to snuggle with him."

Again, you're making excuses for him. Stop doing that. Why even have boundries if they are so easily discarded? No one in their right mind is going to define quality time as spending the one evening a week you have with your SO sleeping on her sofa. LOL Grafeful to snuggle with him? What is his ego the size of Texas or something? Snuggling's great if there's pillow talk and it's being used to dirt off into sleep together. But it really isn't active engagement.

Hey sunny,

There's an important point to keep in mind on this time and attention issue:

Being firm that he needs to give you plenty of time and attention is good. Deciding for him how he should prioritize his time or pointing out where you think he should cut things is not likely to have any outcome but bad.

Fundamentally, it's a hidden DJ. He's perfectly capable of prioritizing his time on his own. Don't get drawn into trying to do it for him. I realize that pattern probably came about pretty naturally; he started offering up "reasons" why he's not giving your relationship reasonable time and attention. Then you start trying to find ways to deal with the "reasons". He resists any poking at his pet activities and before you know it, the finger is pointed at you for "attacking" them. The whole mess keeps going downhill.

So leave his time and energy management up to him. It's much more respectful both ways. Just keep communicating that this isn't enough for you -- and communicate that in actions as well as words.

A note to remember: He's had good success so far with his excuses. So far bringing them up has worked very well for him -- they get you to stay around and put up with this situation without him having to change anything. So he's likely to bring them up a lot if you start disengaging from discussing them and merely communicating your boundaries. The thing to remember is not to get drawn into any discussion of his excuses -- just say lovingly, "I know you'll work it out somehow."