[color:"blue"]I understand about buying dodges - I get a little wobbly when it comes to pointing out that it is a dodge (which I have done) and insisting that I won't accept the dodge (which I do more often) The other evening I did tell him that he was not being honest with himself if he thought that he didn't know laying down would put him to sleep. He did suffer from depression before - he chalked it up as seasonal depression, and the lack of activities associated with winter and people staying home because of the weather. I've never heard before that depression is associated with overbooking activities - very interesting. I think he is running from his own fear of aging as well as fear of being alone.[/color]



[color:"blue"]Maybe it is true for some but I think that the "old saying" doesn't take into account the degree of abuse. Nor does it account for someone like me who went on to marry emotionally abusive men. I was depressed and anti-social until maybe 6 years ago, when I took charge of my life again and started wanting to figure out what was wrong with me. It never occurred to me that so many emotional responses that were hardwired into me from childhood were things that other people never experienced. [/color]



[color:"blue"]Ego the size of Texas - maybe. That is what I'm trying to figure out. I wanted to see if other people thought like I did that it was unacceptable for a guy to come over and just crap out on your couch. There are many media images that come to mind of the husband in his lazyboy - seemingly a mainstream thing. My problem with the scenario was the he is not my husband and he seemingly values my time very little.[/color]



[color:"blue"]I am trying. You understand, don't you, that if I point something out and he vigorously defends it with plausible excuses, that it is often confusing to decide what is an excuse and what is me being critical of a "normal" sort of thing? You were right with your "normal for me" statement. Who cares if it is normal or not - a decision should be based on whether I consider it a love buster or not.

V.[/color]

[color:"blue"]Oh I realize this - I don't want to mess with his livilihood. It is probably a DJ on my part to assume that this additional income is "gravy".[/color]


[color:"blue"]I think fundamentally it is the issue that he brings into every relationship. His last GF told him that his priorities were messed up and that he didn't listen. [/color]


[color:"blue"]Are you kidding? He'll solicit an opinion then do whatever he wants anyway. Big red flag, eh?[/color]


[color:"blue"]Yup.[/color]


[color:"blue"]OK, so far I have left his house when the alone time he promised didn't happen.
Left his house when the party went on too late and I couldn't go to sleep with the music playing.
Left his house after waking him from one of his "naps" and letting him know I was bored.

I have also stayed for nothing when he enticed me to stay for something so he got away with it. Stayed while he slept or left to do other things without me so he got away with it. (His house is 30 minutes from mine, making it hard to leave and come back if there are other activities planned.) I have the feeling you will tell me to cancel those later activities if his actions leave me stranded while he does his little errands or other social events.

I think you are right though MOS, I need to work on not putting myself into that situation. It is hard, though, because often it involves predicting the future based on past behavior. Isn't that also a DJ not to take someone at their word? When does it become an assumption that moving lips means lies are being spoken? Or if not lies, then justifications and discounting behavior? I guess as soon as you notice a pattern.[/color]


[color:"blue"]Isn't that funny that you said that. I have started to disengage. For me it indicates that the relationship is on it's way out.

I like your comment about, "I know you'll work it out somehow." Great stuff.

V.[/color]

Is it a DJ not to take someone at their word when their words and actions don't match up? No.

It would be a DJ if you assign a specific meaning to the words that aren't there. For example if he says, "I promise to do X", and you decide it's just plain a lie with not even the slightest chance of it being the truth just this once, that's a DJ. However, deciding that you just don't know what it means because of all the mixed messages is not a DJ -- his mixed messages are his problem, not yours.

It has to do with separating responsibility and owning what's yours and not taking on even a little ownership for anything that is not yours.

If you jump to unwarranted conclusions, that is your issue, and you need to fix it. Unwarranted conclusions include any form of deciding there's something in a message that isn't there, negative *or* positive. Taking him at his word when he's been giving a mixed message is just as unwarranted a conclusion as deciding there's no possibility whatsoever that he's telling the truth this time.

If he muddles up his message with contradictory words and actions, that's his issue to sort out or not as he chooses. The critical thing is to respect him enough to leave ownership of it to him. Don't try to sort out what he means. Just clearly state that 1. You're confused because his words and actions don't match, and 2. You don't like being around someone whose words and actions don't match and if it continues you're going to need to separate yourself from being around that behavior.

Oh, and Dr. Harley has a specific piece of advice for dealing with someone who makes deals but doesn't keep their end -- don't perform your end of a deal until after they've done theirs. Period.

I think you and this guy have had a lot of "unspoken" deals -- he makes some promises, and your part of the "deal" is you go on as though everything's fine. Then he doesn't keep his promise and you're not sure what to do.

The thing to do in that case is don't keep your end of the deal until after he's kept his. Don't listen to a promise and right away start acting as though things are ok -- as though the promise has already been performed. Just tell him that you'll be watching for when it happens (the keeping of the promise).

Hmmmmmm.....BTDT. My STBX has this "habit," too. Except he would literally nod off sitting up in a chair- in the middle of a conversation!! He doesn't have sleep issues, he just would not engage. After believing it was my fault somehow for not being valuable enough to talk with or share time with, I was able to see it for what it was.

The little resentments built up over many years and then starting showing up in other areas of "no engagement." CA? I finally realized I should be alarmed as this was not just a matter of relaxation or comfort- but, an inability to focus outside of himself.

keep smilin

[color:"blue"]I missed that one - do you remember which book it was in? There is no deal here. I wish there were. It's more like I feel neglected because while we talk on the phone daily, I see him only 1 or 2 times a week. I guess I could say that I don't see him enough to be enthusiastic about SF and see if he rearranges his schedule enough to give me enough attention to become enthusiastic.[/color]


[color:"blue"]OK - yes there is now a situation where he took on additional work after saying to me that he needs to just cut back on additional work and slow down. He put it in terms of something that he should do for himself. He is unable or unwilling to say no, however. [/color]


[color:"blue"]My current limbo condition is a result of this situation. He said that "it was a huge hassle and it was becoming too much work for very little gain" to run his hobby weekend. (a weekend when a few friends stay at his house the entire weekend to help him, and 100 neighbors friends and strangers come by to see the show) In April he said May would be his last month, then he said he had already shown the "upcoming event" for the August month, now if he schedules one in September his goose is cooked.

I realize in retrospect that he has "hooked" me with the concept that he knew he needed to make changes in his life, and that "no woman would tolerate his lifestyle". He is lonely and seeks a companion, yet his biggest EN is probably admiration and can be met outside of a relationship with the kind of extravagant things that he does to get kudos from friends, neighbors, and strangers. So while he wants a relationship, he can cake eat because he can also be fairly happy without one. SF is a secondary concern, just as is "a relationship". His former GF was right when she said his priorities are messed up - he does not know (and maybe never needed to know since his needs could get met elsewhere), how to put a relationship first.

V.[/color]

[quote][/quote]
[color:"blue"][/color]

[color:"blue"]In a chair no less?!! Wow!

I think the inability to focus outside of himself may be true here. He was tired, he felt obligated to come and see me even though he was tired, he met his obligation by coming over even though he slept.

And it is somehow my fault because he is just so relaxed (around me).

V.[/color]