HL...it was me explaining my somewhat "different than MB policy" NC that I have in place....it is in relation to my sitch....In your case NC must be adhered to...She was responding to my response to her. Sorry for confusion

I thought about sending a letter to the Other Faithful Spouse? I have no intention of exposing her to our family or her employer.

At what point do I give my spouse an ultimatum of total NC?

Right now she states they have incidental contact due to business and it appears to be that way, so I really don’t want to rock the boat! My WS has said that if enforce a complete NC she’ll do it any way. Even when I told her I needed to be informed of all business contact she hid it from me…I found it in the recycle bin and she blamed me for spying but that’s earlier in this post.

I think at some point I need to discuss my needs to have a good marriage, so I’m asking two questions:

First ultimatum is complete NC with the OM…When should an ultimatum be made and if made what is the ultimatum do it or plan B? Or is that too harsh?

Second ultimatum is the things I need to make our marriage special again, it can be found in my other post

When do you give an ultimatum?

A little update my WS told me that the OM called her last Friday to talk about a business issue. She told me the OM man offered her a position to work and travel with him…than she said I’m just teasing you! She told me the whole conversation lasted only a couple minutes and it was strictly professional. I had two comments, one its great she told me! And the other is he is just trying to keep the contact going, which is what I told her, my W told me you have nothing to worry about it is completely over!

She is stating to open up by telling me and her joke although it may sound harsh would be how I would expect her to act if everything was going well and she wasn’t lying to me.

So do I keep status quo or do I still consider an ultimatum?

HLR, I have begun to notice that in my situation my WW is in a better mood when she is in contact with OM. That is probably what is happening in your case. See what happens if she goes several days or weeks without contact. WW sill become miserable wreck.

HTW

You bring up an interesting point; since I have found out he has gotten cleverer about his contact with her! But I still want to believe my wife, so I have been secretly verifying her comments. He no longer calls her cell phone because I was stupid and told them I saw how many times they communicated and wouldn’t you know no more calls to the cell phone, I think he’s calling her at work and those records are impossible to get.

Sorry HLR but you are a better man than me. My WW made a couple of joking comments like that about her other man and I felt like smacking her. It is not just harsh it is cruel! It sounds like she is just baiting you, hoping for a reaction to justify hers! I'm sorry but it sounds to me like she is still in contact with him and you are fooling yourself. I speak from experience because I am going through the same thing. It's a b*$#h and they just don't seem to get it.

You might be right but the comments from my W are very typical of how should would normally tease me and she has been telling me she wants to try to get to normal. Funny thing is I’m far from normal but commend her for trying… Time is going to tell because I have found an agency that well get you cell phone records and I’ll just check on his calls to her business phone. So I’m going to find out.

My wife wants to get to normal too. I hope your wife's idea of normal isn't the same as mine which means act normal for everybody and continue to do whatever she wants. She seems to think this is a perfectly normal way to live and in all fairness has given me the go ahead to do whatever I want also. Unfortunately that is not what I signed up for and I am now in a position I never wanted to be in and I need to do something about it, it's tough to finally give up but I think I have to.

HLR I'm not trying to burst your bubble I just want you to prepare yourself for the worst. I see on your profile that d-day was 6/25/05 so this is still very fresh for you and there could be many false recoveries in store. When I found out for sure I was told that my WW would stop to stay together for our child, didn't happen. I have asked for NC more than once and was told 'I can't stop doing business with him'. Contact continues to this day and there is no end in sight so I am now forced to act or continue to live like this, no thanks! One thing I would add is continue investigating and do not bad mouth the OM, there's nothing quite like hearing your spouse defend the person who is helping them ruin your life.

BL,

You are correct and I had a conversation about the betrayal and lies, which to me were in many ways worse than the PA. My WS has told me the PA occurred 4 times, with the last happening in March. She also told me that she hates lying but she finds avoidance of the truth acceptable. So, I usually come right out and ask and she’ll either say that’s to hard to answer or answer and many of the times she says it’s to hard to answer she gives me the answer. Obviously, because of what my W did she is no saint but I do believe most things she say’s.

The other thing I have going is her OM is living over 2000 miles away and do to current company commitments won’t be in our state for at least the next couple months. Unfortunately his employer’s parent company is located in our city, which means eventually he’ll be here, but for now my W has told me I have nothing to worry about the A is over and will never happen again.

BL,

I’m in a similar situation but somewhat less contact, I might suggest you start telling your wife “that if we are both committed to our marriage that honesty is the only way we can gain our intimacy and if you find that you are going to have indirect contact due to business, I’m to be informed of every occurrence, thus avoiding a misunderstanding.”

Everyone here is going to tell you strictly no contact, which is what both you and I want but if that just pushes them to lie, you are actually making matters worse. I think as long as our spouses are being honest and not continuing the A, I wouldn’t give them an ultimatum, but if you have proof the A continues or they are lying that is another story!

You should read this entire post it sounds similar even though my D-day is closer, I think there are many similarities.

Hope that helps,

Read the whole comments earlier in this posting.

I'm still puzzled if I should keep the status quo or do I still consider an ultimatum?

HLRomantic, if your W is really committed to you, the M and recovery, she must at least start to search for another job…and I think you must tell her that and give her an ultimatum. If you and your W are living in a country where it is not so difficult to get another job or if it will be possible for you and your W to temporarily survive financially without an income from her, I can’t see why it is so necessary for her to cling to her current job… I get the idea that she wants to cling to her current job because it allows her to have some sort of contact with OM. Even though the contact is only business, it is still contact and help her to get her “fix”.

The business contact will make it very difficult for her to withdraw from the OM and it will prolong her personal recovery and withdrawal. It is also in HER best interest to quit and/or find another job. Please take it from someone who still work at the same company as the FOM – it really put a HUGE strain on my personal AND marital recovery... I’m recovered now, but believe me, it took me a very, very long time to get there and also to get trough withdrawal (my withdrawal was 18 months in total because of the occasional contact)…. I know both my personal & marital recovery AND withdrawal would be so much faster if my circumstances wasn’t of such a nature that I still had to work at the same company than FOM. Set an ultimatum NOW and don’t let you, your W and M go through the same headache…it’s not worth it…

I’m also concerned about the fact that your W is not so willing to inform you about ALL business contact… This tells me that she still has a tendency to lie to you and/or keep certain information a secret from you… This is a danger sign and the other reason you can’t allow ANY kind of contact with the FOM. I also don’t like the fact that she tease you about contact with the OM…this is very insensitive, disrespectful and inconsiderate towards you and I think you must not endure such behavior again in future.

Blessings,
Suzet

Thanks Suzet*,

Let me clarify a couple of things, First she no longer works with the OM; His Company has business dealings with hers, but not really him personally, his last call was for informational [scripts and process] that he knew my wife had and could supply, “I really think it was a way for him to call her because she told him no calls other than business.

Second my wife is an Executive level employee and you just don’t drop a position that you worked your whole life to get unless it was truly interfering.

Third if my wife changed jobs its most likely her new position would require her to travel and potentially see him more, this is a very tight industry.

Currently I know all of her travels and where she has been since D-Day, So I’m trying to get is at this time of the newly discovered A, is it better to stick with plan A and completely give her all the LB’s you can? Or do I demand complete NC, which could push her away?

FLR, isn't it possible for your W to get a job at another industry where she can be an employee on Executive level as well? At a industry/company where she don't need to have any business contact with the OM at all? Maybe it will be hard and took time to find such a industry/company, but at least she can show a willingness to search for such a job. Your W must decide which is most important to her - her career or her M.


As Mel has explained earlier on this thread, putting boundaries is not a LB'er. The idea is not really to demand NC, but to negotiate NC. You must communicate with your W and explain to her that ANY type of contact with the OM is hurtfull & painfull to you and a potential thread for your M, and that you at least expect her to protect you from this by searching for and finding another job. Communicate this without LB'ers and in such a way that it will not push her away... This is what negotiating is all about... Total NC is the least she can do to show a willingness to protect your M and to make amends towards you and the M.

Suzet

Suzet,

Thanks for your comments, but as far as her career goes; if she were working for or with the OM, that would be different. The current CEO of her company is a very sincere person and if he found out it would have grave repercussions. I would rather have her there walking on egg shells and a fine line than at a new company. I know for a fact that at her current place of employment they monitor emails and she is afraid to have any personal emails, especially one with the OM’s name on them. He is well known at that company and she is fearful if a communication was discovered it would harm or end her career. “I actually asked her if she cared more for her career than me, she replied with all you and I have been through to get where we are, why in the world would you think that?”

And for you comment to get a different executive level position, I would add just because you’re an executive in one industry doesn’t mean that you’re going to get similarly compensated in another. She also is quite aware of the turmoil I have had switching my employer and it has created a little strain, but I should hopefully start at a new company in the next couple of weeks.

She has plans to find another job but unfortunately until now that would be the place of employment where the OM works. I told her that would be unacceptable! Under the current circumstances I would be better off if she stays where she is!

As far as NC, she agreed to No Contact except under rare business issues, one being that he was their former COO and his new company has him call their company from time to time, basically to sell services. The current CEO has no desire to have him come to their company under and circumstances. Originally when I started this thread my WS hid the fact he called her and she emailed him, but since than she has came to me to tell me he called and told me that it was strictly businesses. He needed some business scripts that my W had, I don’t doubt it, but I think he used it to call her. My W stated she ended her conversation that her and I “her H” are getting along well considering and I have been a great help to her and she is fully committed to her M.

So my thoughts now are as long as she is committed and honest I’m not going to push, but I’m keeping my options open!

Dear HLRomantic, please know that I was just concerned (and I’m still concerned) for the well-being and marital recovery of you and your W…and as a FWW who have been there and had experience occasional contact with the FOM throughout my withdrawal and recovery, I just wanted to make you aware of the dangers and how that type of contact (even ‘business’ contact) can really hamper and hold back recovery for both the BS and FWS.

Anyway, I have read your last post and I have a better understanding of you and your W’s individual circumstances now… It’s really for you and your W to decide – we are just here to provide opinions and advice from what we read from your posts. Like I’ve said, it’s up to you and your W and if both of you can POJA enthusiastically on anything, that’s good… From your last post it sounds if both you and your W are content and comfortable with the current situation and I guess as long as your W stays sincere, honest and open with you and stays committed to you and the M, there should be no big problems.

Blessings,
Suzet

Thanks Suzet*,

That was wonderful! I really respect the advice of a woman that has been through this and is sharing her time and thoughts.

I think my W is sincere, if I find any thing to contradict that I’ll post it here immediately to get your advice! In a letter I gave my W, I explained that honest is the most important part of our marriage. To fully understand how and what I said,

Please read my post on:

How to make my marriage special again?
Infidelity >> Plan A/Plan B

I created a letter of what I thought we needed to make our marriage special again, this was done because when I first found out, I told my W that I thought we had a special M and her A changed all that! She said many things can make a M special and we can have one again. Latter she told me I should think about what I need to have a special M? I created this 5 point letter and received no feed back her at MB, so I decided it was time to discuss it. The letter turned out to be successful but not quite initially and my W has kept it so it must mean something to her too.

If you read it I would appreciate any of yours comment,

Thanks,

HLRomantic, I’ve checked out your letter on the other board and I think it was a wonderful letter! I’m sure the letter means much to your W. I’m saying this because I think there must be something wrong with a woman who don’t appreciate such a special and romantic letter from her H! I’m sure your W will respond to the letter –just give her some extra time. Maybe she will respond to you with a letter as well… Let’s wait and see.

One word of caution though…don’t try to avoid to discuss the issues with your W which lead her to make wrong choices and have an A... One or other time your W needs to start doing intense introspection and work on her personal issues. She must discover “why” she had the A so that she can take actions to work on herself and correct those things. On another thread you have mentioned that your W said ”The A just happened”. This is an unacceptable answer and I think your W is trying to avoid the hard work of self-searching etc. I remember I’ve sent you a lengthy response on the other thread about this.

Blessings,
Suzet