Although she is quite outspoken and brutally honest about her attitudes regarding our marriage (see my previous post), W firmly denies any affair. Boy is she convincing. But the pattern and the evidence suggest otherwise. Yet I cannot produce definitive evidence and cannot get any admission. First the evidence and then I have some questions to ask in my next post. I apologize for the length of the story. Its therapeutic.

For the past four or five years, our fourteen year marriage has not been great, but I did not experience it as “bad” either. In fact, W and I had occasional talks about it, and she always said she was satisfied. That is until late last year. In the fall, her job duties changed at a major corporation and she began working with a new group of people. Among them was a divorced woman about W’s age I’ll call Satan. Satan was a high school cheerleader that never grew up. Breast implants and lots of makeup, she is the company “social director” for a good time. I’m saving some discussion about the influence of “friends” for another time, but for now, just suffice to say that she hit it off with W and suddenly W had a new circle of friends.

I did not mind that in any way. I had no alarms. But in retrospect, W attitudes began to change contemporaneously with this acquisition of the new friendships. It was slow at first. She began to become increasingly distant, more critical of me. She stopped sharing her days in the same way. She appeared to be losing interest. Suddenly there were “girls nights out.” She told me who was there, and I began to hear about this guy Ray.

Ray is a single department head at the company, but not in her department. I was told that Ray was Satan’s old boss and they (Satan and Ray) were great friends. In fact, W said, she thought Ray was interested in Satan (who has a live in boyfriend). When I expressed mild concern that “girls nights out” included men, she told me Ray was like one of the girls. In fact, he might even be gay. When I pointed out the inconsistency between her saying that she thought he was interested in Satan and also might be gay, she passed it off by saying that she meant he acted effeminate.

I pressed to be included and it was resisted. She needed her own space and we needed to do some things apart – that would be good for our relationship. A counselor had told us that once and so I let it go. Finally, I was invited to an event and I met Ray. No alarms. He barely seemed to notice W. But he did not seem effeminate either. True, he was an engineer and very precise and neat, so perhaps I could see where she was coming from … I guess.

Meanwhile, things were getting steadily worse in our relationship. The distance impressed itself on my consciousness. W began to work out and lose weight. She started making herself up before work (something she had not done before) and bought new clothes. Ones that made her look great. She began working longer hours. Where once we would negotiate who would have to get up early to take our daughter to school, she was up early every day and seemed to be working an hour or more later every night. It seemed that there was always some reason she had to go to the office on a weekend. Just for an hour or two.

I started to suspect that she was having an A in about March. I had nothing more than what I’ve told here, but it was an intuition and it grew stronger all the time. I told her that I felt something was wrong and asked if there was something going on. She denied it. But the feelings persisted and so did the “girls nights out” and the suspicious behavior. From phone conversations and such, I knew that the girls nights were at least partially legit, at least Satan and her group of two or three other women were involved in planning and talking about these outings.

The feeling got so strong that I got online and learned about the semen detection kits. I felt incredibly guilty for snooping around on her this way, but I tested three of her panties randomly selected from the dirty laundry. Negative. I felt paranoid and stupid and I tried to let the suspicions drop.

But that all changed one Saturday in May. She had been to work, again. She came home and had only been home a minute when she went out to water the plants. Her cell phone rang and I picked it up. There was a number I did not recognize and when I answered it, it was a man. Ray. She had an excuse for his call – they were friends, he liked to ride his bike in our area and she had told him that if he was ever in the neighborhood, to call and he could stop by. When I asked why he had her cell phone number, she stammered. She said she must have given it to him at some point … no real explanation. But she was angry that I answered her phone. Ray never showed.

I tossed and turned that night. I decided that perhaps I should look on her phone and note that number in case I saw it again. In looking at her phone, I also checked the auto dial numbers she had programmed in. Sure enough, his number was there – the only one without a name attached. My head was swirling. I decided that before I said anything, I would check the cell records the next day and see what I found.

What I found was that, starting in late March, Ray’s number began to appear on her cell records. The calls were usually short in duration and during the working hours, except for one Friday, when there was a 45 minute call in the early evening and then sporadic calls to his number throughout the night until after midnight and then one the next morning about 10 am. The fog grew thicker as I tried to piece that back into my mind. That was a couple of months ago, and I just could not place the date.

That night, while lying in bed it hit me; that was the night of my daughter’s birthday party. She was turning 13 and she wanted to rent a hotel room at a place that had a pool and invite several friends. W chaperoned. She had told me that Satan and some of the girls volunteered to “help” and that they had sat around the pool that evening and had some wine. I had called her a couple of times that evening and she never mentioned anything about Ray.

I was upside down. I woke her up and asked her if Ray was at the hotel the night of daughter’s party. She stammered again and said, well, yes, she thought maybe he showed up for a few minutes. She explained that Satan had called him and asked him to drop off a bottle of wine from work (they are in the food industry), he stayed a few minutes and left. I lost it and said I knew that was not the whole story, that she had called him throughout the night and demanded to know what was going on.

She had another explanation. Satan had used her cell phone to call Ray and the girls were all sitting around by the pool and they all wanted to give him grief. They were passing her phone around. And later he left unexpectedly with one of the girls and she was calling to see where they were and if they were coming back. She did not tell me the whole story, she said, because she knew I’d react with jealousy and she did not want to go through it.

Then she turned on the offensive. Why does she have to answer to me anyway? What was I doing checking her phone? I was invading her privacy. Ray was a friend – was I trying to tell her who her friends could be? She started saying that what this was really about was that she was trying to get a life of her own and I did not want her to have her own friends and a life beyond her role as wife. All I cared about was having a house cleaner and cook and prostitute. It was time for her to start standing up for herself and she was not going to let me rule her life. I was too controlling and I was driving her away.

I was so confused. I started trying to look at myself critically and see if there was truth in her accusations. Now when I asked about her activities, she got angry. What, are you going to start having me followed now??, was a typical response. I waited to see if the behavior would change after this. The next week there were no late nights at work. I held my breath as Saturday came. I had to take my son to his piano lesson and I asked what W would be doing. She said she was going get some shopping done. Okay … at least she was not saying she was going to work. When the lesson was done, I called W on her cell phone and when I asked where she was, my heart sank as she said she was at work – she had to pick something up.

I rushed out to the office – it was a 20 min. drive. Her car was in the lot. If she was just “picking something up”, why was she still there. I went to the door and could see her inside with her feet propped up on a chair like she was settled in for a long time, talking on a cell phone. When she saw me, she got off the phone like it was a hot potato, put it on the desk and let me in. She said she was talking to her friend Debbie and she was obviously flustered. She wanted to know why I was there and I made an excuse and she hurried me out. But as she left, I saw that HER cell phone was in her purse. She was talking on a different phone.

I demanded to know what was going on. She accused me of being paranoid. She said that was the office cell phone (it’s a long story, but yes, they have one) and that I needed professional help. I said, if that’s true, lets go back inside and let me see the call history on that phone. If it’s as you say, I’ll go and get help. She refused. She said she would not submit to my crazy demands. But I persisted and after a long and tortuous argument, she admitted she was talking to Ray. But she STILL claimed that it was entirely innocent and that she was hiding it only because of my insane jealousy. I had shown that I could not be trusted to handle the truth in a rational way, she said. And she was not going to abandon her innocent friendships for the sake of my insecurities.

Besides, she said, Ray was not her type. Why would she put her family at risk that way? She is not interested in other men. Blah blah blah. Then came the counter attack again. I was tying to control her and tell her what to do, etc. That was June.

It has gone steadily down hill from there until we have arrived at the state expressed in my last post. She hides her cell phone now, and her records show that the calls had increased in frequency to every day and then stopped entirely on the day I revealed I was on to them. They stopped for about a month and a half, but now they are creeping back in. I have caught her in at least one other outright lie about outings involving Ray. She admits NOTHING.

I’ve got some questions for you fine people on my next post. Thanks for reading.

DHD,

Trust your instincts....

It sounds like an affair to me.

Pick up the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. The Harleys recommend it - and it deals in more detail about workplace affairs than anything else on the market.

My best advice is that you call the counseling number on the website and make an appointment with Steve Harley. He'll help you with a specific plan for your situation. He's the best!

If there was nothing to hide....she would hide nothing.

Reading the books suggested will help you better understand your W's behaviour.

It is an affair....count on it.

When is the next girls night out?

In His arms

Trust your gut. This is all typical stuff. You have your proof. You are not crazy.

By the way...for continuity...would be best to stick to one thread for your story and not keep starting new threads. If you can't find it you can click on your name and go to all of your posts or try looking on previous pages. It will be easier for other's to follow your story as it progresses.

Get the books I recommended on the other thread.
She has lost all right to privacy. There is no need for privacy in a marriage.

Plan A.

Get yourself strong. You are at the beginning of a rollercoaster ride. Try to not lovebust or use disrrespectful judgements. Be calm, loving, but firm in all of your discussions with your wife. No whining of begging because you will only look pathetic and powerless. Get all your ducks in a row...check your legal rights in your state. Be prepared. I may be jumping the gun but things usually get worse before they get better.

Under no circumstances will you move out if she suggests it once everything hits the fan. If anyone leaves it should be her but hopefully you can avoid that by following a good plan A.

Thanks for the advice so far -- I think W is lying to her IC as well about the A; we both go to the same one. Does this seem typical?? I mean, if you are going to counseling, wouldn't you want to tell your therapist the truth??????

Real life is very easy to explain, but when someone has a very elaborate reason as to why something occured, it is a lie. I don't believe for a second what your wife is telling you. Sorry to be blunt, but she must be lying.

It is like Sherlock Holmes once said, "When you eliminate all that is impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

DHD I have responded on your other posts and want to let you know that you need to get out of your state of denial.


I heard the exact same thing in May of 2004 and was not fortunate enough to have found this site until months later.

My wife's cell phone is pay as you go so I don't have that source but my home phone bill showed the same thing as your wife's cell.

The working out and the new clothes happened too.

By the way, did your wife used to talk about Ray to you in normal coversation and then all of a sudden stop? That should give you a pretty good idea when Ray became more than a friend.

DO NOT feel bad about questioning her or checking up on her this is not the woman you married and she may never be again. You need to prepare yourself for the worst because I am sad to say that reading your posts is like reading what my journal of the last 16 months would say. It is almost [color:"red"] SURREAL [/color] to read your words.

People on this board talk about how infidelity follows a script and it is always the same, well I'm here to tell you that you need to listen to their advice. I do not want another person to have to go through the hell I have at the hands of the person they loved and trusted most in the world. It is the worst experience, by far, of my life!!!

DH,

No, people don't tell their counselors the truth always. In my case, FWH and I were in MC during his affair.

He didn't tell me, or the MC about the affair. I only learned about if after he ended the affair. Instead of being truthful in MC, we spent alot of time dealing with his anger at me for not meeting his ENs. (at the time I didn't know about ENs - so it wasn't addressed this way.)

It was only after he read His Needs Her Needs - did he see the need to tell me about his affair. We began counseing with Steve Harley - and have been in recovery for over 3 years.

So, yes - many lie in IC/MC. I would suspect it isnt unusual at all.

FWW lied through her teeth in MC and IC. Her A was as intense as ever throughout that year. I think it somehow made it even more exciting for her.

In fact, when IC started to get close to the truth she quit going.

I am sorry my friend but she is playing you for a fool. If the roles were reversed, do you think she would put up with such crap? I would have a friend follow her to her nights out and I guarantee you that you will probably find Ray hanging all over her. She is acting like a single woman. You could also hire a PI. She is showing all of the signs of a person in a classic affair. She will lie, lie and lie until she gets caught and they will still lie.
Again have a friend visit the bars she is in or hire a PI.
I think down deep you know the truth already. I would also have you protect yourself legally and financially. The fact that she is hanging out with guys is very bad. It is classic to say the guy is gay (my ex-wife used this line on me also) or he is not my type yet they are always communicating. It is sad that she is humiliating and disrespecting your this way. It is pretty obvious what is happening. The question is what are you going to do about it?

WS' lie to marriage counselors all the time. I don't know why anyone would be surprised about that. The others are right, your W is having an affair and you need to find out with whom. I would suggest hiring a P.I., tapping your phone, putting spyware on your computer; whatever you need to do to find out.

Find out who, and then get to work busting up this affair by exposing it. Your marriage is salvagable if you have what it takes to do the tough stuff and save it.

Yes, the question is what am I going to do about it ... please give me some help ... what stands the best shot at working??? Is exposure the best thing or will that just drive her away faster? I'm reeling ....

DH,

I may be repeating myself, but my best advice is to call the counseling line on this website and make an appointment with Steve Harley.....saved my husband and I so much pain, and to be honest I probably learned more than he did, becasue I had more to learn.

First, you're correct, trust your gut! Trust your nose. Trust your own eyes. I have learned that if it looks like crap, it smells like crap...IT'S CRAP!!!

I hate to be another one that tells you my XW slept with two men she did not ever find attractive.....one before our divorce and another afterwards. They were not her type either....

Your wife is following the script in a big way. The "right to privacy, your paraniod, irrational....every BS on this board has been called those AND THEN SOME...

You need to plan A. NC with this guy or Plan B. There are many pros on this board who can help you but you MUST HELP YOURSELF!! Every fear you have has been realized by BS...you're not alone. You can't be afraid of losing her, she's already gone.

Good luck

DHD,

Where does Ray live??? HHHhhhhhmmmmmmmm?????

k

A link to Plan A and Plan B explained:

What are Plan A and Plan B?

Your sounds classic. Try not to lose heart.

If you are a Christian believer...start to pray pro-actively/earnestly.

Its time to hire a P.I.!!!

DHD- Just to chime in. Trust your gut here. My W of 18 years then started working out, tanning, even shaved down there, was using the cell phone behind my back, mentioned OM (who was a friend and minister by the way) casually in conversation and then stopped, lied to me about who she was talking to on the phone and I confirmed by checking it, and lied in MC for an entire year until I finally got the goods and could confront. I could go on. You need to Plan A and continue to look for the truth in something solid that will allow you to expose. Just my thoughts.

DHDad,

My WW had the OM's phone number under OMW's name in her phone book. How clever eh?

She's having an affair. Listen to Melody and get proof and then get the ball rolling on exposure. MC won't help if she's still in an A. Several people on here have tried, its a waste of time and money until there is NC. Get the proof and then you can start a plan.

Hang in there,

Miker