[color:"brown"] I am sitting here shaking. Mr. Too Comfy called to tell me that he forgot another appointment he had scheduled to rent his hobby/business and wanted to call and let me know.

He has done this two or three times before. He says he is no longer going to accept these appointments which last 3 hours (one memorable one lasted 6 hours), and usually end up smack in the middle of a day away from the kids. Well I guess he figured he could tell me he wasn't going to have any more then change it to he wasn't going to schedule anymore on the weekends.

Folks he doesn't schedule them during the weekends because it is pool season and he doesn't want to give up pool time. He told me this! Does he really think I am that stupid?!

Then when I say that he said he wasn't going to do this he tried to deny it, then he tried to tell me that it wasn't important because we didn't have any plans anyway.

Well again folks, the only times that we don't have plans are times when his memory fails him and something like this pops up. Every time - never fails. I was waiting for the other shoe to drop when he didn't make plans for Friday on Thursday when we (in detail) discussed plans for the weekend.

It's not even important - it doesn't matter he says.

His parent's anniversary was this week. For the second year he decides that my children would be bored and his folks would want a nice quiet dinner.

His folks ask me all the time why I don't come by more with the children.

It's not even important - it doesn't matter he says.

So me, the one who keeps her cool under so many circumstances lost my cool. Totally. I tell him that once again he has screwed up his priorities. He says he couldn't turn down a friend. (But you can enrage your girlfriend and that is OK?) I say fine I understand and hang up. And stew. He calls back.

Why are you so angry?

It's not even important - it doesn't matter he says.

He tries to rationalize to me how it would be different if we had plans and gee he has scheduled the whole day tomorrow to be with me and the kids. (Gee did you have to sacrifice for this?!)

Actually, he didn't want to start the day until noon. So he could read his morning paper and have coffee I imagine.

It's not even important - it doesn't matter he says.


In a rage I tell him that I am through. Done. Fini. I no longer want to be his girlfriend and I want him to stop calling me.

He won't stop calling me.

He tells me in a message that I am being mean because I won't talk to him.

V.[/color]

H,

dump the guy,

keep looking, although i realize that Entp part really likes the company. . .

its harder as you get older, there are fewer and fewer good guys around. . . the odds are against it.

wiftty

[color:"blue"] Thanks for the comforting words wiffty.

He denied everything. He maintains that I have hurt him deeply by saying he is a liar.

That he was finally picturing us all together as a family. (and now I've ruined it)

He says he feels like ending it all because he can't make anyone happy. (How come I pick all the frikkin suicidal grandstanding narcissistic whack jobs?)

He's very sad because I was his best friend.

I feel like a mean horrible person who goes around destroying people's lives.

V. [/color]

If it walks like a duck......trust your gut. You did the right thing -IMVHO.

keep smilin

Keep ignoring him.

If he doesn't stop get a restraining order.

I agree. It's time for this looser to hit the road. You're being used and ignored. I suspect that these things he can't get out of or won't stop doing is him seeing another woman. He doesn't do what he say he's going to do and he can't be depended upon. And he's been manitpulating you and now plays the "end it all trump card." This man's got serious problems and I'm glad to see you've decided not to make them YOUR problem.

If you don't have it, add call blocking to your phone. Don't take his calls. Don't listen to his messages - just hit the delete button as soon as you hear his voice. It won't take long before he gets the message you're finished.

Wow, what creepy manipulative tactics he's using.

Definitely not worth your time.

Listen, sunny, rant away -- the kind of tactics he's been using can feel like a subtle poison, and verbalizing them is a step towards working the poison out. This thread is a rantage zone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

because most likely you came from a family with that in its genetics, and you feel most comfortable with them becuase you grew up with them, and they feel normal. . .

sorry,

you didn't get a choice in which family to grow up in. .

wiffty

Sorry, wiffty, but this has nothying to do with genetics or childhood family dynamics. It has everything to do with sunnyva and the choices she makes. Everyone needs to stop blaming their mistakes and problems on their families. Sure, a dysfunctional childhood may have left us unprepared and damaged, but we don't get to blame anyone other than ourselves for not fixing ourselves once we are grown. Blaming your childhood is a dodge and you can't learn and grow by doing this.

Wiffty's larger point, though, is definitely something you should think about, sunnyva. If you find that choose wack-jobs time and again, you need to figure out why and make some changes.

Heh, the last couple of posts made me chuckle.

Sunny, some of the thinking patterns you've shown on your recent threads here are pretty typical of someone who grew up in an abusive home and is confused about boundaries. It's true that it's not the "fault" of anyone in your childhood; you are an adult and how you make your choices is entirely your responsibility. But it's also true this isn't some freakish inborn character defect and you're just broken; it's natural enough given where you've been.

Time to be fixing it now. Have you read some of the Boundaries books? They're worth reading many times over.

[color:"brown"]I agree that he has been neglecting me, and taking me for granted, and being manipulative. I sincerely doubt that he is seeing another woman. He has never tried to conceal where he is or who he is with - never been secretive like that.[/color]


[color:"brown"]Dude I'm damaged goods. I'm much better at dodging the truly abusive ones, but I still get hooked by the subtle or smart ones. And telling me it is a dodge doesn't help much. I'm not using it as a dodge. I come to this board because I am aware of my disadvantage and sometimes need a sounding board to figure things out.[/color]


[color:"brown"]I pick them for exactly the reason wiffty pointed out - they feel comfortable to me. This guy truly is not bad - just self absorbed. Bad relationship material. And this is something that is not spotted in the "courtship" part of a relationship when they are still trying to "hook" you. So I feel like I've done OK this time.

V.[/color]

[color:"brown"]They feel less and less normal - I feel more and more confident over spotting weirdness.[/color]


[color:"brown"]Thanks wiffty - I know how you struggled thinking that your ex's foo issues caused some of the angst in your relationship and the issues with the children that followed. I hope that things are more peaceful for you on that front. I have bent over backwards with the boy's father in order to keep the peace regarding visitation, etc. I don't know if you were aware, but he moved 4 hours away, turning me into a single mom and making the visitation a nightmare of commuting!

Thanks again for your support. One question. Do you find yourself drawn to women like your ex?

V.[/color]

[color:"brown"]There were no boundaries in my childhood home. I try to find a balance but to me it is hard to tell when I am being taken advantage of and when I am giving my share to a relationship.[/color]


[color:"brown"]I am a scientist and understand the link is generally seen as nurture rather than nature.[/color]


[color:"brown"]I read several of the T&C books and maybe one other author during the death throes of my marriage. I am actually thinking now that the earlier you set boundaries in a relationship, the sooner you figure out if the guy is not worth your time or not. Although this guy talked the talk, I didn't see much action. The last time we had an issue over a similar situation he justified his current behavior by telling me that previously that sort of thing (his having parties) was every weekend and he had cut way back from previous years.

I'm thinking - wouldn't it be more in line to just say that you would try to be more accommodating and not this justification? I got caught up (again - previously tried to teach the ex MB principles) in thinking that I just needed to teach him how to make a naked apolgy?

V.[/color]

[color:"brown"]Talk about creeped out - my (very) passive aggressive ex used to threaten suicide - even go as far as to sit upstairs with his gun in his lap. I am creeped to the max. BTW - with ex I told him that the next time he pulled this [censored] (I only said [email]cr@p[/email] what's the biggie) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I would call the men with the white coats... He never did it again. But then he did tell me I was cold and heartless for that particular boundary.

V. [/color]

Bingo. And the better chance you give your relationship of being sustainable.


That's a boundary failure on your part -- too much accepting talk instead of action.


In line with what, is the question. In line with building intimacy with you, certainly. His behavior is in line with his priorities.


That's both a boundary failure and a DJ.

It's disrespectful to decide what your SO needs to be "taught", and disrespectful to decide you are his teacher.

It's also a boundary failure in that you are trying to take ownership of something you do not own. Whether or not he learns certain behaviors is his issue. It is not yours. Leave ownership of it to him, and focus on your own things to take care of. I have to say it really sounds like you're due for a reread of Boundaries.

"Dude I'm damaged goods. "

You misunderstood me. I didn't say you were dodging. I said blaming your adult problems on your childhood, dysfucntional family, the dog, that bi*ch at work, etc. is a dodge. You have to take full ownersip of your problems before you can resolve them.

Your statement I quoted above is why you keep attracting these kinds of men. You say yourself that they are clever and subtle. You bet they are! Do you believe for a minute you aren't sending them all the right signals to let them know that you considered yourself damaged goods? You better bet you are and they are actively looking for them. They will find your weak spots and use them to keep you off balanced and unsure of yourself. Then it's easier to manipulate and control you.

Until you can stop thinking of yourself as "damaged goods" maybe you shouldn't be dating. You're a target. It seems like you are working on this and that your jerk radar is becoming fine-tuned.

[color:"brown"]Actually I had drawn a line in the sand on several issues. now he is trying to point out that he was not going to have any more of the weekend long events after August - the one I said previously I was waiting for to see if he would schedule more after that date.[/color]


[color:"brown"]I agree totally.[/color]


[color:"brown"]I don't know if I agree with you on this one. I don't need a fourth child and I have time and again refused to make decisions for him - and he has tried to put me in that position. So I don't think I've tried to set myself up as some guru.

Telling a loved one that you don't want to hear justifications and excuses - that an apology is more soothing when it covers the wrong but not the exuses is only honest communication as far as I'm concerned. Working on communication skills and POJA is part of the MB principles and I think talking about things like naked apoligies falls into that category.

I was irritated the last time we had an argument that rather than apologizing for his bad behavior (he embarrassed me in front of all of his friends), he put the responsibility outside of himself (he was drinking, he was upset, he couldn't help it if his friends didn't leave before dinner time... [/color]


[color:"brown"]I already dug out my books for a reread, but I don't know that I've taken ownership for his problems. I backed out completely.

V.[/color]

I see where some of the confusion is, but I'm not sure how to get this across.

How it works in this scenario to own only what's your and decline any ownership of what's his is more like this:

You tell him that you expect that anyone you date exclusively will give you a significant amount of time and undivided attention each week. If that's not the case, it's time for you to be looking for someone who has that to give.

That's it. No negotiating about how many more weekend events, or what he does for work, or any of it. Just a discussion of what time you will spend together and what you will during that time. If it doesn't happen, boundary time. C&T suggest some possibilities other than breaking it off completely, like telling him you don't want to see him for a few weeks while you both think about whether you want the same things.

As for the "teaching" thing, yes it is a DJ, even though you weren't the one trying to create that dynamic. Just don't go there -- it's a headache all around. And as you've discovered, it's a handy manipulation tactic -- all of a suddent the problem isn't that he's not taking care of his behavior, but that you haven't "taught" him well enough.

Not trying to hijack your thread here, Sunnyva, but I have a question for everyone. If the person you are in a committed relationship isn't capable or willing to devote the amount of time you require and your requirement isn't unreasonable, why would you wish to continue in the relationship and even marry this person? We all know about the 15 hour per week rule. You know what? That isn't evnough time for a married couple to devote to a marriage in order to keep it healthy. That's bare minimum in my opinion. So if you can't get this in a nonmarital relationship, why even think about going forward?

Val,

from what you type, you are having a hard time saying, "it was nice to know you, but no thanks!" YOu may be wanting male companionship, but you need NOT to allow yourself to be used in order to get someone.

I would work on being more independent, and therefore make yourself less attractive to the manipulative types. The signals that you are putting out is that you are willing to put up with krap to keep some male companionship. . .

my personal rule, if you don't take personal responsibility for your actions all the time, i don't go out with you.

As soon as a SO starts to show signs of not taking personal responsibility, or putting any of one's responsibility on me, they are history. .. and that is the point that i was working on with my daughter today. . she was trying to avoid it by putting it on me, and i wouldn't take it. . in fact, i let her get away without wearing a helmut while riding bikes, even though her older brother did so on his own, and he got lots of kudos, and then daughter tried to put the responsibility on me. . . and i refused. . .

NEVER take someone else's responsibility for their bad decisions. .. after that, life is easy

wiftty