I've read some of this site and find it to be wonderful. I stumbled on it after feeling resigned to the fact that my wife was truly through with me.

In March my wife and I had a discussion that lead to the realization that she was done with me. Basically, I was guilty of all the things that are in "Why women leave men". Part of the problem is due to my infidelity 15 years ago. She never confronted me on it and I stopped on my own because I felt it was wrong. We've spoken of it a couple of times in the last 4 months.

During our talk I asked about reconcilliation. Her reply has consistently been "I can't see that happening". She never says "no way" or anything like it. When I asked about counseling she said it doesn't work or only works if both people want the same thing.

I decided that I wanted to fight for her and have been to counseling and therapy to deal with my pain and the root causes of my problems.

We have been married for 22 years and dated for 4 before that. Our first date was on my 18th birthday. We have 3 kids - girl 14, girl 16 and boy 19. They're wonderful and she's been a terrific mother to them. She says I was a poor father but most everyone else disagrees with that statement. For a while I believed her. Sure, I COULD have been better but I was/am pretty good.

What I want to know is, how do I know if reconcilliation is impossible? She refuses counseling.

She has moved from continuing to have sex with me (that didn't last long, 3 times in a couple of weeks at the beginning) to sleeping on the floor or outside when the weather permits. When I asked her if she was just avoiding sleeping in the same bed she replied that "she liked sleeping outside and it was better for her back".

Every morning she kisses me goodbye before she goes to work but when I say "have a good day" she never replies with anything. I say good morning to her every morning but the best reply I've gotten is "hi". Generally, she'll smile at me ONLY with a fake smile. She excludes me from plans with the kids.

How do I know? What do I do?

Thanks for any advice.

Hopeful,

Ouch! How old is your wife? I'm assuming in her 40s. there are several things to consider here. We all go through stages in our lives and each of them have different psychological needs to be met. Women in their 40s will often develop a strong desire for independence. They want to prove to themselves and the world that they don't need a man, but can make it on their own. Sometimes, women going through this will walk away from a perfectly good marriage, so you can imagine that they have less difficulty doing so when the marriage is less than perfect. The very sad downside of this phenomenon, is that the vast majority of these women, especially those who didn't have bad marriages, get past this desire in their 50s and deeply regret throwing their marriages away.

Another possible factor is what some marital therapist call the "runaway wife syndrome." These women have made up their minds that they no longer care to deal with a problem marriage. They give up and emotionally divorce their husband. Once this has happened, it is nearly impossible to change their minds and attempting to do so only pushes them farther away. She has already started increasing the emotional distance from you and in all probability has already emotionally divorced you.

Your infidelity was not dealt with at the time and now it is an old wound that never healed fully and has made a big scar. You will require the help of a very good marital therapist to work through this issue.

I don't see that you have too many options here. Your best bet right now would be to try a Plan A. Don't expect too much, since the point of a Plan A is to meet her emotional needs without any expectation that yours be met in return. Theproblem here is that she may no longer be paying you much attention and won't much care about what you do or will consider yuo disingenuous - just trying to save your butt. but you never know, if you are earnest, as time passes, she will recognize your effort and appreciate what you are doing. She may start thinking about that 22 year investment and what the two of you have built together and open her heart again.

Marital therapy is a must here. If she won't go, go yourself. She's correct that therapy can only work if both partners want the same thing - namely to save the marriage. But you should still go. You can learn some things and, along with the Plan A, she may decide that it's worth the effort. If she doesn't, a marital therapist can help you deal with the dissolution of the marriage in a healthy way.

BTW, for those of you reading this and contemplating divorce, here's a news flash for you. Research has shown that nearly all marriages will have a serious crisis at some point. When the couple decides to stick it out, regardless of how problemed the marriage may be, the marriage will always eventually get better and become fulfilling again. This is true whether the couple seeks professional assistance or not, but a good marriage therapist can get you through the crisis quicker and more healthily. The other side of this is people tell themselves that "I'll be happier if I get out of this marriage." Research has shown this to be a false statement. Those in truly abusive relationships will, but the vast majority of divorced people are actually LESS happy five years after a divorce and this is true even if you remarry.

Best of luck!

That is what I feared. I believe that she'd just like to get independent. Early in our discussions I asked her what she'd like to do and she said "I'd like to be able to make decisions without having to consider anyone else's needs".

Sounds like things are already past fixing. I'm still trying plan A. I was working on that before I found this site but couldn't tell all that I needed to do. Needless to say, much of what I was doing for the last 4 months was less than ideal.

To compound things, my 14yo daughter and I haven't gotten a decent relationship yet. I managed to form good relationships with the other 2 - even taking them both on adventures backpacking, whitewater rafting, etc. This daughter is trying to keep her distance. The girls are at home (the older one goes away to high school, though) so they read the situation. The 14yo is there to feel the tention and it gives her another reason to push me away.

Thanks.

Another thing - yes, she's 44. She did the stay-at-home-mom thing until a couple of years ago when I told her she had to go back to work since I had lost a very good paying job and could not get hired. I've since returned to work to teach computer science.

A cooling of our relationship started about the same time. I finally confronted her about it last spring. We used to share a ride to work since we only worked 2 blocks from each other. When I'd kiss her goodbye it was like kissing an aunt. Then we got into a routine where we'd only have sex on Saturday evening - so 3x per month.

Last school year she stopped including me in plans for our youngest daughter's basketball and volleyball games. I had to get myself to the game and home, was only informed as an aside to daily activity, etc.

Doesn't look good.

Thanks again.

Plan A/Plan B are for the betrayed spouse to implement when their spouse is having an affair. Although you can implement one of the components of Plan A/Plan B and that is to avoid all love busters [i.e. angry outbursts, selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, dishonesty, independent behavior and annoying habits].

You may also want to consider avoiding the following:

1) Begging her not to leave [if she hasn't done so].

Doing so conveys to her that she does not have the right to be honest about her unhappiness and do something about it. It would tell her that she is not okay.

2) Telling her you'll change.

Telling her you will change after 15 years feels fake. She knows you are desperate. And desperation is unappealing. Women, for the most part, want a strong man. A man who is confident, aware of his needs and her needs. Why not consider conveying to her something along these lines:


3) Communicating with her frequently.

You know that she is controlling the situation right now. You can either fight it or submit to it. Instead of trying to force the issue of reconciliation, consider talking with her about the issues that both of you share as parents. If she initiates the conversation then engage her. If she wants to argue, let her vent her frustrations without attacking her.

4) Making her feel guilty for trying to tear up the family.

Your W is not perfect, nobody is. She probably acknowledges this fact. However, you take responsibility for yout own problems. Doing this, you'll become compassionate towards her and never use the children to make her feel guilty.

By not falling for these 4 traps, you will avoid making your W defensive which is the last thing you want to do. This will help you avoid stirring up negative emotions that will make her more convince of her decision.

Nobody can guarantee that your marriage will be saved/rebuilt but you can certainly improve your chances and no matter what the outcome of your marriage, you will know that you have done your best.

TMCM

Great advice, TMCM! I can tell you that my WW could not have cared less that I loved her and told me so. She said she didn't know whether she still loved me and she didn't care about that either.

Hopeful, is there a possibility that she's having an affair?

AND FINALLY,

To add to the great suggestions you have gotten don't overlook the possibility that your W is involved in an Affair. It may not be a physical affair, PA, but it might be an emotional affair, EA. A lot of her behavior is consistent with this issue.

I hate to mention this but keep your eyes open and do some checking.

But, the remedy for all of this is really the same. You need to do what you acknowledge you have not done in the past and that is focus on her as much as she will allow without smothering her. It will take time but this can be addressed.

God Bless,

JL

As far as an affair is concerned. I don't see any evidence of that. We even had a discussion about it earlier. Her time is just too well accounted for - something that has always been true. I could call her at work even during lunch and I'd reach her. Her work ethic is too strong for her to allow herself to spend time "making time". I could be blind to it but I doubt it.

It's possible that she's found a friend at work but beyond that I just don't see it.

We're not trying to plant ideas, hopeful, but JustLearning is right; your wife's behavior is consistent with her having an affair. EAs are very, very common. They start out innocently enough and are not always sought out. They begin most often in the workplace. Sometimes people find themselves in an EA before they understand what's going on.

My W's time was always accounted for, too. I could always reach her when I needed her. I could not have envisioned that whe was having an affair. If someone had told me that she was, I'd have shook my head and laughed at them. But she was. One of the first signs? Her behavior and attitude toward me changed rather abruptly, followed shortly by a marked decrease in a desire for sex and then no sex at all. Her back was bothering her, too. Didn't seem to slow her down for anything other than making love to me, though.

I hope this isn't the case for you, but as suggested, keep your eyes open and do some descrete checking.