Don't feel bad Undo - you are early in this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You will learn these things that make your H uncomfortable as you go. Think of it too as your own protection...if your A was anything like mine, it started with two people privately talking about their pain in the marriages and giving eachother support, which led to feelings..which led to the A. Even though I know I would never have one again...i wont ever put myself in a position where I could too...so even help a man privately from these boards would be a no-no for not only my H's protection, but mine too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Welcome to the boards though - it's gonna be a long journey for you - but you can do it and you will prevail!

Thanks everyone,

Yes, I do want to believe her! But I know I must say that with my guard up, no more well I follow her blindly believing everything, but I want a marriage based on trust. I asked her to have faith in me and tell me, she has shown some courage by doing so…I still believe her that is hard for her to lie to me and she has told me she capitulated and justified it by saying an omission isn’t a lie and I don’t want to hurt my husband…She says she knows how bad she has hurt me and regrets that more than anything…she know she can’t change the past or she would…we must concentrate on the future and build our life together if I’m willing and we can.

Yes she’s now starting to talk, but I’m looking to other WS’s for answers.

Thanks Dorry...

Hopeful4future,

Do you still think about the A every day? If not how did you move past it? I really want to move past but I sometimes feel Obsessed, what happened and will it occur again, where is my marriage going and how does my wife truly feel?

HLR,

The emotional side of me thinks this -

I think about it everyday. It kills me and I can't believe that she did this to us. She knew exactly what she was doing and didn't worry about the guilt until she left the OM every Wednesday night. If the guilt was truly that strong then she wouldn't have gone to his bed in the first place. But the guilt was only there after she would leave him and then she thought about me. This is about as selfish and thoughtless as you can get. She knew I loved her and she had the nerve to tell me that she never stopped loving me. Yeah, right... except when she was in his bed and staring passionately into his eyes. This, of course, races through my mind ALL of the time... that she knew what she was doing and kept doing it by choice.

The loving side of me thinks this -

I love her more than anything and would die for her without a second thought. I was so happy when she told me that she felt sick and couldn't stand herself for what she had done. I was so happy to see her cry so hard out of fear of losing me. This told me that she truly did love me and that she knew she had made the biggest mistake of her life and would do anything to make amends.

I haven't gone a day without thinking that as far as this site goes, Undo and I are actually lucky. We are lucky because neither of us left the other or wanted to separate as so many others have experienced. We both have goals that match each others, and that was to spend the rest of our lives together and be happy and stronger and never to let this happen again.

So I do think about it everyday, but I believe my love for her as well as my hope for the future is what keeps me going. I have depression and sometimes I have anxiety attacks. I tell Undo every time so we can see if there is a pattern and somehow try to help me get through it.

She is my shoulder right now and it makes me feel funny to say... my rock. I'm 240lbs of ex-karate man and she makes me feel so safe by being there for me. She let's me cry on her shoulder and comforts me by saying, "I love you."

This is how I get through the day... just by knowing we love each other and are determined to be together forever.

Oh, and by the way, this site and all of you people are also a big reason I can keep going.

I’m a FWW and here is my opinion on the above statement:

An A can’t “just happen”. Feelings can, but not A’s. Affairs are about actions and choices to act a certain way with a person of the opposite sex. There is always wrong/inappropriate actions which constitute an A. For example, if you flirt, hug, kiss or having sex with somebody, you make a willful choice to do those things and react that way. Even if you say something inappropriate to someone, you choose those words... All these actions and choices which constitute and A CAN’T “just happen”.

However, people can accidentally develop romantic feelings and fall in love with someone of the opposite sex if they are not on guard and careful (I know this can happen, it happened to me), but it is still the responsibility of the WS to restrain themselves and not react on those inappropriate feelings. Certainly WS don’t go out and looking for someone to have an A with… I’ve been involved in an inappropriate friendship and fell in love with the FOM… I understand how people can unwittingly form deep, passionate connections before realizing that they've crossed the line from platonic friendship into romantic love. I understand how the development of romantic/inappropriate feelings for someone of the opposite sex can be “accidental”, but as soon as the WS realizes the involvement and/or feelings is wrong and inappropriate, it's still his/her choice to stop the involvement and not let it progress into something more damaging and serious (like a full blown EA and/or PA).

People can't always control their feelings, but they can control their actions...and this is why A's can't “just happen” and why feelings is not an excuse for wrong actions.

HLRomantic, I agree with Aussieswife that your WS does sound very remorseful, but until she doesn't take ownership and FULL responsibility for her wrong choices of the past, the M can't successfully recover. As discussed earlier, your W needs to discover "why" she did it so that she can take pro-active steps and put strong boundaries in place to protect herself from her own weaknesses & vulnerabilities.

Blessings,
Suzet

I would like to know from those of you that have had an A, you opinion on my thoughts as to why she had the A? I’ll list her reasons and some I believe had influence, please provide any comments as to which of these affected you.

My WS:

The OM was a good friend, who supported her at work and moved away. When he returned for a dinner meeting we both realized we where in love, a little wine and it just happened.

My opinion:

- Yes he was a good friend, and the first man other than me that recognized that she is a very talented woman, which meant an awful lot to her.
- They worked on a very stressful project and created a very tight bond.

- Our daughter was married just a few months earlier, We my “my WS & I” married young and have been each others only sexual partner for 26 years; which I believe led her to a midlife crisis wanting to know what she was missing in life.

You add mine to hers and I believe it was the right chemistry?

If you had some similar experience that led to the A, what were they and did you ever have another A?

HLR,

You’ve made it clear that your wife still loved you during the A and I understand your confusion. Undo and I had a similar experience as you. Keep in mind that most A that occur when the two spouses still love each other is usually based on an EN that the WW never knew she needed.

When Undo met her OM it was strictly plutonic and there were other people involved. She told everyone about me and how much she loved me and no one had doubts about our marriage. But when the friendship grew closer with the OM she was shocked to see that he was providing an EN that she didn’t know was missing... recreational companionship and interest in her singing.

This feeling was overwhelming to her and that started the fog. While with the OM she did not think of anything other than wonderful feeling of having her needs met. This is a very powerful feeling and this created a special bond. Only when they would part would she feel guilty about what was happening and she could not understand why she was doing this. The more she saw him and felt the needs being met the heavier the fog became. She now sees that she did not love the OM, she loved the attention to her EN’s.

Remember, an A is like an addiction that can provide a type of high, in this case emotional. Your wife (as well as Undo) said that she never intended for the A to happen and I’m sure she was sincere about that. Do you think someone just wakes up in the morning and says, “I think I’ll become addicted to cocaine today.” No one wants to become a drug addict for obvious reasons but the feeling it can offer is very powerful as well as the destructiveness that comes with it. It’s only after they leave the OM that the high goes away and they realize what they did.

Your job is to help you wife overcome her addiction by showing her how much you love her. You can try to analyze all the “why did you do this to me” and “how could you hurt me” questions you want, but instead ask what they were doing that made her keep going back. That is most likely the answer and the EN you will need to provide.

Also, because she will go through withdrawals, make sure you tell her several times a day how much you love her so that each time it reinforces her will to succeed with her battles.

I have been very supportive of my Wife, but to fulfill some of my needs as to how & why? I have been asking some of theses questions to this group based the information my WS gives. Yes, I know I need to let go, but discussing it with all of you has been very therapeutic!

Thank You All!
Especially Undo & H4F who provide both ends of the affair, you both should be commended for helping people with you understanding. I also want to personally thank Suzet; you’re past post on “I love you, but I'm not in love with you?” and the fog was very helpful.

That’s why I’m asking the question listed in the quote.

If you had some similar experience that led to the A, what were they and did you ever have another A?

HLR,

We are all here for each other. Undo and I are happy to help in any way that we can.

HLR, I’m glad you have found the posts helpful! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Please check my comments underneath.

HRL, like your W, my FOM was also a friend at my workplace. At the time, I experienced him as a good, caring and supporting friend. We used each other as ‘sounding-boards’ and gave each other some emotional support at work. So I can relate with the part where your W said the OM was a good friend, who supported her at her work.

Close opposite sex friendships is a danger and threat to any marriage. In her book ”Not Just Friends”, Shirley Glass says: ''The new infidelity is between people who unwittingly form deep, passionate connections before realizing that they've crossed the line from platonic friendship into romantic love,''. This happened to me and I believe the same was true for your W.

I know I will not allow myself to ever become close friends with a man again except if the person is a friend of both me and my H AND our M, and where both of us can share time with the person. I definitely stay away from any emotional support or friendships with men at my work now… It’s one of the boundaries I’ve put in place for myself to protect myself against my won weaknesses and vulnerabilities. After my betrayal I’m very ‘sensitized’ to A’s - I’ve learned hard lessons from that and I can’t imagine that it will ever happen again. And with my strong boundaries in place I know it will not happen again.


All 3 of them make sense… My comment are below:

Yes he was a good friend, and the first man other than me that recognized that she is a very talented woman, which meant an awful lot to her.

This one is especially true if your W had (or still have) self-esteem issues (or related issues). Compliments and attention from an opposite sex person is very flattering/soothing if someone suffers from a low self-esteem. It fulfills the high EN for admiration. During my friendship with FOM I had unresolved issues (including self-esteem problems) and as a result I have found FOM’s compliments, attention, care etc. extremely flattering and with time I became dependent on it. FOM was much older than me and he helped fulfill the role of an ‘emotionally available’ “father-figure” I never had. I received understanding about this after I’ve entered IC. Similarly, your W needs to figure out (through IC) the weaknesses/vulnerabilities which made her vulnerable to OM’s attention in the first place. It will also give her better self-understanding if she can figure out WHY she have those specific weaknesses/vulnerabilities.

They worked on a very stressful project and created a very tight bond

Yes, as more employees labor longer hours together, close friendships increasingly are taken for granted. And as more women move into professions (once dominated by men), they working closely together with men and as a result there are greater temptations for both sexes. I already discussed the dangers of close opposite sex friendships at work earlier in my post.

Our daughter was married just a few months earlier, We my “my WS & I” married young and have been each others only sexual partner for 26 years; which I believe led her to a midlife crisis wanting to know what she was missing in life.

This make sense, although I don’t know much about midlife crisis on this stage of my life… I do think your W was probably trying to justify her adulterous behavior and trying to find an excuse to continue with it.

Hope this could help,
Suzet

Thank you all,

Suzet that was a very wonderful post, but I'm not fimiliar with IC?

HLR,

IC is Individual Counseling and done by a Professional Counselor/Therapist/Psychologist. Maybe you can ask your pastor or head of your church to give you references to some good and Christian Counselors/Psychologists/Therapists in your immediate environment/town who specializes in infidelity (preferably a women because it's better for clients to receive counselling from same sex therapists).

HLR - It hurts but as one BH to another, you must know why before your M can really progress in terms of intimacy, love and trust. I think that BS's instinctively reach for "why" because we recognize that we need the whole picture, all the pieces of the puzzle, so we 1)know what we are being asked to forgive, 2)know what to watch for in the future (set boundaries), 3)take action on our end to fill in any gaps we are missing as a spouse, 4)heal our own wounds (remember - the BS wounds were inflicted by someone else, the WS wounds were self-inflicted...the fact that a BS is not given a choice in their pain, it is inflicted on them, is a real doozie to "get over").

A lot, maybe all WS's, want the BS to "get over it" or "get past it". Along with that, the WS generally does not want to confront the reasons, details, whatever about their infidelity. So it is tough and painful to get what the BS needs to satisfy the 4 points above. Do not quit until you get what you need...be thoughtful, considerate, timely, compassionate to you FWS AND to YOURSELF!

J

HLR -- Another WW reporting in... (I'd add the "f", because I believe it, but d-day was only 2 weeks ago, and although I've kept to my end of the NC bargain and am learning a lot, I think the "f" should take more time to be earned).

Anyway... as much as I hate to admit it... the A was a choice... what people can get as mad as they want about is that even though it is a sh**y choice to make (and remember, we are talking about spouses who are not thinking right), people make it because they are looking to get their emotional needs met... the problem is that THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND or maybe even believe that those needs can be met in the marriage any longer. I didn't. I was confused, sad, had been through conseling (mc -- got us nowhere), individual counseling, and was still feeling like "is this all there is" to my marriage... if I wasn't so far gone, maybe I would have caught on to the simple elegence of rebuiling love by meeting each other's 5 top emotional needs sooner.

What I am saying is I had an affair. Things happended, I basically got caught. What my husband and at the time, myself couldn't understand was "why"? That's when I revisited the His Needs Her Needs and this site... All of a sudden things started falling into place.... I had an affair with someone who met some of my most important needs. But fortunately, I picked someone who only met them somewhat, and my husband met many many others.

Where we are now? I am committed to the NC phase... the threat of further exposure or a plan b is enough to keep me in line in my weakest moments (sorry, but that is true... it does feel like an addiction), and the framework of looking at and working to meet each others top 5 emotional needs (with help from a new mc) gives me hope that a) I can have what I want in this marriage and b) I can give my husband what he wants and be worthy of his love...

So for all those who say take a what a WW says with a grain of salt, yeah, do that... but I'd say if she is working the program WITH YOU... and understands how the spark slipped away from your marriage to begin with (and thus what to do if she feels it happening again), you could be on the right path.

For what its worth.

OK, But how long before she's out of the fog and back to reality...If you had an A, how long before you turned your life around? What milestones should I be looking for?

I know my wife suffers from what has happened with her A but to be honest, I think she should try to be more comforting and understanding of my point of view?

My biggest thing is TOTAL HONESTY…and she says she can’t do that!

What was the turning point for you to make a new commitment to your spouse?