I'm not ready to date yet, but a divorced friend of mine is further ahead on the path and asks for relationship advice. I feel totally unqualified given the failed M, but it is helpful to listen, offer support and think about what I would do in the same situation.

Here's the latest question... she's in her early 30s, dating someone for several weeks and they seemed to have chemistry and really liked one another, they went out of town together for a weekend and had SF. She returned home and left a polite message (home safe, call you later) and thought he would call her, but he hasn't. And she hasn't called him.

In my book, this is unacceptable on his part and he apparently isn't that interested in her, but her mother is telling her to give him more time. (??) It's been about 7 years since I've been in the dating game, so maybe I'm being too harsh, or maybe I'm just wounded from my own experience, but it seems that after a weekend like that the guy should call even if she left a message saying she would call again later. Thoughts? (I'm dreading the dating scene - just more heartache.)

How long ago was this exactly?

If it's been days and he hasn't called back, I would most definitely say dump him because that's beyond creepy.

Thanks MOS,

This happened this past weekend and we discussed it over lunch today. I think he should call no later than Tuesday even if she said "call you later" at the end of her voicemail. Her mother thinks that she should be more understanding and give him at least 2 weeks to call back. (??!) I don't understand that one. My friend's viewpoint is that she said she would call again, so she should do so, but I think he should call because they had SF and she already left a message.

Am I the overly-conservative one here? Any opinions from the guys? I feel way too old to try to figure out the rules of dating again. thanks...

In all honesty, I'd give the guy 24 hours max, no matter who said what about calling whom. If there weren't an attentive and caring phone call by then I'd dump him.

The only excuse I'd accept beyond that is if he were actually unconcious in the hospital the entire time. Even with a family emergency, there's no reason for him not to have called and left some kind of message.

Butterscotch7,

I think your friend should dump this guy and be more careful in the future.

I personally do not think it is a good idea for any woman to go away on weekend trips with someone they have been dating for a few weeks. I might be old fashion, but he should be the one calling her to make sure she got home safe. Sounds to me he got what he wanted and is moving on to his next victim.

Just my opinion.

Not enough information to make a judgement.

How often would they talk to each other before SF? Who initiated the calls?

Butterscotch, I think we have the same book. Your friend just spent the weekend with this man and gave him her body. He made love to her and the latest he should have waited to call her was later that same evening after she'd left him the "home safely message." This is a little old fashioned idea called respect. He sent a clear message to her that he really cares nothing about anything but what she has between her legs.

There is nothing in the world wrong with a couple deciding that all they want from a relationship is SF. It helps to be on the same page at the outset so that there are no misunderstandings.

I'm with itsallaboutme on this. Dump this using jerk and move on. I also agree about weekend trips. Take them only when you are in a committed relationship that is going somewhere or with friends when there is an up front understanding that there will be no sex involved.

Ladies, I know you don't want to believe this, but you just have to accept it. I'm a man and I hear men talk every day. A lot of them, especially the ones in their 20s and early 30s are only interested in sex. This is fine as long as they are up front about it. But more often than not, they aren't and they lie through their teeth to get their way. What is worse is that an frightening number of these young men are misogynistic and have absolutely no respect for women. This is a new phenomenon that I only started seeing a few years ago. I think it's because they are spending too much time looking at internet porn, which not only objectifies women, but has really become incredibly sick and twisted.

I know I'm going to catch H E double toothpicks for this, but you all are too funny.

Why not just tell her to go to his house and demand from him that he validate her emotional need for communication every 23.5 hours. Have her stand outside his window and hold her breath until he talks to her.

Doesn't dumping a guy just because he doesn't call within 24/48/72 hours after she told him she would call him seem a bit rash and juvenile. How old are they, 14? How is it any better than him dumping her if she didn't meet his SF need whenever and wherever he wanted it?

Relationships are all about communication and if she doesn't let him know that she wants more of it particularly after SF, the the onus is on her. All guys can be boors sometimes, that's why we need women.

TBG, I would give you the devil about this, but he just spent the weekend making love to this woman. She gave him a very, very special gift, and he doesn't have the manhood required to RESPECT her or her gift. Having given him this gift, what more does she need to do to convince him she wants more. She DID call him and asked him to return her call, which he so far has failed to do. Incredible.

14? No, I'm old school and I would NEVER do this to a woman.

Sorry, but he's a looser -- he;s the one behaving like a 14 year old. Try to put yourself in a woman's mind while considering this. You're thinging like a man -- nothing wrowng with this, but you need to try to see this issue from a woman's perspective.

I already know this. (I'm an engineer and I hear a lot more of men talk than most women ever do.) I don't really think it is completely "new", but I do know there are a lot of younger men out there suffering from brainrot due to chasing internet porn. And as you say, it breeds some really ugly misogyny. It's a good point to post on this dating board.

I completely agree with those who said the weekend away and/or having sex with this guy so soon were both risky ideas. It's certainly something I would never do. However, there are a lot of people who have much more casual sex relationships than I do, and in those cases, there's still good manners. Even assuming that this is just a casual fling relationship, which seems likely, any sane and reasonable person can figure out that treating your partner well and attentively after the encounter is warranted if you want the relationship to continue. This guy either:

1. doesn't care, in which case it's time to toss him, or
2. is too dumb/boorish/socially backward to figure it out, in which case it's time to toss him

The "well I'm just a boorish guy sometimes and I'm not good at this romance thing" argument cracks me up, and I think any guy who uses it should be laughed right out the door. If you're not going to bother to be good at something, you're not worth being asked to participate.

Thank you for the input - I especially appreciate hearing the male vs. female viewpoint.

Here's the new issue: he left her a reply text message (not a phone message, a text message) saying hi and telling her to call him tomorrow night. Again, I think this is a bit rude given what happened this weekend and I think she should NOT call him. Let him sit for a few days until he figures out that he has to make the effort to dial the phone. Geesh! Am I being too harsh? Other opinions?

Here's my general take on things ...
1. She let things move too fast - a mistake, but not fatal if she wants to continue the relatioship, so long as she handles things better going forward.
2. She should not call him and wait for him to call her. If/when he does call, she should politely communicate her needs/hurt and then see how he reacts.
3. As a woman, I have to say that I would be hurt and this relationship would be hanging by a thread - he would have to show me a lot of respect and caring for things to continue.

Anyway, thoughts on the above? Maybe I would be too demanding in today's dating climate - and I always thought I was low maintenance. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

IMHO your friend should tell Mr. Wonderful to KICK ROCKS.... It sure doesn't sound like he treasured the gift that he received. Rather it sounds like it is what it was, a BOOTY CALL and I'm quite sure if she offered him the cookies again, he'd bite. Now if that's what your friend wants, GAME ON, but if she's looking for a relationship she needs to keep looking, only this time keeping her knees together until she's in a committed relationship.....

butterscotch,

If your friend has been dating for several *weeks* (and that I would take to mean more than 3) then this guy should have had the decency to call your friend.He can push buttons on his phone to send a text but not actually SPEAK to her? I find that offensive after the weekend they had.I personally do not think you can take it any other way than he doesn't really care for her.Could be wrong but based on what was said,this guy needs to read up on Emily Post.Manners have just about evaporated for most people,in my experience.Not just in dating either.We have all this technology supposedly to bring us closer but it is just driving us apart and causing more insensitivity and coldness,IMO.

CheckUrHeart,

I totally agree with you on the porn issue.I have long said that I wish porn would just evaporate too but there are too many slimes making money off this billion dollar industry.I think it is disgusting and I also feel that it has wreaked havoc on our marriages and families.It's so ubiquitous and easily available and does make things worse for women in the way some men view us.I'm am also SO thoroughly sick of the image perpetuated in magazines and movies.

I can't walk down the street without being hassled or eyeballed and it scares me.I may be 39 but I look 29 and am very attractive.Not tooting my own horn here but it's just the way I look that seems to attract the attention of losers and wolves.I picture them imagining me as some of the women on the porn sites and I find it utterly repulsive.I have never felt such an...insecurity? I guess about simple things like walking down a street alone.What else explains the fascination with someone like Pamela Anderson who,to me is complete joke? I don't understand the attraction.Maybe you know since you claim to work with men and discuss things with them.I believe porn sites to be so hyper sexualized(obviously) that some men expect us to be that way all the time or they have a false sense of reality when it comes how to treat a REAL woman.This would be a great new topic if you care to start one with me.I have 2 daughters that I am concerned about in their future and it's a subject that I always freely discuss with anyone.I have strong feelings about it.

O

Me? I wouldn't let someone get away with that.
I'd call them until I actually spoke to them, chit chat and wait to hear some lame excuse about the not-calling-business, determine whether I believe it to be valid or not, if not give them a good ole piece of my mind. Then be done with it. If they have a good reason, let them know how I felt and give them another chance.

I don't sit around waiting and wondering.

I still think you guys are funny...

If you're still looking for opinions, here is what I think she should do.

Give it a couple of days. If he doesn't call her, have her call him and explain how he hurt her feelings by not calling her. If she really cares for him, then she should let him know when there is a problem with his behavior and then give him the opportunity to correct it. [edit: Yeah, what Lexxy said]

As much as women would like us to, men can't read women's minds. And, not everybody have the same values or sense of decency. Common sense is not always common. When it comes to relationships it is unreasonable to expect for someone to automatically know what the other person wants. Communicate, communicate, communicate.

The whole "don't call him", "dump him if he doesn't call" is so High School. Communication is key, IMVHO.

Ok, I can't help it on this one.....

They had sex. Any man past his teen years (and most before then) know that that puts the relationship on a whole new level for most women. That most women are not casual about sex. And not calling afterwards.... that's what is so High School. Yes, give him a couple of days. But after that.... if he needs something that basic explained to him, I would really be cautious. To me, that would be a big warning sign that the guy is at best not very communicative or understanding of how relationships should work. And at worst, he the kind of slime that does that sort of thing.

Sheesh, most guys know enough to call after just a regular DATE if they ever want to see the woman again, let alone after sex!!!

Has anyone read the book..."He's just not that into you?" by Greg Behrendt and Liz Tuccillo?? All women need to read this book...it is awesome!!! I first heard about it when they were on Oprah and I ran out and bought it and read it in two days. Every womans bible to men!! When they don't call they just aren't that into you...simple as that!!! here's a link to the book on oprahs website...
http://www.oprah.com/tows/booksseen/200409/tows_book_20040922_behrendttruccillo.jhtml (if it isn't alright to post this link i'm sorry and please delete)

Hugs
Alluring

It is very, very plain that this woman hooked up with a player. His lame text message proves it. He wants HER tor chase HIM. He's manipulating her. This is what players do. LostHusband is right. This was nothing more than a booty call. Learn by the mistake and move on.

Lexxxy, what you suggest is just playing a game and you don't play games, especially with, uh, players -- they are masters and they will beat you at it.

TBG, you usually are right on target with things, but you are so wrong on this one. I don't think you know what a player is and how they operate. This is not a case of two people not communicating effectively. Rather it is one where a man used a woman for sex and and is now crewing around with her. That is what is "so high school."

At this juncture, if he ever does call her, all she needs to say is "I don't care to see you any more. Please don't call me again." I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut he'll just shrug and move to the next number on his list.

CheckUrHeart,

You are so right!

This guy goes away on a weekend trip and had sex with this woman, then he doesn't call her but text message her? What a coward! That action is so High Schoolish. I expect better from a man who is in his late 30's and older. If he is clueless about consideration and respect, then he is just not worth it.

Wrong. Wasting time on some dork without reasonable values, sense of decency, or common sense is so High School. It's waaaaay time to be past that. If he's not playing nicely with the grownups, he gets dumped, and that's his problem for not bothering to grow up.