Can someone respond to my question...at least about unfaithfulness, infidelity...or whatever...
A lot have read my thread, but only a few have responded, and they have been regarding my second
question.

I really want to know if the fact that my H spent 8 freakin years jacking off in "I might get caught"
places for the arousal of it all is considered infidelity, unfaithfulness. As far as I know there has not
been an actual person, I can't say woman, because there is question to his preference, and he has been such
a liar about everything, but I sure feel betrayed. I am hurt that he chose this over me. He kept telling me
I was unatractive to him, and then it is all this? I can't compete with that kind of "rush" he gets. Believe
me, I've tried. I feel as though he has had an afair with his hand or self or whatever you want to call it.
Not to mention the "only once" time with porn on the internet. (which I monitored afterward)

He wants me to believe, I have no scriptural grounds to divorce him..."I was not unfaithful." I say he was not faithful either...
So where does that leave me?

Welcome to marriage builders.

"He also told me that "only ONCE" was he tempted to act
sexually with our son when he was about 2. (He is now 6) He vehemently denies being ever
tempted in that way again. It was just "ONCE."

Please get some counseling. This is a HUGE red flag.

Forget about scriptural grounds. Something is just not right here. Don't continue to put up with this kind of behavior.

And please PROTECT yourself IF the situation arises...which it doesn't sound like it will. You don't deserve to be exposed to whatever he's been messing in...and get help, like Believer said. It's a must!

Undisclosed,

What is a legal definition for infidelity varies with geography. Most here at Marriage Builders would agree that if the behavior necessitates hiding, lying or secrecy, then likely it is infidelity or at the very least undesirable behavior in a spouse. According to scripture, masturbation is not infidelity, but it is a sin.

Also, according to scripture (sorry, but I am not a new testament scholar, assuming you are Christian - There are certainly grounds according to OT.) I believe a wife has grounds to divorce her husband for refusing sex. See Corinthians 7:1-7... Christians, you will know better than Miss Sally...

And undisclosed? Regardless of what is written above, ARK's statement pretty much summed up where you are at. You are one of the lucky few who have been warned. Your husband has a few sexual problems. He has admitted to you that he has had inappropriate sexual desire for your son. I agree with ARK and am Glad Glad Glad you and your children are out of that house and SAFE.

We are here for you,
Sally

well, I just spent the past several hours with the soon to be XH supervising his visit with the boys. I am drained.

Anyway, Yes we are in counseling. I have been for several years, my H and I have done the marriage counseling thing 5 times in 8 years. Now he is in IC for the 2nd time. My son is in therapy. I know how crazy a thing like this is, I just wanted some feedback from others as to whether it was possible to have a thought like this "once." Most of the professionals in the field I know do not think so, but the hurt part of me wanted to hear from "non-professionals", or those that might have recovered from a similar thing.

I am grateful for the knowledge. God has been very faithful to me in this whole process. But it is still very hard. This was a situation, I thought I would never have to deal with, and I thought my children were safe with him. He still thinks they are safe, and he is constantly trying to sway me when I am with him. Right now, there is NO ONE else to supervise the visits, and so I have to do it. I have not even had time to think about or process the effect of his rejection of me, not to mention the depression, anxiety, and stress, but my older son has ADHD, severely so, and there are issues there, and on top of that I have fibromyalgia and an undiagnosed neuromuscular disorder, and I am just tired.

Sorry to whine...I will pull it together after I can get some rest this afternoon. Anyway, thanks for your concerns.

I think that you need to ask your pastor. I believe this borders on abuse of your children. If you can't ask your pastor find another pastor you can ask. I don't believe God wants us to place our children in harms way. Of course he can help change your husband with serious counseling. Is there any reason why you have to divorce right now?

Having seen the results of sexual abuse up close and very personal, I do not believe there is any chance that this was a one-time thought. My sister's now-adopted children molested my two oldest, then 2 & 4, which was how we found out that the other 3 were being molested and got them taken away from their mother.

Even now, 4 years later, we have only been able to slightly relax our guard from how it was at first. For a good 2 years or so we could not even give any of them literally 3 consecutive seconds unsupervised with each other or sexual acting out would be occuring. Instantly! Obsessively. You would be amazed at how little time it takes for something to happen.

Even now I still have to watch them very closely, although nothing has occurred for quite some time. My sister must still remain on high alert, as hers still act out from time to time.

My point is that this becomes a brain fever, something that rages red and almost obscures the vision with its power. You can very safely bet that your husband has been tormented by this, not just tempted. Thank you for removing your children from that.

Why seek a Christian reason to give your husband who has not treated you his wife in any way shape or form that the bible calls Christians to treat their wives...

for him to play a "I need a Christian reason to justify you divorcing me" card...is laughable at best...but more poignantly hypocritical in the extreme...

He has not loved you as Christ loves the church
not in words
not in actions....

why involve yourself within a tango of theology when there has been none yet in your marriage???????

you need to find a support group of women to support you..

why engage in this debate..when there is no basis for a Christian marraige in the first place...

ARK

Regarding your question about infidelity, for me personally I would probably take a very conservative approach: I would definitely divorce for the sake of the children's safety, but if I had any doubt in my heart about 'biblical grounds' I would simply remain single until/unless I found out about infidelity. (Based on verses such as 1 Corinthians 7:11.)

However, for me also, this type of behavior would constitute infidelity.

Like ark, I am not trying to start a debate, but only to express my own fairly conservative opinion.

I mean why debate theology with a man that never treated his marriage as a Christian marriage...but now when its getting close to serious...he wants to play the Christian victim card...

ARK

whattagirl:
I think so. My H has over the entire 8 years pretty much refused to let
God make any changes in him. His motto is "God will meet my needs" as opposed
to mine being, "I can do all things through Christ." He is very pious, and
passive aggressive. Resistant to the end. He was in an accountability
group with 3 other men for 1 1/2 years. According to them, and me, he did not
follow there advice, instruction etc..once. He just whined, and said that he
would try. They went throught the stages of confrontation, and intervention etc,
and he still resisted. Ultimately,he did this same thing in our attempts at marriage
counseling. Anything he did try in counseling, he tried for maybe a week...then stopped.
In addition, when asked point blank about his sexual issues over the eight years,
he has flat out denied one thing, but given a hint of another...and then the next time
admiting to something, but still denying another, and it goes on, and on, over 8 years.
And even this far into the process, all he say's is, "Have you forgiven me yet?"
He wants to have his pity party, and get whatever sympathy he can by saying that he does
not want a divorce. But he does not want to "work a program." He admitted to not being in love
with me, but with the idea of "us and marriage." That is what he cares about.
And because he is so untrustworthy, and unwilling, I do not believe he will let
God make the changes in him. It is too much work for him, and I can not know
if he has or will ever hurt my children sexually.

not so you neak:
Wow...I worry about that, b/c my H was abused by his brother, and if something has happened to
my older son, I worry about he and my younger son. I do keep a close eye on them, but more so
b/c of the older's ADHD and anger issues... He has been impulsive and aggrssive with the younger twice, but
that is too much.

Ark: you are right. He is very hypocritical. And the fact that he has not
provided housing, food, clothing etc... he is worse than the infadel... to quote a
scripture. But he is playing the part of a victim, but does not want to change.

And on a theological note, and debated by many, the translation of the word "porniea" used in the sermon on the mount,
where Jesus was making clarifications, that word is translated to mean illicit sexual behaviors" (which I personally
think is what they are.)

I really appreciate all your support.