I could not remember whether you said that you had an appointment with SH. I know you wanted your wife to call. If you did talk with SH, what did he say about your prospects for R if your wife would not admit to the A or to discuss it in the face of obvious evidence? Please let me know since we are in the same situation.

The soonest I could schedule an "appointment" was for Thursday. I originally schedule a time for tomorrow, but I have a meeting at work that I can't get out of.

My wife is backpeddling on calling SH. I'm not sure why. I can only guess that she doesn't really want to stay in the marriage. She'll stay, but only if I'm willing to do everything she wants. No talking about the affair, no more snooping, no job change or complaining about the her working with the OM.

Seriously, I really don't know why I feel the need to talk to SH again or what I expect him to be able to do that 3 other counselors and myself have been unable to do with my WW.

It's over Bob, I'm grabbing at some straws, but I think the writing is on the wall, I'm just having trouble reading it right now (or maybe I just don't want to).

I'll post back to you as soon as I get off the phone Thursday. I'm schedule to talk to him at 9 am eastern time.

I hope your situation isn't as bad as mine. My wife is now saying that she's miserable and can't see any way for our marriage to work, but she's also scared that this will be the worst mistake of her life. Oohhh the art of sitting on the fence. She has it down to a science.

Grove,
Your WW is doing exactly the same stuff that she has apparently always done in your marriage.

WW goes out and does whatever she pleases, up to and including having an affair.

Grove finds out about (whatever it is) and tries to talk to her about it.

WW gets nasty and bullies Grove.

Grove backs down and gives up.

WW goes right back to doing whatever she pleases, satisfied that she can handle Grove any day of the week.

So, let's see -- you asked her to stop seeing OM, she got nasty and bullied you, and you immediately backed down and gave up.

Why are you surprised when she does the exact same thing again? What reason does she have to change her behavior? What have YOU done that is different?
Mulan

Mulan,

I've missed you. Nothing's changed, except I have held to my boundaries. I told my wife that working with the OM was unacceptable, she agreed the first month after d-day, but has since decided she didn't want to find another job.

I realize that we can't recover as long as the OM is in the picture. I've went to the lawyers, I've given her the papers and I'm now waiting for her to either take them to her attorney or tell me there fine and to go forward.

Am I still open to saving the marriage, absolutely, but I will not go back to being a doormat. While it is tempting, due to the fact that I can at least be in my daughter's life daily, it would be a miserable existance.

Hey Grove,
The way I see it, even your agreeing to giving her an easy divorce is really nothing more than caving in to her again. She gets everything she wants, including you still in her corner, *and* she gets to tell everyone this was YOUR fault, that YOU wanted the divorce and she has NO idea why!

Don't think that isn't exactly what she'll do.

Again, why not Plan B? Why divorce when Plan B will force the ball into HER court? I think that on some level you are scared to death of what she will do, and she knows it. That's why she treats you the way she does. She knows you will never stand up to her.

Plan B would be standing up to her.

To recap a recent post on boundaries and Plan A:

Plan A is where you STATE your boundaries, which you have already done (good!)

Plan B is where you ENFORCE your boundaries, by refusing to interact with the WS and waiting to see if the W or H will come back home.

Still trying to figure out why you are just waiting for HER to fix everything and then immediately giving up again when she, of course, is not going to fix anything. She is a WS. They never lift a finger to fix a thing. Only a W or H will do that.

Plan B is the best chance you have to get your W back, but it takes one ****** of a backbone. Now, she will get VICIOUS when she sees that her normal bullying tactics aren't working any more, but if you have the guts (and other body parts) to refuse to let her bully you anymore you just might get your W back.

You will never get her back by waiting and hoping that SHE will fix things and then helplessly rolling over when she doesn't.

Stop letting her scare you. She and OM are counting on it. She knows she doesn't stand a chance without your fear.
Mulan

PS - gee, all I did was type "h e l l" of a backbone, and I got censored! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I had a great conversation with SH. No more pushing her to go along with "my" plan. If she isn't on the same plan, than I'm just acting like her father and pushing her to do what I want, or being her father. I'm being simplistic, but for now I have hope again.

No more exposure, no plan b, no more talking about divorce or the affair, we're not there yet. It's like laying in the emergency room bleeding out (our marriage) and you have a broken leg (the affair). We'll get to the broken, but first we have to stop the bleeding.

Bob, I'll start a new post to talk to you more.

So -- SH told you to just completely back down and give in to whatever she wants, and hope this will make her want to be married to you???

This sounds exactly like what you have been trying to do anyway . . . and how's that been workin' for ya?
Mulan

I don't think he told me to "back down". He simply said that right now "we" don't have a plan. I do, but she hasn't decided to go along with the plan. My conversations to her are pushing her away and making her feel like I am her "father". Right now, my wife doesn't believe that we can have a decent marriage again, she doesn't see any upside to staying together. I agree with the view of things right now. I've been so busy trying to get her to see and do things "my" way (the mb way), that I haven't thought of how she is viewing this. I have to make her see that we can have a better marriage and that we can get through this.

I think he asked how my present behavior has been working for me. It hasn't. She hasn't filed for divorce, she hasn't done anything really. The goal is to get her to agree to a plan to save the marriage.

For now, the affair isn't going on, or at least it doesn't exist the way it did. Both parties are probably giving each other some space and expect that they can resume a friendly relationship at work. The goal is to "stop the bleeding", than work on the other issues.

Mulan, I know you've been there for me since the beginning and you probably have a little better insight to this whole mess than Steve got in an hour conversation, but I do remember you telling me in the beginning that I needed to lay of the affair talk and stop the Lover Busters. I don't think I've done a very good job of that. Partly because there was always something new to come up, contact with the OM, her friend calling the OM, the STD, and now the job situation. Through all this, I am still reasonably committed to providing my daughter with a stable home with both her mother and her father.