Forgive me while I talk out loud for a bit...

So I text my WH "why do you want to take me to hawaii?"

His response?

OK, then I will take my mother. ? ? ? ? ?

I don't know why he answers me like this. I ask him if he wants to stay married to me....he says "have I mentioned that?" I say, It's a yes or no question.

I ask him if he's given up (after he blames and blames and woe is me...) he says "Have I said that?"

I ask him, "do you want me to switch churches?" he says "Did I say I wanted you to switch churches?

So, me being the codependent I am guessing what he may be thinking and then because its true I don't know what he's thinking so I ask, and him being in the fog..he cannot answer.

Finally, the A is really not the thing here. its a symptom of the thing. He's just as screwed up and wounded as I am.

2x4's welcome please. I'm working on everything but i'm in over my head. you can check this thread....

Do I stink?

I think maybe i should be saying "If you want to stay married to me, and you want me to trust you, what are you willing to do to prove it to me?"

Is that what I say? I'm so glad I don't have to think of it all at once. I have a bit of time to figure it out

those types of statements immediately put him or most people on the defensive....

you may be better served saying something like...

what about trying a different route...

things that feed his ego..
things that are positive...

how you believe that he can be such a great protector..and how safe you feel when he acts in ways that show his protection for your feelings...

how you admire any qualities...and how proud it makes you to be his wife...

that you believe there are so many wonderful small things he can do that show what a person who acts as their wifes protector does....

can you see it..
can you see how immediately your original statement will just make him defensive...

ARK

whattagirl, I agree with Ark. Those are loaded rhetorical questions that put him on the defensive. quit asking him vague questions in order to avoid stating what you need to say.

I get the sense that you spend alot of time and energy trying to frame your words instead of getting your TRUE point across. Why not set that fear aside and just be straightforward? I think that would help your communication more than anything. Your questions would give me the impression that you are either a) playing a cat and mouse game or b) too chicken to get to the point. Both of which are obstacles to good communication.

Ark: forgive me, please don't get sick of me but I don't completely know how to apply these statements. To me they seem manipulative as I would say them if I want something. I try to praise him all the time because he's got a lot of good qualities.

Melody: I can see how some may be perhaps percieved as a loaded question, but I was asking exactly what i wanted to know. Like the church one? He seemed uncomfortable with me returning to our old church so I asked him if he wanted me to switch. I don't see that is a loaded question. I am usually very direct. If he asked me those questions, I would answer directly.

I honestly do not see completely what you see and that is very confusing to me. As all I knew that was true is no longer true, and all I trusted I can no longer trust including myself and also him (except God).

Here's an example of a benign conversation: We are planning a vacay to Hawaii..I called my sister to ask what she liked about Hawaii as her Dh has relatives who live there so they go a lot. I asked her if she liked Kauai which is what we were planning on visiting. I related her words exactly to my WH which were "Sis said she liked Maui better than Kauai because Maui still has enough natural things and enough things to do. they don't roll up the streets at 5PM" He said to me, "so now you want to go to Maui?" which is not what I said at all. I told him then, no I'm telling you that Sis likes Maui, and this is why, maybe we should check into it.

Later that night, I asked him when I said "this (what my sis said)" did you think I was saying "that (I wanted to go to maui)" he said YES. He also said he always assumes people are implying other things rather than the thing they say. Now, here's the thing. If he believes people are implying when talking won't he always be trying to interpret what they are really saying? and will he be implying as well when he is talking?

Melody, I usually try to be direct. I try not to beat around the bush, and if I'm afraid of something I just won't say it, and if I'm assuming I will try to verify because assuming is usually dangerous (thus the questions). And if I'm upset when talking I have a hard time because I try to turn the You Did into I Feel. and not fling the crap.

So if you will please hang with me, if I'm in denial, I haven't gotten it yet. More comments are welcome. I am not going to give up. Even if he and I don't make it I want to be a whole person.

whatagirl...

I understand you have taken a long hard look at your own patterns in the way you two have related to eachother for a long time....

I understand that you have done well in effectively identifying issues within yourself....and that you are making changes and that you have made changes...

what it sounds like now is that you are overcome with impatience....

that in your head it is all elementary to you...and you expect it to be so for him......

and that it frustrates you when he doesn't respond to your changes
make changes himself
and fix things like you have and are fixing things....

i think you really need to stop and think before you let ANYTHING out of your mouth....

lets just break this post down...

and know it's only my opinion. so it may be worth what it costs you...nothing.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but that's OK cause it's only one persons opinion..and i accept onus that I may be way off....

here's some suggestions of communcation changes to think about...

So I text my WH "why do you want to take me to hawaii?"

1. what is whatagirls point in asking this...

because it may put him on the defense.....

2. Is he at work when you do this...he probably already inerperts this as a loaded question.....
thinking OH GOD ...what is the answer that whatagirl wants to hear....

because his goal is most likely to come home from work and have a wife that is happy to see him...
and if he gives the 'wrong' answer she's gonna be pissed...

also
it is my opinion that both spouses should try to avoid heavy deep questions while one or the other is at work..or off somewhere...

it rarely works out that the issue can be given the time and thought needed.....
it usally fails and frustrates both parties....

one of my personal "rules" ..
is that I don't contact my husband while he is at work and lay heavy relationship issues on him....I wait till he and I can discuss....

it has served me well....BECAUSE I have tested this theory by trying to do the opposite...and the result are usually ALWAYS unsatisfactory....

I ask him if he wants to stay married to me....he says "have I mentioned that?" I say, It's a yes or no question.

where is the fire that this discussion occurs via text messaging....
It's not a yes or no question for anyone....
and certainly not one that can be texted...

who can give honest thought...response ...and energy that this type of communication deserves while not together...

it is an automatic defensive knee jerk reaction every time...which is what you got from him in the form of humor...

should I take my mother....that's kind of a funny response...
atleast he didn't rise to the bait...

YOUR goal is effective communication...
effective communication requires time and attention not loaded text messages...

you are going to push your husband out the door.....

you need to calm down
you need to accept that learning good communication takes time...
you need to learn to create the environment in which both parties feel safe to explore emotions and feelings....
you need not to have on your daily agenda the NEED to fix this and adress this 'issue' NOW..this MOMENT...


I think maybe i should be saying "If you want to stay married to me, and you want me to trust you, what are you willing to do to prove it to me?"

If you keep asking him this he's going to walk away...

have you read THE PROPER CARE AND FEEDING OF HUSBANDS...

ARK

hmmmm ~

What I am reading here is a verbal power/control struggle between both of you.

I think your questions border on selfish demands - and are attempts to control. Backing your husband into a corner and demanding yes or no answers is certainly a selfish demand.

You say you are co-dependent.

Codependents are truely masters at verbal manipulation and power plays under the guise of doormathood.

Maybe your husband reads things into what you say because you've trained him to do so?

Stop asking why. Why is a control word.

Mean what you say, say what you mean, and don't say it mean.

whattagirl,I agree very much with BR. I sense an agenda in your questions, and so does he. This is why he gets so defensive.