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Joined: Aug 2005
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chivers Offline OP
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I am new to posting - but have been reading the posts since my husband told me on May 8th that he had 'met someone else'.

He took a new job June 2004 - I moved to be with him and start a new job in December 2004. Obviously new home, new town and new job was stressful. I noticed that we were not communicating too well in about February, and gradually got worse until he told me. Usual story - colleague at work - started her job at same time and got WS involved in an issue relating to her being bullied by her boss. I have tried to adopt plan A - but I am not as good as I could be at it. He is adamant that he has met someone who will make him happy. The OW partner has been in contact with me - and wants her to reconsider and recommit to him. My WS is distressed a lot of the time and is indicates that he is so sorry and is 'worried about leaving me on my own'. Despite this he has not wanted to work on our marriage as he sees this person as something amazing. I have asked him to stop all contact with her - but he sees her all the time at work and meets her on occasions outside of work. I have read everything on Plan A. I remain committed to my marriage - reaffirm my love for him and try to remain positive. I do have periods of utter despair - and usually this happens when he becomes upset and the reality of the situation hits. I live in the UK and have been unable to find anything like this site. All the Plan A strategies seem to have no effect at all. When we are together doing things together - you would never know - as we really enjoy our times together. But I know that she is lurking in the background promising much and he seems to think that this is the 'one'. She has described meeting him as her soul mate. I think it remains an EA - but not sure.


Me (BS) 46 - moved in December 2004 to be with WH - no real support network to call on WH 44 - moved to new job in June 2004 - 200 miles from home OW 43 - Head of HR in same workplace - but met soulmate so it does not matter about work issues D Day May 2005 - Plan A (with OWH in Plan A too)until December 2005. Plan B - did OK until lapse at end of Oct 2006. WH and I met in 1983, friends until 1989 when started our relationship - moved in together in 1992, and married in 2001.
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I am a recovering WH and the comments I make are from that perspective, so for what it’s worth here goes.

I was in an identical situation to your husband. The affair became physical within a month of us acknowledging the feelings we felt so my guess would be it’s physical. Sorry, but just trying to give you the best possible position to fight from – the truth.

Now here’s another issue. This OW certainly has the potential to make your husband happy, but that’s true of thousands of women in the world so don’t even worry about that. A marriage always exists in a world where either partner could be “happy” with someone else buts that’s no excuse for dumping the other person and moving on. That’s what empty-head Hollywood couples do but that’s another story.

Your husband does love you despite what he says or does right now but he also loves this new woman because she is meeting needs that you didn’t. But again don’t worry about that. One of the needs she meets which you couldn’t possibly meet is novelty and the thrill of the chase. Woman can only ever meet that need in men for the first year at most, before it just naturally dwindles so don’t feel any pressure to compete on that level. You can’t and within a year she won’t be able to either.

So why is she so attractive to your husband? Because she’s new and different and there’s no rules, and he doesn’t have to be responsible and its like a James Bond movie, all intrigue and sexual tension and undercover. And sadly it’s probably sex, new and exciting, like it was with you when you first got together. Which it was, no matter what he says now.

So leave all that comparison stuff to one side because you can’t win on that level. Marriage isn’t about performing like a trained seal to keep fickle idiot husbands happy and at home. It’s about a long term, stable, partnership that creates long term, stable families and society. And it’s also about long term support, care and love, which strangely enough is what you both need each other for right now. Your husband is sick, he is quite probably addicted, and he is about to throw away his wife, family, career, self respect, values, long term happiness and satisfaction to be James Bond for a few months.

The distress he feels is his own realization of that. He wants to keep both of you. This is never about choosing one or the other - it’s about keeping both of you. He will do whatever he can to keep both of you. That is the absolute guiding principle of his life right now –keep both! So once you know that you can respond appropriately.

Tell him that you know he would like to keep both of you but you have too much integrity to allow that to happen. You have honored you commitment to him and you expect the same from him, otherwise there is no marriage to save. Tell him you absolutely will not allow him to hurt you and insult you any more and he must choose who he will be with but your terms are absolutely no contact, at all, ever with the OW ever again. That’s not negotiable in any way. Those are your terms. Everything else is negotiable. You will work on the marriage, lose weight, gain weight, play soccer, stop playing soccer, talk more, talk less, whatever is necessary to fix any problems you both may have but she has to go once and for all. Tell him you realize that this is a difficult decision for him and you respect his right to choose. Tell him he can take some time to decide and while you wait for his decision you will be at your mother’s or sister’s or whatever. But make it clear that there are immediate negative consequences for his behaviour and they start right now. You’re not leaving him but you are not prepared to live in the same house while he hurts insults and disrespects you so brutally and you must take steps to protect yourself and the children (if any) from his foolish, destructive behaviour. Tough but fair.

Now he will flip out at this. He will get angry or sad or panicky or run away or do all sorts of crazy things. He will beg you to stay or throw something at you or anything in between. But that’s fine. Here what he heard you say-“You have to grow up now and stop being James Bond. Its time to be a big boy and stop living just to please yourself and cruelly abusing your wife and your OW. (Who, by the way, is also a big loser in this game he’s playing. She is sadly getting her reward for doing this too).

This will shock him and frighten him because he thought he was playing a role in cool movie with two women chasing him and he’s man enough to keep them happy. Now you’ve shattered his dream and called him on it. He may run immediately to the other woman but that’s OK too. Life with her, even on a temporary basis, will be horrible. They will pretend for a while that it’s great but it not and within a short while he will realize what he’s lost and what he’s gained. He will come back to you and try and negotiate on the no contact rule. He will want to keep both of you remember because that’s what he really wants. So you just refuse to allow that o happen. If she’s not completely gone then he can’t come back. End of discussion.

This may take a few goes but it will eventually work. He will either leave her and come back wholeheartedly (with his tail between his legs) or he will leave you and allow you to move on. Sounds very tough but its cleaner and clearer and leaves you with self respect and dignity rather than the alternative. The alternative is a long drawn out charade of lies and broken promises and false starts and stringing you along that it’s over when it really isn’t.

He has to leave his job - that’s a given. He will think you are crazy for asking him to do that but he’s wrong and can’t be trusted so ignore that. In fact his willingness to resign from his job shows you he’s serious and cares about what you think. In fact that’s what you need from him. Absolute openness to your inquiries about time, money, email and phone records, everything. He will even offer that to you while trying to keep the affair going on the side so you have to outsmart him and strip his life bare. The more willing he is for that to happen the more you can begin to trust him.

But shock treatment is required I’m sorry to say. He’s a sick puppy right now and your love for him will be demonstrated now in how strong you can be in demanding he act with integrity, instead of sneaking around like a criminal.

But what about you? This course of action is very difficult and you feel worse that you ever imagined right now. You need a support network of friends and family and people who will share this work with you and stand by you. Don’t go it alone. Think of this as a your mission for a while that requires strength and resolve and commitment. The prize is winning him back without any reservation. And in the process your marriage gets better because it gets realer.

Keep us posted.

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chivers Offline OP
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Thank you so much for responding to my post - it has made my Monday morning that you troubled to respond. All your advice is sound and has provided some very useful pointers.

I do not have any family and given I have only lived in this area for 6 months have no friends. I am the boss where I work so work colleagues cannot provide any support really.

I am in regular contact with friends from where I used to live - 250 miles away though. So the 'removing myself' is a bit problematic at the moment. I have started to look for jobs back from where we moved from - nothing at the mo.

I wondered about going on holiday on my own but would prefer to go away with WS.

Had a very difficult Saturday - shopping with my WS and in a very trendy clothes shop which has three floors - and OW and her partner are there on the top floor. She was so superior and her partner was buying her a new v. expensive bag. I nearly fainted, I was hyper-ventilating and could hardly focus. What it showed me was that she is so confident in her 'role' she was swanning around the shop very upfront. I am not too sure when she spotted me - her partner and I have met and speak on the telephone but I could not acknowledge him as I was not sure that he would want me to speak to him - she would know that we have met. She seems to have it always - she has her partner trying to get her to stay, my WS missing her and thinking how great she is. This was my first sighting - and inevitably I hated her on sight!. Immediate thoughts were how unsuited she and my WS are - but I suppose that is to be expected. I behaved quite well - went downstairs and told my husband that she was in the shop with her partner. There was this crazy bit where he is trying a suit on - which he has had altered to fit <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />- they come down and stand with their backs to us and chat to the owner. No LB's from me though - I could have said loads about her unfortunate clothes and manner but didn't.


Me (BS) 46 - moved in December 2004 to be with WH - no real support network to call on WH 44 - moved to new job in June 2004 - 200 miles from home OW 43 - Head of HR in same workplace - but met soulmate so it does not matter about work issues D Day May 2005 - Plan A (with OWH in Plan A too)until December 2005. Plan B - did OK until lapse at end of Oct 2006. WH and I met in 1983, friends until 1989 when started our relationship - moved in together in 1992, and married in 2001.
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I'm new here, too, and am giving my try at plan A. Frankly, the possibility of my WS giving up OM any time soon is slim at best. She'd have to quit her job which, in this particular situation, would be a bad move from a career and financial standpoint. Right now, WS would rather give up marriage than job. But both OM and I are providing emotional needs, otherwise she'd be gone. The post by "grxannm" says, essentially, move to Plan B. That, indeed, may be necessary. But first, I believe, I need to come to terms with myself. To be able to stand back and look at myself at least somewhat objectivily and accept, emotionally, what is going on. To discover that I can be happy whatever happens. I believe this requires accepting what WS is without being bitter. Unhappy about what WS is *doing*, yes, but still accepting of what WS *is*. That's hard but possible and, once achieved, pays back. This transformation in yourself may, in fact...I hope, be enough in and of itself to achieve your goal. Demanding won't.

$0.02

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This is my first post. I've been reading since January. In February I told my WS to stop the A. Contact continues even today. I've been doing a wonderful job of meeting his needs during this plan A. I'm getting so impatient!! I'm trying to stay calm, pleasant, and give him space. My desire to see our marraige survive feels like it is fading quickly. If he decided to stay and commit, I'm not sure I would be excited. I have no trust.

His A was with someone who portrayed herself as my "best friend." Their A was going on while I entertained her and her husband and children in my home almost every weekend for months. My husband and her were very good at keeping they're feelings hidden. The betrayel on both their parts hurts so much. She would talk to my husband and I about her unhappy marraige...my husband would even give her advice on how to communicate. When I wasn't around, I guess that's when my husband told her that he was unhappy too. They both agreed they could be happier......you can guess the rest.

Any way...my therapist says hang in there for 6 months, or as long as you can.

grxxnnm's "take" unfortunately seems so real. My husband is lost in some fantasy Don Jaun movie....and yes, I'm scared.

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Quote
I am a recovering WH and the comments I make are from that perspective, so for what it&#8217;s worth here goes.

I was in an identical situation to your husband. The affair became physical within a month of us acknowledging the feelings we felt so my guess would be it&#8217;s physical. Sorry, but just trying to give you the best possible position to fight from &#8211; the truth.

Now here&#8217;s another issue. This OW certainly has the potential to make your husband happy, but that&#8217;s true of thousands of women in the world so don&#8217;t even worry about that. A marriage always exists in a world where either partner could be &#8220;happy&#8221; with someone else buts that&#8217;s no excuse for dumping the other person and moving on. That&#8217;s what empty-head Hollywood couples do but that&#8217;s another story.

Your husband does love you despite what he says or does right now but he also loves this new woman because she is meeting needs that you didn&#8217;t. But again don&#8217;t worry about that. One of the needs she meets which you couldn&#8217;t possibly meet is novelty and the thrill of the chase. Woman can only ever meet that need in men for the first year at most, before it just naturally dwindles so don&#8217;t feel any pressure to compete on that level. You can&#8217;t and within a year she won&#8217;t be able to either.

So why is she so attractive to your husband? Because she&#8217;s new and different and there&#8217;s no rules, and he doesn&#8217;t have to be responsible and its like a James Bond movie, all intrigue and sexual tension and undercover. And sadly it&#8217;s probably sex, new and exciting, like it was with you when you first got together. Which it was, no matter what he says now.

So leave all that comparison stuff to one side because you can&#8217;t win on that level. Marriage isn&#8217;t about performing like a trained seal to keep fickle idiot husbands happy and at home. It&#8217;s about a long term, stable, partnership that creates long term, stable families and society. And it&#8217;s also about long term support, care and love, which strangely enough is what you both need each other for right now. Your husband is sick, he is quite probably addicted, and he is about to throw away his wife, family, career, self respect, values, long term happiness and satisfaction to be James Bond for a few months.

The distress he feels is his own realization of that. He wants to keep both of you. This is never about choosing one or the other - it&#8217;s about keeping both of you. He will do whatever he can to keep both of you. That is the absolute guiding principle of his life right now &#8211;keep both! So once you know that you can respond appropriately.

Tell him that you know he would like to keep both of you but you have too much integrity to allow that to happen. You have honored you commitment to him and you expect the same from him, otherwise there is no marriage to save. Tell him you absolutely will not allow him to hurt you and insult you any more and he must choose who he will be with but your terms are absolutely no contact, at all, ever with the OW ever again. That&#8217;s not negotiable in any way. Those are your terms. Everything else is negotiable. You will work on the marriage, lose weight, gain weight, play soccer, stop playing soccer, talk more, talk less, whatever is necessary to fix any problems you both may have but she has to go once and for all. Tell him you realize that this is a difficult decision for him and you respect his right to choose. Tell him he can take some time to decide and while you wait for his decision you will be at your mother&#8217;s or sister&#8217;s or whatever. But make it clear that there are immediate negative consequences for his behaviour and they start right now. You&#8217;re not leaving him but you are not prepared to live in the same house while he hurts insults and disrespects you so brutally and you must take steps to protect yourself and the children (if any) from his foolish, destructive behaviour. Tough but fair.

Now he will flip out at this. He will get angry or sad or panicky or run away or do all sorts of crazy things. He will beg you to stay or throw something at you or anything in between. But that&#8217;s fine. Here what he heard you say-&#8220;You have to grow up now and stop being James Bond. Its time to be a big boy and stop living just to please yourself and cruelly abusing your wife and your OW. (Who, by the way, is also a big loser in this game he&#8217;s playing. She is sadly getting her reward for doing this too).

This will shock him and frighten him because he thought he was playing a role in cool movie with two women chasing him and he&#8217;s man enough to keep them happy. Now you&#8217;ve shattered his dream and called him on it. He may run immediately to the other woman but that&#8217;s OK too. Life with her, even on a temporary basis, will be horrible. They will pretend for a while that it&#8217;s great but it not and within a short while he will realize what he&#8217;s lost and what he&#8217;s gained. He will come back to you and try and negotiate on the no contact rule. He will want to keep both of you remember because that&#8217;s what he really wants. So you just refuse to allow that o happen. If she&#8217;s not completely gone then he can&#8217;t come back. End of discussion.

This may take a few goes but it will eventually work. He will either leave her and come back wholeheartedly (with his tail between his legs) or he will leave you and allow you to move on. Sounds very tough but its cleaner and clearer and leaves you with self respect and dignity rather than the alternative. The alternative is a long drawn out charade of lies and broken promises and false starts and stringing you along that it&#8217;s over when it really isn&#8217;t.

He has to leave his job - that&#8217;s a given. He will think you are crazy for asking him to do that but he&#8217;s wrong and can&#8217;t be trusted so ignore that. In fact his willingness to resign from his job shows you he&#8217;s serious and cares about what you think. In fact that&#8217;s what you need from him. Absolute openness to your inquiries about time, money, email and phone records, everything. He will even offer that to you while trying to keep the affair going on the side so you have to outsmart him and strip his life bare. The more willing he is for that to happen the more you can begin to trust him.

But shock treatment is required I&#8217;m sorry to say. He&#8217;s a sick puppy right now and your love for him will be demonstrated now in how strong you can be in demanding he act with integrity, instead of sneaking around like a criminal.

But what about you? This course of action is very difficult and you feel worse that you ever imagined right now. You need a support network of friends and family and people who will share this work with you and stand by you. Don&#8217;t go it alone. Think of this as a your mission for a while that requires strength and resolve and commitment. The prize is winning him back without any reservation. And in the process your marriage gets better because it gets realer.

Keep us posted.

thanks so muh for this perspective- bob pure said mine is still cake eating- How long do I do Plan A. Ive been doing thisfor 3 weeks and after reading your post - I know he's still lying- Big red flag- He is still living with OW. I told him everything you said in the phone call last friday and he says I hear you and Im still thinking and working thru this.
That he is still coming to the house to fix up on things,etc.
I feel so dumb- I thought we had made a breakthru and he was waking up. We are finally talking and working thru what happened and why.
This is the reason why I want to move out of state and just start my life over. The kids are now pulling away from him= they say they dont want to ask him for anything- I tell them hes still your dad and I dont say anything bad about him to them. My d is the only one who knows (she's 19)
He tells me when we talk- and it gets to the question of him coming back and working on he shuts down not at the beginning like before- but.......

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WK, you need to study, not just scan the marriagebuilders articles on this site, the plan A guidance posts by experts like Ark and worthatry and calmly apply the knowledge to your own situation. Dr Harley says that a woman should not plan A more than 3 months typically because they will lose love for their WH more quickly than a man for his WW.

BUT Dr. Harley would not apply such a brutal rule without reviewing the state of your situation.

First you need to assimilate Plan A tenets and apply them. One you do this you will be able to get a feel for how long to do this before going dark in plan B.

You should buy and read 'surviving an affair' by Dr. Willard Harley and Dr. Judith Chalmers. It really is a wonderfully practical book.

In case they help Click here for a set of useful resources I pulled together that were so very helpful to me.

All blessings.


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chivers Offline OP
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I know that my original post has been added to - and the additional responses have been helpful.

I have studied so much information about a good Plan A. I have been trying this since May - so am over the notional 3 months recommended. No real progress I feel.
WH is still saying there is something missing, and he is not happy. He has begun counselling but I feel that it is to vindicate his decisions and alleviate the guilt he feels rather than him contemplating him working on his marriage. He has not at any time given me any impression that he feels his marriage is worth saving. It's more about leaving me on my own and all the years we have been together.

Other woman Plan B'd him for a short while - made him even more keen. OW partner is doing Plan A as well - we speak weekly to check out how each other is - he is less keen to confront his WS - and just enjoys all the good things they are doing together. I have had a terrible week and completely undid all the good work I have been doing on Plan A during one torrid evening on Monday. I feel completely drained of my emotions and seem to be dulled. I can hardly speak to my WS, and he asks if I am angry with him as I am so distant and quiet.


Me (BS) 46 - moved in December 2004 to be with WH - no real support network to call on WH 44 - moved to new job in June 2004 - 200 miles from home OW 43 - Head of HR in same workplace - but met soulmate so it does not matter about work issues D Day May 2005 - Plan A (with OWH in Plan A too)until December 2005. Plan B - did OK until lapse at end of Oct 2006. WH and I met in 1983, friends until 1989 when started our relationship - moved in together in 1992, and married in 2001.
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hi- im wondering- when you were the ws didi you ever think about how your wife was suffering? Did you discuss your spouse with ow? When did you wake up and decide to go home- Time span?
I am not doing well with Plan A at all. I am more miserable than before and I keep seeing them in my mind together - sleeping together like we used to and i get more and more depressed. I want him to love me and not her- for him to wake up.

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bump upplease


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