Basically, you are saying that I am disrespecting people when I believe that I can help them. That's not true. I've helped a lot of people. I help move furniture, I've given advice, I've teamed up with people to make tremendous results. The fundamental belief in helping others is that 1+1 = 1 billion.
Yes, that's true, and I'd like to add that I put my energy into people who simply don't reciprocate. It's also funny how easy it would be to reciprocate. Just a kind word, a sincere smile, but when one is taken advantage of...it's just not fun anymore.

I heard that it's the person being taken advantage of who has the problem, and that it's natural to just use someone, if they allow it. Well, I think we should be more considerate of each other.

My feeling drained might be that I've put so much unreciprocated love into my marriage that I just feel pooped. Also, when my wife ignores, stifles, negates, badgers, etc., it just snatches away the positive energy I've built up for myself.

My wife isn't like that all the time.

Last week, we argued again. Mostly because I was honest with my feelings. At least I was honest.

I said things like: In summary, the most honest way I can describe my feelings is that I feel like I don't matter to you. I also feel violated and ignored.


No, here are some examples:

1) If I'm not feeling great about myself and I mention it to her, she just gets frustrated. I also don't think this happens very often, but I think it's only natural to wish that one's marriage will support an effort to a) build a business

b) heal an illness or c) do something else of personal significance like go to school, or seek some kind of growth. What am I supposed to be, completely emotionless? Cold, brutal, and untalkative? Is that what she wants? So, I try to share my thoughts with her, and it usually doesn't work very well...although we've had a few good discussions.

2) When she does something nice for me, it generally doesn't have anything to do with what I might like. She makes something, or does something, but she doesn't do it in the spirit of knowing me. It's like serving steak to a vegetarian or going to a lecture with someone who likes dancing or sticking a carrot in someone's mouth who wants ice cream (or the other way around).

So in general, what I'm saying is that I am nice about these things. I state my "boundaries" nicely. I don't yell them. But when I state them nicely, my wife doesn't listen to them at all. So now, she's started to trounce all over my "boundaries," she's neglected her career and our standard of living. She's invited some people for Halloween, and of course, I needed to get our place together. Maybe I'm embarrassed about how she keeps our apartment. But she "TOOK OVER" the housework, even though she didn't need to.

I'm perfectly glad to help, and I just have no idea what she does all day. She's not on drugs, she's not an alcoholic, but she seems to just while her time away sitting around.

So, I've heard her talk about her fears, and I've heard her get more motivated to meet people, and she's taken some baby steps with wonderful results. She really is a dynamic, friendly, bouyant, wonderful person. But she's not out there. I can't be the soul source of her entertainment. Basically...where I'm going is that, when I'm nice about things, she tends not to listen. When I yell, she ignores. Then, when I yell like an outright lunatic (like her mother), then she finally listens and gives me the indication "oh, he actually means what he says."

Would it be possible for my wife to realize that I don't like yelling? That I don't like being ignored until I yell? So, in a way, maybe she's trying to "teach" me not to be so nice. What kind of "teaching" is that? What about learning how to be nicer, more loving, more accepting, more abundant, more joyous? Yes, I've had other people step all over me in my life, but they are generally not good people, and they usually disappear from my life. There are some people in this world who are "in it for themselves," at whatever cost to others. Calling them "not good people" might be judgemental, but one can "feel" it oozing out of them. They can put on a pleasant face, but then they lie, cheat, steal, or take advantage of you.

Now it's my wife, and I feel trounced on. At least now she knows it. I don't think she is a "bad person," it's just that I feel taken advantage of in our marriage.


Geeze, all I'm doing is expressing a bit of self doubt at times. Percentages can help here. In certain areas I rarely, if ever feel self-doubt. In other areas, I feel some self-doubt. If I kick myself and show it to my wife, then I'm just saying "I'm not confident in myself here, look, I'm hurting."

About doing what I do to myself to others. In general, I am very good to myself. I have a habit of working too hard and taking too few breaks, which I'm working on. If my wife were participating in family matters (cleaning, earning, planning), then we'd be better off. We've been improving on that level.

I guess where I'm going is that I don't do the worst I do to myself to others -- and I'm not bad to myself. The only way I'm bad to myself is by overgiving to others. I read a quote "love yourself as you love your neighbor," and that one applies to me. From me, others always get love, work, a kind ear, sympathy, solutions, etc. And is it so bad to want my wife to be kind to me? For her to acknowledge when I'd like to go to sleep and for her to actually make it possible for me to do so? If I come home for dinner and she said she'd have it ready, would it be possible for her to have it ready, instead of making me either go get something, cook, or wait? Do you think she might be able to get to the store now and then instead of sending me?

I want a friendly, kind marriage. I want us to learn from each other and grow and have fun. I want to be able to express my thoughts, feelings, ideas, visions, and dreams and have them heard, understood and cared for.

In a way, I'm longing for some of my old friendships, even some of my past relationships with women, because they enjoyed talking with me. They loved my ideas and the way I think. They loved how tender I was with their feelings...and what gets me is that my wife was like that, for the most part, before we were married. It's like we got married and all of a sudden, I'm a tyrant when I express an opinion. Also, we got married and she just stopped doing anything for herself. Also, our marriage certificate is not a "license to insult."

I own my feelings, and I've told my wife my feelings. I understand that she can't "make" me feel a particular way, but there are things that hurt. One can be intentionally hurtful to another person, and my wife does that from time to time.

She thinks she's retaliating...but it seems to me like she's confusing me with her mother. We've been through that...I tell her "I'm not your mother," and the conversation heads back in a positive direction.

So, basically, I don't like the phases you wrote about, and I don't feel like I fit.

We are a we. Society is a we. We cannot be and are not "independent," even people who go off and live in isolation, in a cave or something, even they aren't "independent." Our feelings are our own, however, we are all one.

The Ziggy cartoon is answered by "we are here to help each other." Each other. Reciprocal. Happy. Here, dear Friend, you can't fill that emotional void...? Guess what, I can, let me show you how...see how easy that was? Now you can do it too on your own. Oh, you can't lift that heavy closet...I can, I'm big and strong...here you go. Oh, you can't lift that heavy bookshelf...I'm not as strong as you, but I have a roller cart and a really good brain, I can show you how to lift that heavy bookshelf with nothing but this roller cart and a bit of slick lifting and positioning...you won't even break a sweat. Oh, you're hungry, here's how you grow your own food, then when you've eaten, you can come over and teach me how to sew.

In a way I feel like I've been through the Phase I and II you're talking about...and it feels like I went through them thousands of years ago. I'm ready to just have an abundant and fun life. I want to be able to express my opinions and have them accepted and then build from there. If her opinion is helpful, we'll use that and build from her opinion. Who care's whose opinion it was...we're building a life together.

My wife just seems so wrapped up in power struggles and conflicts and abuse...all from her past. I don't want them. I want her to be kind to me. I want her to be a friend. Also, I do get to be right about something for once. My wife acts as if I were wanting to be right all the time. I don't, I just want to be heard and it really sucks not being heard.

Today was another disaster. My wife has people coming today (a morning children's class). I offered to make her breakfast, clean the bathroom, take out the garbage, do some general tidying, and mop the floor. She rolled her eyes at me and started scoffing. She wouldn't say yes or no...she just got angry at me and wouldn't answer. Before I spoke to her, she was looking at a sheet of paper. I asked her if she could look up from the paper for a moment, so that we could make an agreement. She's done this before. I'll say something to her while she's "doing something," but if she's in a particular mood, then she'll yell at me. No, I don't know that she can't allow her concentration to budge...she can just say "Honey, I need to concentrate on this right now" in a kind tone, but instead, she just yells at me and ignores me (which is the strategy that she used to deal with her abusive mother).

Her mother was abusive, I'm not making that up, confirmed by the church, the priest, the local community where she grew up, her immediate family, etc. It has been a great relief in our marriage that the priest from my wife's community told my wife that her mother should be treated as if she had a mental and emotional handicap. The priest having said that has brought a lot of relief to my wife and to our marriage.

This morning, I was hurt by her not accepting what I was willing to give, what would improve our apartment, what would make things easier for her, so she could prepare for the class, what would make me happier about the presentation of our home...I mean...I'm standing there honestly happily offering to clean. Now she's teaching her class, and I know she hasn't had any breakfast. Great. And what, she's going to blame me? I offered to make her breakfast, she yelled at me, she scoffed at me, she evaded my offers, she just started calling me names and rolling her eyes. Here's a happy husband ready to mop and what...the wife is going to send that husband to ******? What's wrong with her?

Today, my day is practically shot. Yes, it messes up my day. I just don't function well when she yells at me. Yelling was the way to communicate in her Family Of Origin...but it really rips me apart. I can't stand it. It takes me a whole day or two just to recover from the kind of yelling she uses. The only thing I wanted her to do is actually listen and respond to what I said. Is that too much to ask?

How holy am I supposed to get?

She can just ignore me, yell at me, make and break promises, not work, etc., and I'm just supposed to say: "I own my own feelings, and I'm happy no matter what you do, you can't make me feel any way...even if the kitchen floor is a complete tragedy...I'm happy, thank you?" That's what I'm supposed to do?

What about "I'd rather we figured out a way both of us can be happy with the cleanliness of the kitchen floor." Isn't that diplomatic enough? Interestingly, I never had an "all too clean" image of my wife in Phase I.

Regarding the situation where my wife promised to make dinner by 6:00 PM, if I'd said anything at 6:05, she would have called me a dictator. When I say something, I violate her opportunity to do what she promised without coaching. So, when I don't say anything, she at least has the opportunity to make good on her promise, albeit a bit late. It's a lose lose lose situation. She loses, I lose, and our marriage loses.

I don't know what my wife is testing. It seems like she wants to just see whether I'll earn, clean, do the shopping, do household chores, and basically do everything besides cooking. Literally, anything beyond cooking is my responsibility including cleaning up the stove she slops up...and of course cleaning up her dirty pots and pans.

The beginning of the dialog I made up was fairly realistic. The ending wasn't. It was contrived.


We make agreements, I stick to my end of the bargain, but she doesn't stick to hers. Yes, by her breaking agreements, I've been able to uncover some real "Emotional Needs," and I've started being able to voice them. But, in a way, I feel like while taking over the role of housekeeper, breadwinner, kitchen cleaner, etc., I'm also taking over the role of "wife" and "feminine energy" when I really talk about my "Emotional Needs" as such.

I've made it clear to my wife that I don't even want things to descend into "needs." I'd rather leave things in the realm of "preferences" and get excited by "desires." Who needs "need?" They make everyone feel so "needy!"

I don't hide any "additional" requirements, and if in the process of being on the tail end of a Love Buster, or if I somehow feel hurt and then I isolate that there might be an "additional requirement," I'm perfectly happy to express that and realize that the only way the "Emotional Need" could be fulfilled would be "next time," since I've isolated something that my wife didn't know about before. I'm not about to blame my wife or be angry at her for something she didn't know.



I am being honest. It's not about the timing. It's that she didn't say anything to me about not being able to have dinner ready at approximately the time she promised. It's also about when, in my opinion, she should communicate a change in plans.

When she doesn't have dinner ready and there is nothing she feels like cooking at home and I come home...then I'm actually upset that she didn't have the forethought to give me a call and ask me to pick up a few things on the way home from work. If there's plenty of food in the fridge, and there really is no explanation...then well, I just don't get it...OK, it's not about timing...it's about somehow trying to understand why my wife will so dynamically agree to make dinner at 6PM, and then we wind up eating at 9PM. It's also about being able to talk about the situation without my wife yelling, calling me names, attacking, or getting frustrated.

So, I don't care about the timing. I care about the communication. Also, it would make me feel loved, if around 6:00, my wife would just say "hey, I was supposed to make dinner by 6:00..." and then come up with some alternative. It's about being remembered. It's about her actions and words indicating to me that I mean something to her and that my happiness is important to her.

Frankly, dinner and dishes should be no-brainer, super-easy aspects of life. Sorry, but my wife's mother treats dinner like a disaster and an emergency every single day. It's incredible to watch, and my wife seemed to have perspective over her mother's disfunctional behavior before we got married. We got married, and she started modeling her mom. People eat every day. I don't mean to be pedantic here, but it's not complicated. They eat every day. They eat at approximately the same times, if they want to be healthy. Some people think snacking throughout the day is healthy...that's possible too. It's a decision you can make. Just decide and then go with it.

Dinner is not an emergency. Is there any way I can communicate that to my wife? If she she doesn't have what she needs to cook she can go to the store. She can go to the store the day before or a few hours before. It's not a good strategy to wait until 6:30PM and then start cooking when you said you'd have dinner ready at 6:00 PM...also, it's not a good strategy to be shocked by what is or isn't in the refrigerator at 6:30. Even 4:30 is time enough to make adjustments...but 6:00 and after is too late.

Actually there are quite a few real love deposits going on from both ends. My wife has been able to hear a lot of what I've had to say lately. Also, we've reconnected on creating a clearer vision of the kind of home and life we would like. As a result, a number of changes have come about. In a way, I feel that my wife has started to awaken to our abilities to craft our own lives and life together...but her name-calling and ignoring and stabbing, and harsh behavior are very debilitating for me...when she does it, I feel like I can't accomplish anything, and I also feel like accomplishing anything isn't even worth it. It's not that I'm "doing" for recognition, but if you're going to get yelled at no matter what you do, then what's the point?

Also, what's wrong with recognition? When I acknowledge my wife, she feels great. When I acknowledge other people I know, they feel great. On a marriage audio tape, I heard that there are certain people who've received very little affirmation or acknowledgement in their lives. I am going to write it here...these people are often successful, good-looking, and smart. I don't like speaking well of myself, but maybe I should. I am good-looking, successful, and yes, I am smarter than the average bear.

I've won prizes and received recognition for things I've done, and I've even meditated on somehow being wonderful in a way that makes other people feel happy instead of being wonderful in a way that makes others want to bash my face in. Yet, the constant removal of happiness or self-confidence that my wife seems to wish upon me...well...it's working quite well. It often takes me about 30minutes when I leave the house to somehow "reconstruct" the person that I am...to be able to smile at the trees, and to "rebuild" myself as a happy and capable person.

The whole thing is a big huge waste of energy and time. I wish to have a wonderful life and a wonderful career. Certain things can only be accomplished if one has a happy home life.

It just seems like my wife wants to sabotage any progress we might make...maybe she's not comfortable with a clean apartment, plenty of money, fun vacations, and regular mealtimes. Does she really want to argue, live in debt, not let me work or sleep, and cut me down?

So, we took a number of steps back today, and now, instead of working, I'm writing to this forum. But I can't really work...when my wife has stifled or ignored or insulted, I have a really hard time being nice to clients on the phone...I have a really hard time with doing anything that involves contact with other people or any postitive plans I have or we have for our future.

So, I'm really mad at my wife. I feel like her behavior has negatively affected our finances, the cleanliness or our apartment, my career, her career, our life together, and our chances of having a wonderful life together. I've reached out in hundreds of ways to resolve the issue. I've purchased books, suggested and organized counseling, etc. If my wife doesn't start participating in the improvement of our marriage...then what...if I threaten divorce, well, then that's what will happen.

It sucks to feel like threatening divorce might actually do some good. Also, I understand that positive reinforcement is something my wife really needs. She was abused...so she needs positive reinforcemnet...but can't she handle 98% positive reinforcement and 2% well-intended, kindly formulated critique? Now, the 2% critique has built up and built up to the point where I'm overwhelmed with it. And I still express it kindly, amidst tons of praise...and still, she can't handle it...for goodness sake...

Best,
D--

We ask for your prayers in this difficult time. I ask that you pray for healing, happiness, understanding, and abundant joy in our marriage.

I am starting to use my presence as a boundary. When my wife name calls, I just say, "You can talk to me when you're ready to speak in kindness."

I accept my wife for who she is.

Before and on our way to church, my wife was discourteous to me. As a big exception to the rule, I stayed in bed a bit longer than her, she made noises, left the bedroom door open, etc. When I wake up before her (the norm), I walk in my socks, I keep the door closed, and I'm very conscious of the amount of noise I make. I close the doors kindly and lightly.

What is it going to take for her to start treating me with kindness?

I realize that her family of origin had an incredible amount of abuse and disrespect, but my wife was actually fairly considerate of me when we were dating. There were some problems, but she voiced her commitmen to mutually improve and grow together. I believed her. We got married and it changed so drastically.

She consistently makes us late. It's hard to cope with her disrespect towards her friends, my friends, her family, my family...as she tends to disrespect others' time. But, she's aware of it and she has stated many times that she wishes to improve. She has been improving.

Well, this morning, I asked her when she would be ready. She said that her "goal is xyz time." Knowing that she, in a sense, is trying to be slippery without getting herself into a situation where she commits to a time, I said "you know, a 'goal' is fine for now, but in general it's a lot easier to work with a commitment to a time." She said "you're bothering me," in an irritated tone of voice. She did say we could talk on the way to church.

She met her goal, she was ready at her "goal time" and she was happy about it, but seemed very scattered. I praised her, but I just wanted to say that it's harder to understand what time we'd be going somewhere when it's a "goal time" versus something like "I'll be ready between 10:00 and 10:15."

She was so agitated, and she started raising her voice. She also would not address what I was saying.

We've done some Marital Counseling, and we've learned that summarizing each other's thoughts to the other's satisfaction is critical to good communication. I have no problems listening and summarizing until my wife is happy and satisfied that I've understood her.

My wife has very big problems summarizing my statements or thoughts to my satisfaction. She gets very agitated even at the very beginning. She gets uncomfortable during discourse or dialog. If her first guess isn't "right," she'll start negating my statements and stomping her feet.

I don't understand what the big deal is with my being heard and understood in our marriage. My wife just seems to be so incredibly unwilling to take my feelings, thoughts, preferences, needs, or desires into consideration. In many cases, she's adamantly unwilling to do so.

She's made soup for dinner before. Two bowls. I praise the soup, eat the first bowl, then when I see there's only one bowl left for me, I start making myself a sandwich. She starts yelling at me. Isn't the soup good enough? Yes, it's great, I just...Well I made the soup, eat the soup...Ummm, I'm eating the soup, what's wrong with me making a...etc. etc.

I don't get to complete my thoughts, my sentences are cut off before they are finished, she insults, name calls, insists, I summarize, she doesn't, and it just continues.

Well, this morning, all I wanted was for her to say something like "it seems like your saying that when I express a 'goal' to be ready at a particular time, it doesn't sound like a commitment to you, so you feel confused as to what time I'll be ready."

Is that wrong of me?

Is it wrong of me to wish to be heard?

My wife just walked away from me, and I let her. I turned around and went back home.

It was insulting enough also, that because there is a special concert at church today, she was actually walking quickly, which she never does if I want to get somewhere. If something is important to me, she couldn't care less. She walks more slowly than ever, and then complains that I'm not walking with her.

So now, it feels like my Sunday is shot. No relaxation, no day for God, no cleaning, no nothing.

Of course, my wife is used to this. She can take it. This is what her Family of Origin is and was like. She'll likely be able to come home and act like nothing happened. Actually, that's also how her family works...no one discusses anything, the anger just seethes and seethes, but my wife somehow "deals" with it.

I'm getting sick and tired of being the only one "doing" for our marriage as well. I organized counseling, I bought books and CD's, and well...what about her?

If she doesn't care about me or our marriage, then maybe I just need to accept that. I am a very loving person, and I have a lot of friends. My wife has very few friends, although I believe that in her core, she is an incredibly loving and beautiful person.

This thread is the home of many of the most negative things that have surfaced in our marriage.

I pray for this to become easy. I pray for us to be loved and to love each other. She says she loves me, and I believe that she feels a lot of love towards me and for me, but I don't feel loved as a result of many of her actions, words, and inactions.

I ask you again for your prayers.

Sincerely,
D--

PS -- If I'm supposed to post on how much I accept her, what about the behavior I simply can't accept in my life? What about her violations of me and my personal views of how one should treat a friend/loved one/family member/life partner/husband/wife?

I firmly believe that my marriage will turn around and become a wonderful resource for both me and my wife.

It will be fun, joyous, and bubbling.

We will giggle a lot.

We will be healthy, abundant, and glowing.

Best,
D--

I missed where you said to your wife, "I feel used and rejected. I believe I was not considered by you right now, in the bedroom. I get that because I promised myself to stay conscious of you, when you sleep...walk in socks, close the bedroom. I know this is why I perceive you not considering me as rejection."

Your wife doesn't have the power to make you late...to anything. That's about you and boundaries. Your choice to perceive you are MADE late...therefore all the resulting feelings you have from your choice to believe that...is yours.

"I'm not feeling heard right now."

"I'm hearing you interrupt before I can complete my thought."

Why on earth are you choosing to listen and repeat name calling? Why not choose to be truthful, instead of lying?

"Name calling is abusive. Stop."

If she doesn't, you bound yourself to say, "I do not accept abuse. I will be back in 30 minutes to listen to your thoughts."

We've been over this several times...unil you choose to set boundaries around yourself, hold yourself to them, and act from your code, then you will continue to build resentment, punish your spouse and feel incredibly erased...and you're doing that to you! By choice!

You can pray all you want for an abundant marriage...God's been handing you all the information you need to have one...until you own your own stuff...what is within your control, your mandate to DO for your marriage...then you won't have it.

Your judgment, DJs are poisoning your marriage. When you pray, "Dearest Lord, please make this marriage a wonderful resource for us" and then poison it, what can God do? He has no domain over your choices or anyone's...they are yours and yours alone.

He can't MAKE you happy, joyous or bubbling...angry, pain-filled or fearful. He didn't put that in our design...even the Holy Spirit cannot...yet God will bring you the same message, unyieldingly, to answer your own prayers.

You know you are loved. You know you choose to love. You are not acting from it...you remain in the tit for tat...do for me what I do for you...which is disrespectful and battery acid on human relationships. Your choice. As long as you give to get love...you will remain a source of judgment, tumult and anguish in yourself and your marriage.

Your focus remains where you have no control...no domain. On her.

Turn it back to you...define and act from your code...like walking in socks because that's WHO YOU REALLY ARE...not to get that treatment back. Know your acts of love, from your own code, and BE love...not earn it. Deserve it. Be entitled to it because of your own choices...which are about you, not her.

LA

A) Things are getting WAY better in my marriage.
B) I believe it's possible for people to help each other out in life.



Dear LA, thank you for your dedication to this post. It's impossible to count the times I've made such statements and used such words. My wife calls me a tape recorder. OK? She says I'm "too sensitive" when I say "I feel..." and if I say "I feel rejected," she says "you always feel rejected." Then I say "I feel belittled, I don't always feel rejected, I feel rejected when [insert]" The inserts have ranged from I statements to "I feel when you" to "when people xyz, I generally feel" to abstract analogies that don't come close to triggering my wife's overload, name-calling, and attack attack attack buttons.



If it is my appointment, you are 100% right. If it is our appointment. A party, a get-together, a movie, a dinner with friends...of course she can make us late. If she's late and I'm not, and I'm waiting around in my coat, then she made us late. It's not judgemental, it's not cold, it's not emotional, it's just the way it is. If a team loses a game because player X drops the ball, then that's just the way it is. The team lost the game as a team. That's true. We were late. But player X dropped the ball, and the team would not have lost the game, had player X caught the ball. Why fret over forced perspective? Player X may have caught the ball 99% of the time. The team may have never made it to the playoffs, had player X not been so great. But in that game at that moment, player X dropped the ball. It happens. We take responsibility, we make adjustments, we celebrate our successes and failures, and we learn.



I don't know what you mean, and I find it unpleasant to be accused of lying. In my opinion, neither my wife nor I are lying, and I think she would agree. We are doing the best we can in our marriage, and "lying" is something reserved for dishonest, malicious people. We are not that. Maybe you mean a softer version of the word "lying," but I'm not sure. Maybe resonances from your own relationships are creeping into this thread, and I know you intend to help. I find your language accusitory and offensive, and I'm sure there are better ways to convey what you mean by focusing on the positive result you recommend for married couples instead of pointing out the flaws using inflammatory language.



Using my presence as a consequence has helped. Thanks for the advice.



I own my own stuff, more than you know. Maybe the problem is that I own not only my own stuff, but the "stuff" of a ton of other people, including my wife.



Where are you getting this? Why are you assuming that I embody such characteristics? Actually, I don't want to know the answer to those questions.

I'm not giving to get love. Maybe I just want a clean floor. Maybe I just don't think it's fair for me to be the person to "always" clean the floor. It only become a matter of whether my wife loves me or not when it becomes me "always" cleaning the floor, doing the dishes, being the primary provider, ironing the clothes, buying the food, etc. etc. etc.

I'm not giving to get love. Maybe I like reciprocal friendships, and I'm a very giving person who sometimes winds up overgiving. That's why I like being around good people who temper what they take from me, because they know I'll do a whole lot for them.

Also, my wife was emotionally and verbally abused in her childhood. She locked herself in her room to get away from her screaming mother. It was an awful childhood. I didn't have an awful childhood like that, and guess what...maybe my wife needed someone to clean up after her for a number of years so that she could heal from the wounds of her abuse. Sure, I was, in a sense "abused," but my wife is starting to realize that. Suer, we argued a lot about it, but a lot of the time, I just did it. Weeks, months went by, and I just did it. She slept.

Well, guess what. It seems like she is recovering. She's starting to take responsibility for things. Good for her.

And it hasn't been "all my problem." It hasn't been "me needing to take ownership of my stuff." Sure, I can benefit from that, but the focus has been on my wife healing. The ways she treated me, symptomatic of abuse...well, they were unacceptable.

We choose our emotional responses, I'm not denying that. I own my feelings. OK. Clear. No problem.

So, it took about 2.5 years of repeated I statements to get my wife to stop making noise while I was trying to fall asleep. My wife was horribly disrespected by her mother regarding going to sleep. While dating, my wife did not "show" me these patters of abuse. So, my wife did what she thought was normal: she abused me the way her mother abused her. Now she's starting to see what she's doing. Thank God. She's letting up. She's starting to take my opinions into consideration. She's taking interest in what would make me comfortable...not just in what she wants.

You state that my focus is on someone else, somewhere where I have no power. We are a we. She is a part of an us. We can be strong as a team. We can help and love each other and my wife was severly abused. She is now "in recovery," and it's beautiful. I own my feelings, thank you very much. This forum helped me vent basically every negative thing about my wife. I was too embarrassed to do it "as myself," so it served it's purpose.

She has many positive qualities, which I cherish, tell her about, appreciate, and celebrate.

I do concentrate on myself, yet my focus isn't "all" on me. I think that would be a horrible way to live. My emotions are my own, yet I believe that we are on this earth to befriend and help each other. I feel it's perfectly OK to help someone else, which basically, places the "focus" on the "other." I think it's perfectly OK for us to learn from each other and be happy.

My wife and I pulled through these last few years just fine.

Regarding God and the Holy Spirit. Yes, we are creatures of free will, but if God is love, then God does, in a sense "make" people happy. God does "make" people "of love."


Right, I agree 100%. Sometimes, the people you are with are locked into toxic patterns...what do you do then? Just divorce them? Own your own choices to the point where you wind up alone? My wife did things to me that basically, in my book, were worthy of immediate divorce. Are we divorced? No. Am I happy about that: yes.

"It makes me unhappy when you..." is a perfectly valid statement.

"I don't like it when you..." is also OK.

But you realize that the person you are saying such sentences to has basically only heard disapproval...only heard criticism...only heard rage...only been "pushed" to perform...has only received love for performance...well you start saying "holy ******, I had no idea how bad this was."

Unfortunately, the symptoms of the past abuse wind up on your kitchen floor in the form of old food. They wind up on your bathrooom floor in the form of dirty towels. They wind up messing with your desire to see a movie on time, because being late and being messy are aspects of healing...possibly even necessary rebellion.

Sure, I bore the brunt of it. And I focused on myself a lot over these last years...geeze, that rubs me the wrong way, being told that my "focus" is on her, where it shouldn't be...especially when, as we come out of this phase, my wife is actually grateful.

Yes, I focused on her. What should I have done? It's like she was a starving animal. Should I have just let her starve? "Hey, focus on yourself!!!" As I eat my sandwiches, enjoy my friends, earn money...sometimes people reach out in really really [censored] ways, but they simply don't know how else to do it.

So no, I did not let my wife starve. She needed the attention, and she got it the way she knew how.

Now, things are letting up. She's more self-confident, which makes her insult me less. I compliment her positive characteristics and yes, I "focus" on those. She is "built up," she's doing the same for me. Teamwork is way easier than doing everything alone. It's also a lot more fun.

Best,
D--

HI D,

I have noticed that my friends and family members who grew up in abusive or cold homes do display these qualities. Sleeping too much, being messy, having a hard time with task-management, trying to control every situation.

It seems like some people who didn't get the love or supported they deserved as children learn unhealthy ways to get love or support. My brother's ex-wife is very much like this. It's a tricky situation. I've seen it make my brother unhappy on many occassions (they have a child together, so there is no way to sever the relationship).

On the flip side, it sounds like your wife really loves you and like you love her. So I wish you the best as you continue to work to improve your marriage.

Thanks BackAgain,

My wife has a cold today. She's acting incredibly inappropriately. It makes it very difficult. I feel very stifled by my wife, but I do love her.

Just because she's sick does not mean that she can evade, make disrespectful judgements, insult me, etc. I mean, I was just trying to have her say whether she was going to make lunch, whether I was going to do so, or whether we were going to cook together (I'm working at home again for a while). She simply wouldn't answer in a way that a normal person can understand. If she was going to cook for herself, she could have easily cooked my lunch too.

If she didn't want to, I would have been glad to cut my veggies up, put them in a pan, and just ask her to watch the temperature.

She started acting like I was going to step all over her. Actually, she acted like I was stepping all over her.

I did not know what to do to break her expectations. I'm willing and happy to cook for the both of us, I'm willing and happy to cook together, and I'm willing and happy to have her cook for me. I do not understand why she feels the need to lash out at me, to insult me, to not move out of the way, if I'm trying to get to the sink, to act like my hand on her shoulder is some kind of poison...in a way, it is...if she allowed my hand to be on her shoulder, she would calm down and start feeling happy. So, my hand is a happiness maker, and she wants to be angry and cry and lash out and be mean.

"Being bad," I think, is one of the ways that she knows how to get attention. She insults, treats our property with contempt, does things that need to be repaired (there's a drawer I need to get around to fixing...it's a bit tight, and you need to kind of jiggle it to get it to close right...she just pushed it impatiently and broke the inside portion of the drawer). The fixing job went from one screw to a several hour project with wood glue and other things.

Of course, if I had fixed it sooner, she wouldn't have broken it...but jiggling drawer kindly allowed it to close easily. Now the drawer is on the floor.

Basically, what wound up happening, is that my wife is now crying about us living in poverty...which we aren't, and if she'd stop arguing for negativity every single second, we'd surely be doing a lot better. Anyway, I just used half of the range and made stuff for myself, which is what she (I think) wanted me to do. Now she's crying.

I had a good part-time position that covered all of our expenses. I was asked to do illegal things, which I did not do, and I was fired. We have a few months of buffer, and I'm working very hard to make sure we'll be OK financially.

I got a pay-out of my vacation time, and we have more money in the bank than we've had in a while. OK, it won't last super-long, but we aren't "in poverty." So she's crying and stabbing, turning around and walking away while I'm trying to comfort her...all kinds of slaps in the face...no contact...but hurtful nonetheless.

So, thank you very much for your kind wishes. I'm sorry to hear your brother went through a similar experience...and it's tough that they are divorced with a child in the picture.

The hardest thing is how stifling it is professionally to have a wife who often insists on negativity and failure. Things have been getting a lot better. I've incorporated a lot of affirmations, and I compliment my wife a lot. I thank her for the things she does, I build her up regarding her career, I intentionally say a lot of nice things to her.

It's just that sometimes, she wears down my positivity...she'll say one negative thing after the other until I feel like I have nothing left.

I'm really really doing the best I can here.

Here are some questions:

How can one build up a person who has been abused?
How can I prevent her abuse of me?
How can I enjoy my life and prosper, when my wife is in a cycle of pain, dejection, negative thinking, and failure?
Should I only concentrate on myself, or am I thereby abandoning my wife?
What about me in all of this? What if I yearn for someone to listen to me and make me feel heard? What if I yearn for a friend who listens and cares and responds? What if I yearn for a partner who can follow my thoughts deeper than one or two "levels" into the conversation? What if I yearn for a friend who truly cares about understanding me...without my needing to "coach" the conversations?

I'm really yearning for care here...

The tough thing is that, there are times when my wife somehow loses or forgets about her "baggage." She starts being "herself." It's wonderful. She can follow thoughts. She's mentioned that she really wants to understand me, that she really wants to make me feel understood...and we have tapes, CD's, books, etc. about how she could do that...but she would actually have to read those books, she would have to care enough to apply the principles in the CD's...and I wait and wait and wait and wait and wait...it gets painful.

It's so hard to "only" work on oneself, when your partner is being mean to you.

I really appreciate all positive advice intended to help my marriage pull through into abundance, joy, and prosperity.

Best,
D--

After a healthy, happy pause...my wife is lashing out again. However, BackAgain's comments give me hope in that maybe she's "reaching out for love in an unhealthy way."

That might be it.

So how do I give her love without supporting her negative, abusive and rude behavior?

How do I give her love when she's yelling at me or in the process of breaking a promise she made to me?

If I enforce boundaries, then I walk away. If I walk away, I'll stay away. Staying away makes me angry about the situation, because I just want our marriage to be happy and healthy, and I get really sick of getting yelled at. I get really really sick of not being heard or understood. I get sick of being stifled.

If I really enforced my boundaries, we would likely be divorced already. She has violated my concept of what our wedding vows mean so many times, I sometimes can't even believe that we're still married. I sometimes can't believe this is my life. It's like I'm living someone else's life...the life of a person in an unhappy marriage...and the real me is living a happy life of wealth, health, happiness, and abundance in a parallel universe.

Supposedly, from Stephen Covey, if I seek to understand, the relationship will naturally improve...well not if the person you are with is trained to abuse. I'll be able to summarize her thoughts perfectly, her feelings, everything. I'm willing and able to do it. Who ever heard of my turn? Who ever heard of her actually desiring to have me feel understood? Nope. I understand her. That's it. Done. Now let's go to a movie. If I ask for her to understand me, things can get shaky.

I do have to say that things have improved a lot over the last year...in particular in the "her understanding me" category. She's started applying some of the Covey principles and they do work. But what do I do when she is clearly violating the principles of empathic listening? When she is just being mean. When she repeats the patterns of her abusive past.

It's probably the hardest thing in the world for me to "be understanding" when my wife is lashing out, calling me names, breaking promises, etc. Honestly, I don't do anything to trigger these events. I don't say anything...they just happen.

My wife can be very loving, but sometimes it really hurts to be married to someone who feels she can treat the people she loves with such visciousness. She doesn't even realize how negative her behavior is. Later, she won't understand why I'm "still upset," as if I were hanging onto something illegitimate.

I wish to be understood and cared for!

I wish for our marriage to abound in love and kindness!

I'd also like to learn how to bring my marriage into the realm of love and joy.

Best,
D--

It's been a good few months. My wife is acting strangely again. She is lashing out and she seems out of sorts. When I try to hold her to calm her down she pushes me away and tells me my arms feel to hot.

It's not fair for her to ruin otherwise pleasant evenings by acting meanly.

She could ask me to not hold her...but she should not push me away. I feel that's physically abusive. Our contact should be of kindness and if she pushes, I feel she should apologize...but she was raised by a physically abusive mother...so she maybe has no idea what abuse is.

Well, I don't know if I'll be able to address this, and here I am complaining again to this forum. It feels like a big waste of time, and I honestly can't stand it.

Now, I feel like my strength, my life, my vitality, my happiness are just zapped. They are drained. I feel robbed. Violated. I feel like I can't do anything positive for myself or for our family now.

I want to be treated with fairness and love.

D--

Things have been much better, but today, I tried to open up to my wife about how I felt she has been treating me. She just attacked me and said I was attacking her. I wasn't attacking her. When she puts up her defenses instead of listening, all we do is fight...and it makes me so tired I feel like I can't do anything at all.

I'm starting to not care about trying anymore. Who cares that she leaves the kitchen a total mess? Who cares that the floor needs to be vacuumed? Who cares that the garbage needs to be taken out? Who cares? Who cares that now her and my clothes are on the floor? Who cares about what time we eat dinner and what we wind up eating for dinner? Who cares about health? Who cares about any of this?

If I'm the person who has to "uphold" the "good," the "organized," the "clean," the "timely," the "happy," and she just uses it and uses it and uses it...then forget it!

I leave things clean...she leaves them dirty.

I feel lied to, misled, blocked, and misunderstood.

D--

Today, my wife and I argued. I felt negated and not listened to. I was a bit mean and said that the only thing she cares about is herself and that everything she is saying revolves around her and her opinion. I told her that my opinions count too. When she continued just railroading over my thoughts with hers...I told her I was going to walk away if it continued...and then I did.

I went home.

She called me on her cell phone. Basically, I sought to understand her, which I did, but when it was her turn to understand me...she got frustrated and hung up on me.

I sent her a text message saying that I felt abused and that I would not accept abusive behavior in my life. I wrote that if she wanted to talk with me further, she would need to be willing to recognize and change any abusive behavior.

She just called and said that she truly does not wish to abuse me. She expressed willingness to understand what I see as abusive.

So, I'm glad. We're making progress.

Best wishes to you all,
D--

D,

You were the one in the wrong. You used disrespectful judgements when you said she only cares about herself, that everything revolves around her and her opinion. You are not a mindreader. Only she knows whether the things she says and does are because she doesn't care about you. When you have a complaint you have to make a specific complaint about a specific behavior not some globalized attack on her character.

If you want her to listen to you, then maybe you should listen to her until she is finished speaking and then take your turn. Most likely she wasn't listening to you because you were constantly interupting her.

Then you say when it was her turn to listen to you, she got frustrated and hung up. Perhaps that's because you used more disrespectful judgements? Maybe your wife would be more understanding of you if you didn't assassinate her character.

BTW, when your wife is sick you do NOT ask her if she's going to cook either for herself and especially not for you. If she's sick, YOU offer to cook for HER. Anything else is completely selfish and thoughtless on your part.

You also haven't been paying much attention to your wife's feelings because if you were, you would have noticed that she's obviously clinically depressed. Instead of nagging her all the time, why don't you tell her to see her physician. The signs are so obvious. How can you be so clueless?

Just read a few more previous posts...

Immune boosting therapy?! Are you serious?! That will do NOTHING for depression. She needs medication. Anti-depressants work wonders. And stop nagging her about housework because she's too tired, too sleepy and her muscles hurt. And the reason it took her 18 months to do her resume is that depression ruins your concentration and gives you problems with your short-term memory. You need to be more understanding of the fact that this is an ILLNESS. She's not being lazy just to get out of housework. During a depression even taking a shower can be physically exhausting. When she sees her doctor, maybe you should go to so you can learn about what she's been going through. You seem very self-absorbed and she needs you to take care of her until she recovers. Make her an appointment ASAP.

D--

Consider posting in the Emotional Needs forum, there is much more traffic there and your entries will be less like a journal and more conversation.

The way I see it, you both have issues in this M. Not insurmountable, but they pose a challenge. It is admirable that you are taking the step to improve yourself, looking into MBers and other resources.

What happened? Her frustration leads me to believe she feels something unproductive was going on in the conversation, and her boundary was to remove herself (hanging up). What was so frustrating?

My wife is the victim of childhood abuse. People here "diagnosing" her is inappropriate. Calling me "clueless" is abusive, coming from a person whose other posts, at least to me, indicate a pattern of abuse.

My marriage is doing quite well, and yes, immune boosting actions, thoughts, foods, etc. have helped TREMENDOUSLY, thank you very much.