Posted originally on "Just Found Out"


Written Week of Mon 10JUL2005:
OVERALL:
Last weekend she looked at me and said "I need a break from you" after spending $160 of our money to get her hair colored and buy new clothes and underwear. Then she left Saturday and did not come back until Sunday, and said she was at C.'s but that nothing happened.
This weekend wife was leaving for the weekend to ostensibly go with coworkers to Atlantic City.
When I asked when I was going to see a bill for the cell phone, M. said that I won’t because she will pay it with work money, when the original deal was for us to pay for the minutes or something like that. Wonder why she doesn’t want me seeing who called who and when and for how long?
I am not supposed to call anybody with her on the trip because “they’re all about respect and I don’t want them to be involved in our petty personal stuff”. Like they’re some kind of Gods or something.
She wouldn’t give me the name of the hotel and the room number in case of emergency with the baby.
Every phone message from her had absolutely no background noise.
She has no receipts for anything.
When I mentioned about maybe taking the Mac card to AC wouldn’t be a great idea, she jumped on that opportunity (I think because she knows I can’t track her that way).

FRIDAY 08JUL2005:
M. leaves message on home machine that she is finally on the turnpike at 6 PM, when the original “plan” for AC was to leave “sometime in the middle of the afternoon”.
Called C. Fri 6-7 PM, left message to beep me.
Sent text to M. informing her of the baby’s whereabouts (at Grandma’s and Grandpa’s).
No response from C.
Went to a bar, played pool, drank a few beers.
Went to a convenience store to call C. again, when I call home to check messages, message from M. saying to please call her and tell her about what’s up with the baby (as if she never got the text message, which I know she did because I checked status until it said “Read” a few minutes later). I think she just wanted to be sure of where I was. Called her, asked her why is she bugging me when she made it very clear that she didn’t want me calling her checking up on her, now she is doing same to me. “Fine, I won’t call anymore”.
Still no response from C.
At this point I am thinking that C. is not beeping me because he told M. to do her own lying.
Drove towards the interstate intending to go to C.’s and see what the ****** is going on.
Turned back because:
1. If she is there and not fooling around, it will only infuriate her because of lack of trust.
2. If she is not there, C. may not appreciate the unexpected visit, M. will hear about it and I am screwed again.
3. If she is there and is fooling around, I couldn’t bear to know because I am a big idiot who mistreated his wife and probably deserves everything he gets.
4. I am emotionally drained and really just don’t want to deal with it.

Called her from the phone at the gas station by the interstate exit and told her I was going to up around a friend’s house.
M. later (on Sunday) says she called that same friend on Saturday, ostensibly to ask if I made it home alright (I think she was just making sure I didn’t go and “Rambo” her and C.).

SATURDAY 09JUL2005:
Sent text to M. at about 10 AM informing her that we were headed to see Clifford. One message on home phone a little later telling me that they are going out to lunch and that she and the chix are going to do something that afternoon.
A little after 9 pm the phone starts ringing at home.
I let the machine get it, no message.
This happens a few more times (as if to make sure I’m really not home), and then she starts trying to check the messages:
1. Why would she need to check the messages? She knows I will call her or text her on the phone.
2. The only reason I can see for her to check the messages is so she knows if I checked the messages and got hers from earlier that day.
3. When she finally figures out that I have changed the code, I hear her say “f***er” vehemently in her rage/hate voice.
4. She keeps calling back (like six times) and trying to get into the messages (I think so she can erase the evidence of her previous attempts because she knows she is ****** now).
5. She beeps me and also sends me a text message to call her.
6. Never does leave a voice message.

No way am I going to let her hear my voice because I know something isn’t right and I wouldn’t be able to hide it, so I text her again that the baby is alright and that I turned the machine down low and the phone ringer off so the baby could sleep.
I left the computer online all night, probably a mistake because it let her know that I was really at home.

SUNDAY 10JUL2005:
Doesn’t get home until 5 PM, when the original “plan” was to be home “sometime mid-afternoon”.
Has sunburn on right arm and right side of her face, where one would get burnt from riding in the passenger seat of a car with the window open.
Doesn’t want to talk, claiming “tired”. More distant than before she left on Friday. Really defensive about questions.
When I ask her “Look, if you were with C. and not fooling around and didn’t want to tell me because I flipped out last weekend, tell me now and I’ll move on, but if I find out about it later, I will be pissed”, she asks me why she should have to answer that and that after ten years she shouldn’t have to answer that. This is after she asks me if I want to ask her any questions about this weekend. Nice.
Still claiming “I didn’t fool around on you”. Starting to really not believe it, especially since the good underwear she wore on Friday were put back in her drawer this (Monday) morning. All the other underwear are still in the bag. The good pair still smelled like they were worn, but they had obviously been rinsed or something. Maybe she only wore them on the ride down and then changed into something else and figured they weren’t dirty enough to put in wash. Or maybe she is testing me, seeing if I am going through her ******. Doubt it.

Sunday night I came to bed and put a hand on her hip and she kept pushing me away.
Her general defensiveness and attitude are such that she could actually be fooling around on me, or I could just be crazy, or she could be just messing with my head. I just wish I knew which. I also wish I had never done or failed to do whatever caused this situation. If she ever does come around, I have to remember to treat her with respect, even if she is railing on me. At this point, I just want to smother her and she has made it quite clear that that won’t work.

Written Wed 03AUG:

Well, she f-ing did it. The one thing we said we’d never do to each other. She admitted it to me on afternoon of Sun 17JUL. I had called the insurance company to inquire about our benefits, and I guess I was using an old card, so the 1-800 number had a recording that said “Our records show that your benefits have been cancelled”! I went into the bedroom and told her about the insurance and she was being her usual nasty self with the headphones on and she flipped out on me and asked me why I dumped it on her all the time when things happened and all the usual over-reaction [censored], so I went into the next room to get away from her and she busted in yelling at me about stuff and then she screamed “You know what, I DID sleep around on you last weekend and it felt good to have somebody want me for me and not because I’m supposed to be whatever, a wife or mother, to somebody” or something like that. I just stood there breathless with my heart in my throat and wanted to die on the spot.

It’s not really a free-will confession, but I guess she knew in her heart she had to get it out and then was as good a time as any. I’ll take it. The suspicion is still killing me slowly after two weeks of knowing for sure and one week of being torn between knowing she was lying to me about stuff and wanting to believe her about the not-fooling-around part because of just having realized that she is the love of my life and I have been neglectful, if not downright mean to her when she was probably depressed about me and so the cycles go.

I wanted to leave after she told me (my plan was to drive around in the truck, maybe drink, or kill myself directly) but she made me “sit down here and we’re gonna hash this out”.

We did hold each other and cry and apologize and she said she felt horrible and couldn’t tell me and she thought I would take the baby from her forever and I said that’s what irrational people do and I would never do that, and I said I was sorry for being such a ******, and not realizing she needed help earlier and not listening to her when she was screaming and getting nasty with her instead of trying to help, et cetera. It did feel good, but why does it seem like I have more to apologize for when she was the one her who did “the one thing”?

Knowing is better, but it still hurts and I feel like I have a broken heart [insert sobs here]. I walk around in a daze all day, not really getting anything done, just thinking about her because she is a lot better now and she reminds me of the way she was when I fell in love with her. I hate to say it, but I think it is because of the Zoloft she has been taking since her scheduled annual. I had called ahead and warned them she was having problems because that’s what they told us to do at the baby classes we took when she was pregnant. The first day she took the first half of a ten day half-dose regimen (the day of her annual exam, Wed 20JUL2005), she came home, took a nap, and then started talking about “What do you want for dinner?” and acted all nice (if still a little cold and distant).

So now it’s weird because I didn’t think about myself for the first few weeks, just her and the baby and the house and yard, and now the feelings of resentment have popped up, but at the same time I want her so badly, but then I see her and C. in my mind’s eye all the time and it disgusts me and I don’t want her sometimes, and she is not helping me with this pain, I think partly because she is doped up and can’t feel this pain I have or any guilt on her part most of the time.

So I have the greatest conflict of my entire life going on in my heart/mind/soul/spirit:

A: I always said I would never put up with a woman that screwed around on me again, after ex #1 (twice) and ex #2 both did me wrong. Are these feelings of resentment OK to express to her? Won’t that take us backward instead of forward? What’s wrong with me that my women don’t like me after a while?

B: She’s my heart of hearts whom I’ve always loved and:
1. We have a kid now.
a. The baby is the greatest thing that ever happened to me and I don’t think I could bear to be away from her for any length of time – I would probably drink myself to death if I had to live without her.
2. I’ve always stood by her when it really mattered.
a. When her grandma died I was there, not at the funeral but when she came home and cried her eyes out, I was there at her place. Even though we had just gotten together, I sat on her bed and held her for what seemed like hours while she cried and I consoled her and I really felt like we made a connection.
b. When she got fired from her job (right after we found out she was pregnant, in I think Spring ’03), she came home blubbering and crying about “I’m sorry” and stuff and I just held her and told her it would be all right, that she would get another job, et cetera. I really don’t remember ever seriously going after her verbally because she lost that job, but I did get nasty when she didn’t work for a long time after the pregnancy, which I realize now was probably just a symptom of the depression she felt.
c. When she was pregnant, I treated her like a QUEEN. I always made sure she had everything she needed so she didn’t have to get up and down, we slept on the floor because her back hurt, she needed fluids and milk all the time, I tried to hold the house together a little bit, and I thought she was so blissfully happy and I was happy to be the man-slave for her.
d. At the birth of the baby, I stayed with her basically the whole time (I did guiltily slip out for a couple cigarettes), I tried to be the best expectant daddy I could, and I felt like I really pulled it off, acted like a man should, comforted his wife, brought her everything she needed, helped her go to the bathroom, rubbed her back a lot, didn’t make the joke about the extra stitch, et cetera.
e. When she got in the car wreck and I went to pick her up at the hospital, she was all like “I’m sorry” and blubbering and stuff again, and I just held her and told her I was just glad she was going to be OK, and I took her home and took care of her and the baby (maybe not perfectly, but I was trying).
f. Even when she was being really nasty to me and I had opportunities (I won’t say a lot) to do that to her, even though she was not giving me any sex for months at a time, I never could bring myself to do “the one thing” to her, because I remember the pain from before.
g. Are these the acts of a man who deserves to be told “I hate you”, “You never help me”, “I swear to God I’m gonna ditch you”, “You need to get a better job”, and then screwed around on?
3. We’ve shared so much over the years.
a. She was at my graduation from night school and stood by me the whole time I was away from her almost every night and only worked part time for two years to get there.
b. Stood by each other when two of our cats died while she was pregnant.
c. Sex/affection/intimacy:
i. When we first got together, I remember a time when we couldn’t keep our hands off of each other and the sex was long sessions of passionate, sometimes dirty sweaty sex where she gave me special kinds of sex to please me, but I know she liked it or she wouldn’t have done it, or sometimes we just laid on the waterbed and just kissed and petted, or just watched movies and hung out.
ii. At a wedding in ’02 (I think) we went back to the hotel early and had drunken mind-numbing monkey-sex that at least I will remember for the rest of my life. I could have sworn that night it pleased her to please me and I loved her all the more for it.
iii. At my class reunion in ’02 we went back to the hotel and really had a good time with each other bodies and pleased each other more than a few times, as I remember.
iv. After she got her teeth fixed I remember a few times she even tried to give me oral, because she knows it’s a thing I like, and I was figuratively and literally blown away and felt like a god that she would try something she always said was distasteful to her because she felt better about her teeth or whatever.

I guess I let sex get too repetitive or got greedy with it like I always do because I like it too much, and the porn didn’t help. I thought being honest and up front about it and the masturbation with her would help, but it didn’t. I would kill for a woman that was so horny she had to have sex or frig herself off a few times a day, but that’s not M. She actually told me once that she never has masturbated in her life.

Then she told me, this morning in fact, that she had thought I didn’t want her anymore because of all the porn. I in fact went to the porn ‘cause I wanted her so badly and I thought she didn’t want me anymore, and so the cycle goes.

I really want to help her break out of her sexual repression ‘cause I know for a fact that she desires at least an active sex life, and I have seen her become almost animalistic when the conditions are right. I know she doesn’t want to live a sexless life and I know she will let me in eventually, but right now I just ache so badly to be held or kissed or even stroked on the back of the head. She is trying to at least get comfortable with me sleeping in the bed and doesn’t shrink away from any form of touch, but I can’t get her to “kiss me like she means it” or anything beyond rubbing her back and neck and it hurts so badly I can’t hide it and then she asks me what’s wrong and I try not to tell her but then I do and she gets mad and we’re back to square one again.

Now I’m so anxious to fix all these wounds that I still feel, that it is weirding her out, in part I think because of the Zoloft and in part because she doesn’t want to feel anything because she just feels guilty about what she did, or she doesn’t want to remember the rage and hate from before, maybe. I dunno.

I do want to have sex/affection/intimacy with her and I’ve been trying to be decent about it but I feel like most of the time all she wants to do is sit and watch TV again and put her headphones on again. I think she thinks I want to have sex to satisfy me, but I really just want to be close to her and I told her I would return the favor for all the times she “helped me out” sexually. That was yesterday – no takers yet! Not even any interest in me sexually and I don’t understand when she says she’s not comfortable enough with herself yet for sex with me, and I say she was comfortable enough to have sex with C. and she hadn’t been together with him for ten years, and she says that wasn’t reality and this is. WTF is that supposed to mean? Were she and C. on another ethereal plane or what? Every time she tries to downplay the affair by saying it wasn’t really an affair, it wasn’t even like real sex, et cetera, it really galls me, even though I know she is trying to save my feelings.

So I guess I’ll just keep holding on, alone in love, waiting for my love to really come back in spirit. Hard to live with the body when the spirit isn’t there. All this is not her fault, matter of fact it’s probably more my fault, but knowing that doesn’t stop the intense pain of sexual betrayal.

Written Thu 04AUG2005:

Last night something really screwed with my head. I went down to a friend’s house for a little bit and when I was there I was going through the phonebook on the cell phone (which she had freely given me to take along) to get our home number and found a new contact in, listed as “A”. I had erased C.’s number from the phonebook the other day, and when I viewed the “A” contact, it was C.’s number. Red clouded my vision and instantly I was back to the day she told me about the affair. I called her, ostensibly to make sure she and the baby were OK (which was the original purpose of looking through the phonebook to call home), but I couldn’t resist asking her, “Can I ask you something without you getting mad?... Why would you put C.’s number back in the phonebook under ‘A’?” at which point she got defensive and said she doesn’t see why I should have messed with her phonebook, she isn’t calling C., et cetera. She also made me promise not to flip out on her when I got home last night or this morning. I did not say a word about it, just got home and acted like everything was OK (which it very well may be) and did the same this morning. What am I supposed to think here?

1. She is calling C. and that’s why she’s been so semi-happy; she is getting her emotional needs met from both ends, which I feel would hamstring all the progress we’ve made.

2. She isn’t calling C. but saw I had erased the contact in the phonebook and got pissed off and decided to put it back in, but why put it under “A” where it is real obvious and then hand me the phone?

3. She is trying to drive me over the edge so I’ll leave her and the baby and she gets the house or whatever.

If she is still contacting C. then what the ****** are we doing? I know he was her friend for years but she did agree not to have any contact with him. Even if she is just trying to save my feelings about it, it still counts as a lie and I thought we agreed to no more lies.

I still feel the love for her but last night made me think about making plans for divorce and custody, and now my trust in her has been shaken again, so it will be hard to act cheerful and supportive now. And I just recently started to feel almost normal again. Damn it!

--------------------
-- downGuy

bump back to the top

Wow, long post! Downguy, was a NC letter written and sent to OM? Have you read the book Surviving An Affair? Torn Assunder? Both good books recommended by many here. I would guess that contact never stopped or has resumed.

She is giving me the old "Why does everything have to be analyzed?", "Just wait and let things happen naturally", bla bla routine. I downloaded the "How to regain Respect and Forgiveness after an affair" article by Katie Coston but I don't think she is reading it. I gave it to her with a note saying "Please try to read this. If you don't want to, I'll understand." I don't want to upset her because then she starts saying things like "This isn't gonna work out, is it?" and stuff like that. Then I feel I am giving her a reason to step out on me again because I am making her relive it again or whatever.

Thanks for your support.

Read my above questions again. Right now if she is in contact or in withdrawl you cannot expect her to meet your needs. This about YOU changing whatever needs to be changed that YOU bring to the marriage.

No letter of no contact was written. I have not read those books but I basically read all the articles on the MarriageBuilders site about infidelity and emotional needs, the love bank.

She is not receptive to therapy or even self-analyzation, thinks we can work it out ourselves, it was only a one-night stand, doesn't want to rehash or relive it all the time, and I guess I can respect that. If she really is trying to get this guy out of her head, it won't help if I keep bringing it up, will it?

I guess I knew we had problems before the A, so I am changing the way I am and I am not sure if it's doing good or bad:
1. Knocked off the drinking and being surly and resentful of her because I got no sex.
2. Threw out the porn collection and promised not to be like that anymore. Sex is not porn, porn is not sex.
3. That first weekend she went away, when I'm pretty sure she didn't have a PA, at least, was a wake-up call for me and I tried to pull my head out of my [censored] that following week by taking care of absolutely everything, but she thought I was kissing her butt, being fake, just needed a mommy and was scared she'd leave, et cetera.
4. Stepped up to the plate and starting being a "man", paying the bills, going extra-nuts on the yardwork.
5. Also started working out, doing push-ups, crunches, even lifting a little iron to lose the extra 30 pounds I put on not caring for myself because I was depressed because I just thought she was a ****** and liked to fight and I didn't know she could be fixed so I had basically given up hope for my SF, which, sad to say, was all I cared about. Have lost 20 pounds so far and gained some shoulders and lost a lot of spare tire. I figure it can't hurt; hey, who knows, if a blue moon does strike and she wants to get amorous, at least she won't have to deal with the repugnant fat drunk sweaty guy. Also, I hate to say it, but if we do split it will be harder to deal with if I don't have a good self-image.

I know all of these things please her, and, on a good note, when I was weepy this morning and she asked why and I said that it was because I wanted her so bad and I knew she doesn't want me, she actually said that she wouldn't say she doesn't want me now, it's just that I was so ugly before. And I know moping around acting weepy is not helping, because she needs a man not a boy, so I am trying to choke it back, but then it builds up and I have to talk about it so here I am on the MarriageBuilders discussion board!

And I know I sound negative, but she has been trying a little, at least, and it's only been 4 weeks since the "one night stand" and just about three weeks from D-day, and I know from reading some posts that other people have way more serious problems here. Maybe I just need to hang in there and keep being super-dad and she'll see that I am serious about making this marriage work. Here's hoping that the human spirit (mine) is stronger than one would think, like they say.

I was such an [censored] before, treating her like a piece of meat, extorting sex from her, drinking and hanging out with my friends, one or two instances of minor physical confrontation (originating from both sides); I tried to tell her that all that stuff just might have indirectly stemmed from this depression which I feel she has had for years. She didn't get defensive, but you could see the wheels turning. She probably will think I am trying to blame all our problems on her again no matter what I say, but I pointed out that the past few weeks (since she started the medication) have been calm and we have worked together to accomplish things and had a few laughs together and even a little eye-flirting one night this week when we went outside to smoke cigarettes after the baby went to bed. It seems like she gets nervous sometimes and just talks about the baby or her work and that kinda weirds me out, makes me think something is still going on, but I am getting better at not wearing my heart on my sleeve.

Can someone translate the girlspeak phrase "I'm not comfortable enough with myself yet to have sex with you?" to ignorant male English? Is it an "Eww!" response because the A was recent (month ago) and she feels dirty? Is it just plain guilt? Is she afraid I will have sex with her and not like it and leave her? Am I just obsessed with sex and it's getting on her nerves?

I am choosing to think she is still in withdrawal and not still in contact, at least until I can prove it or it becomes obvious. She has been at work every day and at home every night. If I start to think otherwise, I am afraid I will turn back to the old patterns of resentment and spite, and then she will distance herself even more, et cetera. She has her meds; I have to do this with inner strength, and this whole thing has knocked the wind right out of my sails, so the inner strength is being pulled from reserve. All I know is now I think I sorta know what it feels like to be a female (no offense): I am SO sensitive to everything she says or does; I have lost control of the "man" ability not to cry -- he!!, even those "heartwarming" Hallmark commercials that we've all seen a thousand times make me weepy.

I am so sad in the morning and I think it has something to do with having to lay next to her all night thinking she doesn't want to touch me, wondering how she can get to sleep so easily, et cetera. Also, knocking off the porn habit may not sound like a big deal, but I guess I am a sex addict (I would like to be addicted to having sex with my wife instead of stupid pictures or whatever), and I don't really know any medical stuff, but I know for a fact that it's true that if you suddenly masturbate less, you will want sex with your wife more. A LOT MORE. LIKE, TRUST ME, A LOT MORE. Only problem is, she's not ready yet and it's driving me nuts. How do I tell her without seeming like all I want is SF for me? I want to show her that I can be a considerate lover like I was a long time ago. Now I sound like I have something to prove. Damn these conflicting emotions and damn testosterone for making me so horny and stupid!

How do I do that?

How?

It is possible she feels dirty from her A. It is also possible she is either in C or withdrawl. Be patient, I know it is hard to be but show her she is worth waiting for. Does she have a cell phone that you can check the call records of to verify she is in NC. Do you know who the OM is? You must pull yourself togehter. It is ok to tell her calmly without LB's or DJ's that you are hurt.

Have to run more later.

She has a cell phone that her work gave to her a few months before this all started. The bill goes to her employer, but she is in charge of the bills and will not show me the records. "Recent Calls" on the phone can be deleted, and I can't go around checking it all the time or she will think I don't trust her. I do check it sometimes because I can't stop myself. I haven't seen OM's number on the recent calls, but of course, they can be deleted. I said something about seeing a copy of the bill and the first time she said that she is too busy at work and I shouldn't make her do extra stuff. The second time I could tell that she knew she needs to show me that bill but she is still resistant. Also, she could use her desktop phone during the workday, or somebody else cell (she works at a cell phone company) or there are a million other ways she could still be in contact.

The OM is a mutual "friend" of ours who lives an hour and a half away. She knew him from before I did, he having scooped up on another WW that my wife was associated with. He spent ten years having his heart ripped out by this person and finally gave up the ghost. I worked with him on and off for a few years when my wife and I first got together back in '95. I know his track record and I knew it wasn't a good idea for my wife to hang out with him, and I told her so, but she said "He doesn't look at me like that", "We're just friends, you know that" et cetera. And I trusted her like a fool even though my heart and head said something was gonna happen. We're all adults here, right? Right. I had gone down to see him a few weeks previous to the A, and told him there were problems at home, like an idiot. She went down the next weekend and he probably pumped shi+ into her head about what I said and then the next weekend he shoots and scores. I just hope she can eventually see that he is not our friend and that he used her exactly like she hated being used by me, except he was smoother and more dishonest about it and she fell for it. I don't know what I'll say or do if confronted by him. I could call him at any time and leave a message, or he might even pick up. She had asked me right after D-Day if I was gonna call him and I said no, and she said good, because that would start another mess of problems. Hmmm... I wonder if he would be honest with me about contact or no contact or whether he would say they've been in contact all the time just to get her away from me?

Ok, since you know who OM is ask her to write him a NC letter that you read and approve and YOU mail. NC for both of you with this guy. click here to read WAT's quickstart guide for betrayed spouses. Get a copy of Surviving An Affair by Willard Harley or, if you are Christian, I like the book Torn Assunder by Dave Carder. Print out the emotional needs questionaire from this site and both of you fill it out. Start filling her top 5 EN's. It is great that you have stop the drinking, the port and got in shape. Keep it up and eventually she will believe these changes are for good. If you believe you have an SA problem I would highly recommend you get some IC or group therapy. Have you read the book Every Man's Battle? Excellent book and there is a workbook for it and some men's groups based on.

I don't know his address and I can't find it for free on the internet. I am considering paying a service fee to get it. She also claims she doesn't know the address and I believe her on that one because he does live on a dirt road that does not show on maps, and she was never good with road names or directions, mostly uses landmarks. He does not appear to have a registered land line, probably is unlisted. He may also just have a PO box; I don't remember seeing mailboxes at the end of the road or by his house. He probably does not own the property, so a public records search may not help either.

We could always text-message him but I think that is an extremely impersonal way to go about this extrememly personal communication. I'd want more of a kiss-off than a text-message that could be read or deleted by somebody else using his phone (his son comes to mind). See, I can think about somebody besides myself, and it's even the OM. Strange... 10 or 15 years ago I would not have rested until I confronted the OM, now it doesn't seem so important or maybe I am afraid it will damage my marriage or ego more to hear what he has to say about me and my wife. Maybe I am just older and maybe a little more mature than to think a confrontation with OM will help anything. Maybe.

Ordered "Surviving an Affair" and "Every Man's Battle". The EMB book looks kinda intimidating because I am not religious, but I read the reviews and synopsis and I think I can look past the "Christian" aspect, because what they were talking about sounded like just what I need. I did get into porn and masturbation as a teenager and lust does fill my heart. Also, my mom was a career woman and my entire family is a no-touch kind of family, so maybe I didn't have a healthy relationship with my mom or something like that. Whatever.

So last night we stayed up late and cleaned house and talked (light conversation) and stuff. She had me get the swiffer cloths and then she proceeded to dust the entire bedroom in her panties. Then she broke out old clothes from the closet and started trying them on. I know this wasn't an invitation to sex so I tried the "I will never look at a woman again with lust in my heart" thing and it works some. I can avert my gaze or close my eyes. It's just really difficult because as I have said before, she is looking and acting like her old self since starting the Zoloft, so she is that much more attractive to me. I will have to learn the difference between admiring her form and lusting after her.

FF, thanks for all your help. You have calmed me down so I don't act like an idiot and push her away. I know some of the details are sordid and since you are a Christian, I may have offended you with my manner of speech or attitudes, and I apologize for that. It just helps to get it out and be validated. Thanks again.

DG, you do not offend me. I may be a Christian but I am human too. BTW, I became a Christian only 5 years ago after a long, long struggle with sin and I still sin. We all do. EMB is Christian based but I do believe you will get a lot out of it. Lusting after your W is ok, DG. Just not other women including porn. You want your W to be the only one, KWIM? Glad the AD's are working for her. I will keep you in my prayers.

Downguy-

You seem kinda discombobulated, and I can relate to feeling that way....because I felt that way initially too, but you need to reign it in. Right now you're thrashing around in pain, and it's understandable, but it's counter productive.

Read Surviving An Affair, read his needs/her needs. Don't try to get her to play an active role in this just yet, you need to find out which of her emotional needs you were not filling before the affair, and work on filling those. Don't expect a positive response from her, or that she will in turn fill your needs, that probably won't happen for a while.

Don't think of marriage counseling just yet, I think she is still in contact with the OM, it sounds like it to me, because she is still being quite secretive about her cell phone, etc., and marriage counseling isn't going to help at this juncture, she will likely just lie to the counselor, and they can't help if you aren't truthful.

What cell phone company does she go through?? Does she access it online??? If not, you could conceivably start the online account and find out who she's been calling/receiving calls from. If you can do this...print it out and put it somewhere safe. (Don't tell her about how you found out she was still in contact, if you do, because you don't want to lose your source). Generally the only information that you need to access a cell phone account online are the phone number, the billing zip code and the last four of the person's social security number.

Stop moping/crying (around her), you are trying to show her that you can make her happy. So fill her emotional needs (Look at the list and make a guess), don't talk about your relationship, just concentrate on doing nice things for her and not looking for anything in return. It is Plan A time.....

Don't get your feelings all hurt everytime you think she is contacting the other man.......just assume she is, then you won't be shocked and shaken when you find these things out.

-Caren

It's a Nextel phone that her work gave to her. It's on a corporate plan or something. I got to the screen where I can keep track of the minutes used (for a 2000-minute plan), but to add a phone to her profile I need the Account Number. This particular aspect of snooping may in fact be illicit, so I am gonna knock that off for now.

I guess that's good advice about just assuming she is in contact, but it hurts, because she is sorta acting like nothing ever happened, claiming no contact, wants to be here, et cetera. Does anybody know if ADs (Zoloft) make it easier to lie to BS? Would it be a good idea for me to go on ADs so I don't keep acting like a kicked puppy every morning?

CarenMc, thanks for your response and I am trying to chill out. These emotions are so strong but I guess she will be of no help with this right now so I'll keep coming back here to chat with you fine folks.

That whole "don't talk about your relationship right now" thing will probably be the hardest, because I know we need to talk this out but she doesn't want to, so maybe that will fill one of her temporary ENs if I quit bugging her? She claims that she doesn't feel like she knows me and just wants to be friends first for a while and "get comfortable" again. Barf! I don't think you ladies understand just how much we men hate the "just be friends" speech! Especially after 10 yrs and a 2-year old baby have made us so much more than that.

How do I get her to fill out the EN questionnaire? She says stuff like "this is too much like homework" and "this isn't the way I want to work this out". When I asked her how she does want to work this out, she said "just relax and let things happen naturally" (barf) and the whole "can't we just be friends and get to know each other again" (double barf) thing. I guess she wants to be here or she wouldn't, but this laissez-faire attitude is annoying as heck. So I'll suck it up and just try to be the man she needs right now.

I guess part of my resentment is not just about the A, but also I guess I feel I'd been "sucking it up" during the last months before the A as she kicked me out of the bedroom and withdrew into her own little world. Now I understand how she felt when I didn't try to help her because I didn't understand what was going on, and later when I did try to help but she had already shut me out, and later still when I didn't care anymore because all she did was bi+ch about every little thing. I am amazed that something like this didn't happen earlier in our relationship, and I know I just pathetically failed at being her husband, so acting like I'm OK is really hard.

The guilt on my part and other emotions overcome me sometimes and I'll start staring off into the distance or at the floor and then she knows I'm upset and she'll ask me what's wrong. I tried to tell her that I'm dealing with it, and that she doesn't want to hear it, but then she presses me and I tell her and then she gets defensive and I get more upset. Should I just tell her that I'm just generally sad or upset, or tell her nothing at all, or actually tell her what specific imagery or train of thought was in my mind? I don't want to lie to her about anything; obviously more lies will not help, right?

Thanks.

You can tell her you are hurting, yes but no LB's or DJ's. Just straight out and yes she will get defensive cuz she knows what she did. DG, AD's may not be a bad idea for you right now. Talk to your doctor. Lie is out, introduce the radical honesty policy in your M. If she is not willing to do the ENQ, fill out for her to the best of your ability. Then start filling those top ENs. What you may want to do is print out some articles from this site and leave them out for her to read. No pressure at this point because I would assume at the very least she is either in C still or in withdrawl. Do fun things with your DD and invite WW to join in. If she doesn't then she gets to watch you living well, KWIM? Be the H she needs and I do believe she will come around eventually.

Thanks again.

I am home with the baby this week while WW works (8-5) 'cause the sitter is on vacation. That makes it hard 'cause it reminds me of the days of the A; same situation -- she's gone, house empty except for the baby, I'm bummed out (obviously not as badly as during the "one night stand" affair). Yes, already on the first day. I am not as bad today as I was last week when I signed on here for the first time (I didn't cry or mope this morning). After nap time I think my baby girl and I will go to park or something -- I gotta get outta here. During nap I think I will just distract myself with housework, maybe work out.

I have the phone number of some kind of counselor that the doctor gave to her at her annual (that of course she didn't call), and I asked her if it would be OK if I called, and she said it was OK. Should I call this person (who happens to be female) or just use my family doctor and have him refer me somewhere? I know some of the articles and posts said to make sure to get someone with experience in infidelity.

Also, one more point: she said she had an STD test at her annual. Is it OK for me to call to check results or whether or not the results were delivered or anything like that? Not sure of medical confidentiality rules regarding married couples or whatever.

DG, have YOU been tested for STD's? I believe both spouses should be tested. Also, did she give you written results? Her doctors office can't give you information because of privacy laws. Call your doctor, get tested for STD's and get a perscription for AD's as well as a referral for a good C.

Have a good time with your baby.