Don't be afraid to make her mad. WS' like t/b mad at or around the BS. Just learn to scoot out of the way when she throws her 'anger bombs'. LOL!!!

Learn to reverse babble and give her back her misery.

L.

dg, there is a saying around here "trust but verify". Don't feel bad about checking up on her you need to protect yourself and the baby. Please try to hang in there and as Bob said it is a "hero's gig".

You may want to check out Gramn's thread http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...35#Post2796196. He has a young child and a wife with a strong sense of entitlement too. Keep posting and come here when you need to vent instead of LBing to your W.

Yeah, I kinda pissed her off Saturday night. I got the mail at supper time and I finally got the insurance bill for her annual exam, with preg test and Chlamydia Test and a "GC" test. Told her I won't pay it until I see the results (I was irritated so it probably came across as a LB). She still claims that the results still have not arrived yet, I get to the mail before she does, et cetera. She got really mad, cooled down for supper, and then after we put the baby down and we went to bed she started talking about breaking up, she is tired of talking about my feelings, tired of me pushing the affection/SF stuff, I should just get the divorce, she will admit infidelity, I can try to take the baby, everything I do pisses her off, I am smothering her, snooping (I went through her purse looking for phone cards or whatever and I left it unzipped the other day), I should just trust her, this isn't gonna work, bla bla bla.

She asked me if I just want to start F-ing right now, and of course I said I don't want to F, I want to make love to her and show her that I can please her, make up for me being a pig about sex, et cetera. She's not really buying it yet, I don't think so anyway.

I had also told her earlier what "Surviving an Affair" said would/might happen if she doesn't take responsibilty and keeps telling me that I pushed her into it; the whole thing about retaliatory affairs and backsliding into the old ways. She of course took it as a threat, and told me to go ahead and do it, she doesn't care, et cetera. I am not to that point yet.

Of course, I just told her I don't think I'm gonna do that stuff, but that it is the logical conclusion, and I don't want a divorce or separation and that my committment is permanent.

Here's the really weird thing: After she blows up at me and I am not responding (reading my book), she just turns over and goes right to sleep. Like immediately. I read my book (Dune: House Atreides; excellent distraction material, BTW) for a while and when I turned off the light and pulled some blankets up over myself because the windows were open and it was getting a little chilly. Half-asleep, she says "Are you cold, honey?" and snuggles right up against me, spooning, from behind, even putting a hand on my shoulder and making the little sleepy-puppy-grunt-moan sounds. Then this morning we kissed with tongue, and again this evening before I had to go to work to finish a computer-lab setup for the first day of classes tomorrow. We had a good day today, I hardly mentioned our relationship or the affair and I painted some in the bathroom, we had dinner, a few laughs. The only thing about our relationship that I said today was to ask her if she's OK and if we're OK and she said yes.

At one point today, I was smiling at her and she asked me why I'm smiling and I said "It's better than this isn't it?" and I made the kicked-puppy-how-could-you-do-this-I-am-in-so-much-pain face, and she said "God, yes, anything's better than that" and we had a laugh.

I'm starting to think maybe she isn't still in contact, but that she really just can't face the guilt properly and is in a state of denial again because I have been pushing it.

Or she is in contact and is worthy of an Oscar award. She is getting genuinely aroused when we kiss, her hips undulate and she smiles and I kiss her neck and ears (without "mounting up") and even gnaw on her neck and ears a little because that's one thing I remember from the old, old, days that DOES arouse her. I am not touching her breasts or crotch, just rubbing her arms and running my hands up and down her sides, touching her hips, maybe a little lower-back/butt area. I asked her if I am imposing, and she said no, she likes it, just take it slow. I stop when she starts to balk or makes up some excuse (the baby's waking up, you gotta go to work, et cetera). She has this f-ed up idea about romantic love, that it's supposed to be spontaneous, that "love means never having to say you're sorry" shi+, you should love me for just being me, et cetera. Is she 39 or 14? You decide.

Please post comments!

Anybody know the cheapest most effective test for presence of semen?

Friday night after work we went to my parents house to get the baby back after two weeks without her. Wife was having baby-withdrawal and was obviously anxious to get her back (me too, but I have a lot of other shi+ on my mind). (Sidenote: It kinda irritates me when she gets home from work and walks right by me to kiss and love the baby, but whatever).

So anyway on the ride down I was driving and my obsessed mind just went haywire for some reason, and I started having a breakdown right next to her. I think it's because I suspect something is going on on Fridays. She starts to get mad, "tired of talking about your feelings", but then she offers to drive and tells me to break down, maybe that's what I need to do...

So I finally stop and let her drive and then (in semi-tears) I tell her how my neglect of her is the biggest regret of my life, the affair is the worst thing that ever happened to me. I try to remember all the bad things I did and tell her I regret each and every one of them, including the time a few weeks before the A when she was royally pissed at me and asked me what she had to do to get rid of me, and I answered "You're gonna hafta F around on me...", and the few times we got physically rough with each other, and that while she was hurting I was not there. I tell her that I am not looking for her to say "it's OK", but that I just need her to know how much I regret this stuff.

I also basically begged for more affection (NOT SF), just put your arm around me, but your hand on my neck, hold my hand, et cetera, and she did, at least while we got something to eat before we got to my parents' house.

I apologized for breaking down, dumping on her, et cetera, that I should go get some professional help. She said that all therapy is is talking it out. I said I did feel better for getting that shi+ off my chest, and she said "good".

But read my previous post for what happened Saturday and you'll see that me talking this shi+ out with her is probably not good.

Opinions?

DG,

So sorry for your pain. It is really, really tough.

You said:


Please stop beating yourself up about being in pain. It hurts. Its normal. Everyone here has been in immense pain at one time or another related to infidelity. You would not be normal if you didn't mourn. I know I cried all the time, at inopportune moments (like at work!).

What can you do to look after yourself better? I guess you have ideas. Sport, exercise, supportive friends, hobbies, meditation, good food, walking the dog, lots of sleep...
whatever is your thing and is not destructive (ie nothing to excess!)...please make sure you do them!
I spent about 6 months cooking and eating gourmet meals whenever I felt like it, going to the gym, having warm baths... it really helped at the time.

Seeing a counsellor is also a good idea. You don't have to wait for your WW. Just go by yourself. Its scary and uncomfortable at first, talkign to a stranger about intimate details of your life. After a while it feels more normal and helpful. They are trained professionals. They know what to ask.


Please don't do this again. Its a LB to beg for something. The other person does not give it to you freely - they are forced to and end up giving unwillingly. Then they resent it.

Its also not good for your self-respect. You need as much self-respect as you can get right now!
Have you got others in your life who can give you affection, either verbal reassurance or hugs? ie family or male friends... even having pets around can be a pick-me-up on a down day.

Please take care of yourself!

Just checking in on ya, DG. I have been caught up in my own turmoil and not able to keep up. Listen to smur, you are getting good advice.

So now the kissing with tongue has stopped. She just wants "eskimo" kisses and regular closed-mouth kisses. It seemed to coincide with me putting my marriage ring back on Monday morning (because I work at a college and all the students were returning Monday and they all know I am married and I don't even want to answer any stupid questions that may lead to something stupid).

Maybe she thinks I am rushing it, but I did not pressure her to put hers back on at all. I had previously said that in a few months I would re-propose, and she seemed agreeable to that.

Or it could be the old commitment-sway thing, back and forth between OM and me. I am keeping my cool, have not really been pushing affection. She still will not read anything about relationships or marriage. I have read SAA and HNHN and another book called "After the Affair". She is the person who thinks my needs are the same as hers, or she knows better and just doesn't care at this point.

A couple days this week I did not even ask for a kiss after she got home from work, and last night I just was sick of being depressed and started humming and singing like I don't have a care in the world. It seemed to actually help me, but then all of a sudden she asks me why I am so happy, like now she is slightly suspicious of me, but then she dropped it right away when I said "What, am I not allowed to be happy?" (calmly).

At night, she is still snuggling up to me, and she is not really pushing me off when I hold her or stroke her. She still calls me "baby" or "hon" or "sweetie", but then she talks to a lot of people like that, it's just her way.

I don't think she really understands how deep a need sex is for men (or she doesn't care). Maybe since she doesn't feel comfortable with it yet, she doesn't understand how I can be.

She said the other day "sex isn't gonna fix this; it might make you feel good but..."

I have been trying to meet her emotional needs for about two months now. I am more affectionate than I ever have been (which seems to frustrate her sometimes). I have been more responsible with household care and baby care and paying bills, et cetera. Since Monday, I have not really pressured her to talk about our relationship. I have been burying my resentment about the A and how she is acting now.

I am starting not to care, getting sick of being treated like a second-class citizen, and I was thinking the other day how nice it would be to start again with somebody new, no history, et cetera. But then I feel guilty (I don't know why) for even thinking that shi+. It's starting to seem like she is just trying to wait it out until I leave so she can get the baby, and I'm not sure that's not what I am doing now too.

I am getting good at acting, though. I have been smiling even when I hurt, and when I am visibly upset and she asks me "what's wrong?" I tell her it's work, or I don't feel well, because I know she doesn't want to hear it all over again. Sometimes I am not even sure why I am upset so it would impossible to verbalize anyway. I know we can't rehash this shi+ every day, or it will rip us apart.

I hope she doesn't misinterpret my backing off as a sign that I am screwing around. My parents are still married, I had no exposure to infidelity as a child. She on the other hand, had a horrible childhood:
1. Her mom walked out when she was 18 months old (for the man she is married to now).
2. Her dad was never really around and was killed in an auto accident when she was 10.
3. So she was raised by her paternal grandmother, who wound up with Alzheimer's disease by the time she was 13 or 14, so she wound up taking care of her grandmother until the family finally decided to put her in a home when she was about 18.

She still harbors bitter resentment towards her family and she is 39 years old.

DG, it is ok to tell her without LB's or DJ's that her actions are hurting you. Don't pretend it doesn't hurt. Sounds like you are doing a pretty good plan A now. Keep it up and keep putting your taker away for now. Putting your ring on shows your committment and that is good.

Sounds like your WW has some issues she needs to work through with an IC.

Remember this...if you are not there to put your DD to bed every night some OM likely will. How is that for motivation?

So it's been a while (about a month) since I've been posting; what with the school year starting again I am busy at work so no time to post.

I don't know if it's going better or worse. I thought I could do all this but it is taking its toll on me. I have gained about ten pounds back, not working out as much, and I drank to excess a few times lately. One time was really bad because I was feeling suspicious and nasty and I trashed her out, telling her I know there's something still going on, trying to exact remorse, and of course she got really defensive and it just got all wrong. Definite Love-Busting going on. I keep having these panic attacks where my chest feels cold and constricted and my hands tingle. I notice the smallest thing she says or does or the smallest nuance in her expressions and my gut reactions start to take over. I have tried the whole saying "STOP" in my head thing, and the take a deep breath thing, and the take notice of something nice around me thing, but it wears thin when everything reminds me of the A and how she could be stringing me along, and I start feeling like a victim. I have to go get some professional help, because even if she is still messing around, me hounding her without proof will not help, and if she is not, then I am really F-ing everything up then, aren't I? It's hard to keep snooping and hiding things from her when that is precisely the behaviour I don't want her doing.

The weird thing is that when things cool down and I apologize, she says it's OK, that I have a right to check up on her and have my suspicions. I tell her I know it's not OK 'cause it's gonna make her run away from me faster, but she claims it won't, that she is committed to the marriage, et cetera.

So I'll go a couple days crushing my emotions and acting cool, and once in a while the good stuff actually becomes heartfelt, but then periodically I crash and obsess about negative stuff, and then start questioning her about what time, where, who with, et cetera. Then she gets sick of it and snaps on me, and I of course get even more suspicious.

She still tells me that she isn't going anywhere, that there is nobody else. And yesterday I was eating too fast/much at dinner and she said that I better not get fat again. I asked why. "'Cause sooner or later you'll be rolling all over on top of me and the weight isn't pleasant." Lovely way to put it, but I guess I deserved that for how I was a pig about sex before.

I was actually thinking about retorting back something smartass like "Well maybe if you would try on top..." but I shut my damned mouth and stood there blank (I hope).

Then she said that she didn't mean it in a rude way, but that I get the idea.

WTF?

I'm done bitching now.

Welcome back, DG. I was worried about you. Ok, make a committment to yourself right now to stop the LB's. Checking up on her is not an LB and you should not be trusting her yet. Are you in MC yet? She sounds committed to the M. Are her actions matching her words? Are you on AD's? You may want to consider IC for yourself to help work through this stuff.

Tell me what kind of reading you have done lately?

No.



Hard to tell, as she minimizes communication with me. She is still coming home from work for lunch with me, still coming home after work and hanging out with me every evening. Babbles on about work and the people there. No SF yet (big surprise), but she is awful snuggly when we go to sleep.



I am GOING TO call my family doctor for an appointment, maybe a referral. Definitely want some ADs so I can stop obsessing and relax around her. Her beauty and physical and psychic presence blows me right out of the water and nothing comes out right, like a 14-year-old on his first date. I am so afraid of her because I've seen the "evil" that she can do/be and I am afraid she will do or is doing it again.



"After The Affair"
"Straight Talk About Betrayal"
"Surviving an Affair"
"His Needs, Her Needs"
"Break Free From The Affair" (web book)

Thanks FF for the quick follow-up on my post this morning. You are an invaluable resource to me.

Hope your life is going OK and that the "turmoil" has quieted.

BTW tomorrow 08OCT is 3-month "anniversary" of the PA that happened on 08JUL.

D-Day 3-month "anniversary" will be 17OCT.

Here's hoping the worst is over.

Is she willing? Get yourself a good pro M MC. Or better yet set up a session with the Harley's. The lin to the information is at the top of the page. These sound good. How long since NC? Could be still in withdrawl. How certain are you of NC? Excellent. Takes about 3 weeks to start feeling the effects so don't give up. DG, do you have a faith? If so find someone in your church to help you through this. True beauty is on the inside not the outside. Don't be fearful of evil if you have God in your life. How about reading some stuff just for you for a change? Take a break from the self help books and read something that makes you happy? I know how overwhelming it all gets. Take a time out for YOU.

I am doing ok. D is rolling along. WH and I getting along pretty well but life is changing. Thanks for asking. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have not pushed it about going to counseling. I asked her once or twice and she acted hesitant/resistant so I dropped it. I thought it would be the wrong thing to do -- create more resentment for making her do something she really doesn't want to do? Plus, if she is lying and still in contact, there is no point in mutal conseling, is there?

As far as NC - I still have no way to tell. She will not print out and bring home the cell phone bills or call lists. I have been watching the minute timer on her phone and comparing it to the recent calls list on the phone, but if one number calls her multiple times, it only comes up once in the recent calls list, with only the last call time recorded. Barring a couple 30-second or 1-minute discrepancies, I have not seen any calls except from her work mates who all have cell phones, or other businesses. I am getting numbers I don't recognize and looking them up on the internet. But of course, she works for a cell-phone distributor, so all bets are off, and her office phone is out of my hands then too, isn't it?

I also have been putting a tape recorder in her car before work and after we meet for lunch. No phone calls or conversations, nobody getting in vehicle. Mileage on her vehicle always works out close (It's about two miles round trip to work for her and I account for a little trip to store or bank or just probably driving around smoking the rest of her cigarette, steeling herself for coming home to me and what may wind up to be the Spanish Inquistion). No funny charges on our Mac/Check card. Her paycheck shows no funny business either - no strange deductions, I just deposit it every other week. I see her on IM every day from about an hour after she gets to work until about 10 minutes before she leaves (unless her "computer is down" as it has been since Thursday). I have been swabbing her panties since August when she "went cold" again, did one mass test and guess what -- no purple, so no semen, so that proves whatever it proves - no full blown bareback vaginal or anal sex at least, but of course, that leaves out oral or condoms. I have more of the reagent powder mix, saving swabs again for another mass test. I can't believe I'm doing this shi+ - we were so dumb and innocent and in love 9-10 years ago, that no matter what I never thought she would put me in this position of being detective, which I have to do to protect my self and family, while at the same time trying to muster up enough of a smile to be tolerable enough to be around. Like walking Occam's Razor.

And about her work: The day after the supposed PA, while WW was out of town and I had baby daughter, I ran into the woman who had my wife's job before my wife. This person told me about how both the married owners bang one of the office girls on the side and how everybody there is a "player". Of course, when I told my wife this I was informed that this person had been let go for embezzling 50 grand from the company, so of course there would be bad blood between them all.

So one of my greatest fears is that the PA really didn't happen with our mutual friend, but that she maybe used him as a ruse to throw me off the course and she is schlumping somebody at work, just wants the fog to continue, et cetera. With these fears in mind, would it be appropriate to call the alleged OM and talk to him? Have not talked to him since a couple weeks before the A (3+ months ago).

When on D-Day she confessed to the PA, it seemed so real (tears, sobs, et cetera) and I don't think she was lying, but one never does know... Or maybe she was liberated by that first PA and picked up with someone at work. This is the shi+ that drives me nuts!

I was reading some Dune (sci-fi) books but then even the love stories and betrayals in those books started to get me down. I wish I could objectify things, not see everything in the light of the A. Have you seen the new tooth-whitening product commercial that starts off with the dentist off-camera saying "You've been seeing somebody else, haven't you?" OMG this one kills me 'cause she is always watching TV and they have been playing it a lot lately. How could she be just sitting there listening to that and have no reaction to it if there was something going on? All the posts I've seen assure me that it could be that way. In which case I would have serious doubts about my continuing love for her, baby daughter or no baby daughter.

Not a religion fan, as far as faith goes. Church got boring when I was a kid and my parents did not force me to continue. I have always professed to be an atheist, considered organized religion almost blasphemous, although I curse like a catholic, and when I was most down during the week between PA and D-Day, I was walking with the baby D by a church and I did look up and think to myself, "Please, if there is a God, don't let her rip this family apart until I have a chance to try and fix it" -- totally in desperation. Hey, she IS still home, isn't she? One to chew on.

Trying to stay positive so she doesn't hate me or resent me for trying to make her feel guilty... It is so awkward sometimes to feel one way and act another. I'm trying to act like I want to feel, instead of how I do feel at that particular moment, because I know the resentment and hate I feel sometimes are only momentary, passing feelings, usually triggered by some detail that I maybe only noticed subconsciously, and that my love will remain when the negatives are gone. That's the kind of faith I have -- faith in my love and my capacity to forgive my "lost" spouse -- I just wish she could see that I do sorta understand some of the reasons why she tried to kill our marriage and that I want her to be happy, but that I need a wife, girlfriend and lover eventually or my life will be an empty shell.

If I confirm contact or another A, do I immediately go to plan B or start plan A over?

Please comment!

DG, has she been willing to do any reading? Maybe His Needs/Her needs? Work on the emotional needs questionaire? I guess I am looking for a positive sign she wants to work on the M. Yes, she is home that is good. And wow, you certainly have been busy with checking NC. I wouldn't obsess too much right now. Maybe sit back and just watch to see if her actions/words match up. No, I don't believe it is a coincidence that perhaps your prayer was answered.

Ok so now it has been 4 months since D-Day and still no sex. I am getting so desperate and I want her so bad but she is still adamant about no sex. I have brought it up to her every single way I can think of, nice, mean, sad, joking, every mood that strikes me. I have told her that she is bound to lose her marriage and her husband and her daughter if this keeps up but of course she took it as a threat, I tried to leave for a couple days so I can't keep railing on her, she doesn't want me to go, she can see I am in total pain but won't come to me. Every time I try to tell her how bad I feel about treating her the way I did before the A she doesn't wqant to hear it, she gets anxious/irritated whenever I say I'm sorry, keeps bringing up the past to justify her actions, keeps saying "actions speak louder than words" to me about saying "I Love You", but I guess "actions speak louder than words" doesn't apply to her about sex, all she ever says is that I need to relax and let it happen naturally but then it never does, says she won't be coerced into sex with me, says I am trying to brow-beat her into it. I came to her with my problem over and over again, I know she came to me before and I blew her off but look what happened when I did ignore her pleas for attention -- she went out and did that. I tried to explain this to her but everything I say sounds pathetic and selfish to her when I know we could be so beautiful together and I'm starting to feel like a such a pathetic loser I can't keep my cool anymore, and I have told her about sex being my most important emotional need and she really doesn't care and it makes me feel so horrible 'cause I know it's my fault and it's selfish of me to want her to let down her guard that much but this just effing hurts all the time, and she just calls me a big baby trying to get his way and I am sick of it. She won't read my emails or love letters, but says she wants to work on the "emotional" part of the relationship before the "physical" part of the relationship and it just sounds so empty and false to me.

What I hear is:

"You need to be my emotional Tampon, listen to me ****** for ten years about stupid little ******, you need to be there for me whenever any little thing goes wrong in my little world, but now I can't do the one thing that would make you happy. The one thing that would make this a little bit more bearable for both of us. The one thing we can do without fighting, bitching, or bickering."

and

"Your needs weren't important to me before the affair and they certainly aren't important now. Even though I hurt you I'm not willing to try one little bit to accomodate just one of your needs. I will make you feel uncomfortable in your own house just like you did to me. Except I will use sex to make you feel worse and worse about yourself until you either leave or disintegrate right in front of me so I can watch and laugh at you as you fall apart, you dirty ******, how dare you want me?"

It's like she's challenging the very core of my manhood and doen't understand that I am at the end of my rope. It's like she wants me to just friggin' lose it and flip out so she can be justified in saying I'm an [censored]. She wants to work on the emotional part of our relationship, but won't do any reading, saying "how could those people know about our relationship?", she won't read or respond to the emails or love letters I write for her, she won't even respond when I sing love songs for her. What am I supposed to think at this point besides "this is hopeless"?

So if I leave I am accused of abandoning her and the baby. If I stay in a marriage where I know I'm not getting what I need, isn't that a betrayal of self-worth? But then, I mean, what does it say about me that I was willing to lose my marriage because I wasn't getting any sex? I know there are more things to life and I know it's really shallow but SEX IS IMPORTANT. I feel like she has always used sex as a weapon and now this with-holding after the affair is like the salt being rubbed into the wound of the affair and I feel like it has to be intentional at this point and I feel like she is willing to let every day just slip away from us with no regret while she just watches TV and ignores me and my problems. And I'm supposed to just deal with this like it's no big deal when the whole problem in our relationship was that we were both sexually frustrated and both of us were too scared/childish/stubborn to really deal with it? She just sees that I was lazy or that she supported me when I went to school and she uses these things from the past to continue to justify her "position" and it sickens me 'cause everything she brings up was stuff I was doing because I was hurting too and she just can't seem to take any responsibility. She has said that she wasn't gonna tell me about the affair and that sickens me too, that the only reason she did tell me was to hurt me more. I am tired of her lack of dedication to our relationship and her way of pooh-poohing my feelings and telling me I need to grow up and get over it when I get upset. I have been railing on her and waking her up in the middle of the night to yell at her and I don't want to do it but I can't stop and it's making me think I really don't love her after all this time and maybe she is right and I am just an [censored]. I have been having violent fantasies about the other person and it really sucks 'cause he used to be a friend. I am starting to resent our daughter 'cause she is just another excuse for the wife to not have sex. Everything she does is to get out of pleasing me in any form.

I told her last week calmly that I needed sex in my marriage, and that I was ready to just say [censored] it and walk out because of it. So she got scared and promised me sex over the weekend. I dropped all references to it and was ultra-nice to her without expecting anything at any particular time, figured she had a whole weekend to come to me, why push it? So Saturday night before bed she says "do you have to sex me up tonight?" and I just said "no, the weekend's not over yet". So then Sunday night she waits until after 11:00 to turn off the TV, then says about too much pressure and could I just hold her, that that's what she needed. I really tried, I really did, to just hold her and keep my mouth shut but I had decided earlier in the day to not take my Zoloft 'cause I felt so happy she was gonna make my dreams come true and make everything OK. What an idiot I am. So of course I about had a breakdown and started crying and she tried to hold me and I tried to tell her not to listen to what I was saying, 'cause I was really inconsolable and one of the things I said was "why do you have to keep on hurting me like this" and then she got really pissed off and we didn't get any sleep and Monday morning I kept calling her at work and she finally had to come home and she tried to break up with me. She keeps saying I need to get over it, but she won't participate in any kind of sex life with me. She keeps saying she won't be coerced into it. I have come to her with this concern many times and she just turns a deaf ear, says about waiting until the time is right or whatever. What the ****** am I supposed to do? I feel like I can't be untrue to myself and my needs any longer -- all it does is make me hate her more -- and then I look at the baby and I can't imagine the type of person that would give up on his family 'cause his little pee-pee isn't getting what it wants and I feel so ultra-guilty for being so selfish. I'm basically stuck in a sexless marriage and it's probably my fault but I don't want this anymore. I've tried being romantic, being honest, backing off, being cold and distant, being nasty and mean and nothing works. She says she wants to work on the emotional part of our relationship and fall back in love, but she won't read my emails, doesn't appreciate the little things and cards I buy her, doesn't appreciate the changes I have made in my life for myself and my family, basically doesn't buy that any of it is real. I tried to explain to her about sex and men but she doesn't want to hear it. I feel like she is being so selfish and testing me to see if I "really love her" without sex and I'm sorry but it doesn't work like that after 10 years of being deprived of sex. She actually belittles me because I want her, like "you ******, how dare you want me?" All this doesn't exactly make me feel like a man, when that's what she said she wanted when she "decided to stay", a "man, not a child", so now she can't handle that a "man" has needs. I've told her I will treat her like a goddess and that I won't do any of those things which disgusted her in the past, I reassured her that I won't get complacent and stop being a better person afterwards, but she doesn't seem to buy it.

Feeling hopeless.

DG, I have been wondering about you...are you certain there is NC? I don't know 4 months is a long time with no SF. I didn't get an answer from you before about whether she is willing to do the ENQ or read His Needs/Her Needs or anything else recommended here. Is there any chance you could get her to come here? {{{DG}}}

Are you sure the A is over? What proof do you have?

FF, I guess we had the same question in mind.

Yes, it just seems like her unwillingness to work on the M or have SF are big red flags.