Yes, I am very suspicious of her actions too. Very suspicious!

Hi!

i have been on Zoloft my self, and i can tell you that you get a lower libido while your onit.

Just a thought!!

I can only tell you of my own experience. During R #1, the first few days were really good, and he was really trying. But within a little over a week, he started dragging his feet on MC, and complaining about feeling like a prisoner when he would VOLUNTARILY AND ON HIS OWN call in to report a change in his expected schedule. He wasn't as nasty as he had been before, but seemed a little off. I thought it would get better with time, and maybe just meant withdrawal.

SF was not an issue - hey, he's a guy - but looking back I am able to see that he was not trying very hard, and that it was because C had resumed.

Since we started a true R in June, he has been almost desperate to show me at every possible opportunity that he is being open, honest, and truthful, and that he is committed to our marriage. With the second R, he is the one who called to set up the MC appointment, and has faithfully gone with me each time. (Speaking of which, it's time to make another appt. First the MC suffered a loss in the family, then we had our own situation. It's time to get back to work now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

Whomever it might be, I think chances are good that you will find that some type of A is ongoing. Very few are able to break away and not slip back. Odds are that this is a large part of the problem. I also think that at whatever point you reach a true R, you will not recognize your W as the same woman. A spouse in R, once you are past withdrawal, will be hugely different in every way from a WS.

If you discover a renewed or new A, I would vote for a very short Plan A of just a few weeks, then Plan B. She should have seen many changes in you already, and you would just want a little time of no LB to leave a pleasant memory before going dark.

You definitely have cause for concern, but regardless of what is happening you are headed in the right direction. BTW, I would only consider you shallow about the SF thing if some accident had happened that left your wife unable to have sex, and you left because of that. Unwilling is a whole different matter.


I don't say this to encourage you to leave over it, but just to say that it is wrong, and must change, and that you are well justified in finding it to be a problem.

God is with you in this. All the best to you.

I suggest you do some investigation ASAP either by doing it yourself or by hiring a PI. Until you know what really is going, you are not in a position to act productively.

If there is no A, you need to go to MC ASAP. If there is an A, as I suspect, you need to do go to Plan B.

I notice you are thinking about leaving your child with your WW. I would suggest against it. If you leave your home and there is an A, your WW in short order will bring the OM to your home and have sex with him while you are paying child support and other household expenses. In any event, before you make any drastic move, check with us or an MC first.

Wow thanks for quick replies.

To be fair and at least try to defend her:

Before the A, I was a complete idiot and had no idea how badly I was hurting our marriage by drinking, using porn to masturbate, and generally being withdrawn from her.

I did extort sex from her (because I was so desperate?).

I did do sorta nasty things to her that she had asked me not to do -- playful spanking and talking dirty (again because of desperation and length of time [usually months] between SF leading to way too much porn and a weird idea in my head about how women are supposed to be).

She did make misguided attempts to please me which resulted in a whole lot of resentment when I continued to be a self-absorbed fool (she wasn't getting a return on her investment?).

I know I gave her an aversion to sex. Even her PA sex sucked (in a bad way), so she says.

I knew she hated porn but I stuck it in her face, thinking she would get the idea that our sex life wasn't enough for me.

I knew she only liked straight vaginal sex and I always pushed for more and different things, which probably freaked her out, some of the weird shi+ I've pulled she probably never even heard of before me (I have a varied and sundry sexual past with some real dynamo-nympho chix that actually did like porno-type sex and enjoyed being upfront about sex and weren't afraid to get what they want and weren't afraid to please a man because of some weird childish idea about "love" and white horses and princes and fireworks going off during orgasm and shi+).

I have been really hard on her lately, LB-ing almost every day, usually I freak out at about 2 or 3 am and wind up waking her up and she invariably wakes up pissed and then we fight and we get no sleep.

I did just threaten to leave or sell the house and yank her security blanket out from under her and I did threaten to take baby away from her (because I need sex - it just sounds selfish, I guess).

She was never easy to woo to bed in the first place and I always thought she had problems in the sex area -- the whole "only straight vaginal sex" thing, "oral sex is digusting", et cetera.

I still think you should do some investigating. No SF for so long is big red flag, whatever your shortcomings may have been before.

You have to cut down on the LBs. Use your time to do some investigation instead, so you know where you are at and what should be your best course of action. Do not assume she is not in contact, for you don't know. Your first order of business, then, is to find out what the facts are.

so that can be the couse fo no SF....

Yeah except I have no way to prove anything -- her cell phone bills go to her work and if she is messing around it has to be during work time or at work -- I pretty much know where she is all the rest of the time, we eat lunch together, we come home and take care of baby, then clean up and go to the bedroom to watch TV. Unless she is sneaking out at night after I'm asleep - which isn't much time at all since I am up most nights. I did put a tape recorder in her car for a while but didn't catch any phone conversations or unplanned stops. I have been watching the mileage and there are no big deviations in mileage.

Her cell phone is owned by her company, so messing with that thing could get me in trouble and I do not have resources for a PI, what's he gonna do, sit inside her work with her, bug a private phone, install spyware on a company-owned computer -- all that shi+ is illegal.

There is no money hemorrhage, I have been watching our account and her paychecks.

We can barely afford our bills as it is, so any "going dark" routine will be a permanent thing, I fear, simply because we would have to sell the house to both survive monetarily.

How do I tell my wife to get out of her home and leave her baby behind, just because I am unhappy, when she will have no choice but to run to the OM or family that lives too far away from her job? If the OM is her boss, then he would have enough money to keep her on the side (he throws money around like candy) but I guess that is the point of Plan B, to see if the OP is committed, right?

So my best short-term Plan B would be to stay at my office, I guess. That was my plan last week when I was ready to bug out.

I agree that no SF is a big red flag, but for what? She has cut me off for as long as almost a year during our relationship before the A, or maybe not cut me off intentionally, but showed no interest at all, and pushed me off when I tried, routinely for months at a time. She says it was because I was an [censored] and laid around too much, had too much fun with his friends (of course at her expense somehow) and the whole revisionist history thing, which I am probably guilty of too. But I always stayed committed to her even when she "cut me off", I just masturbated and withdrew further from her. I NEVER CONSIDERED F*CKING AROUND ON HER AND I STILL CAN'T REALLY BRING MYSELF TO THINK ABOUT IT. Does that kind of loyalty make me a prince or an idiot? I feel so dependent on her. It's really starting to bug me how I "built my world around" her. She's right about certain things when she snaps back at me like I suck at paying the bills and I suck at cleaning up after myself and I am absent-minded and forget stuff. But she knows I can take care of the kid by myself now (that probably threatens her more than makes her happy though), she knows I am trying to not F up so much, but she still takes almost every opportunity to run me down for events now and in the past, especially to as ammunition to use for the old "best defense is a good offense"/topic-change trick when I rail on her or ask her an uncomfortable question.

DG, I have a question. Is OM your wife's boss?

Second, it sounds like there may not be any PA (I don't know), but I think you should see a MC with your wife. It may be easier for your wife to accept the view of a third party than from you. I know you are strap for cash, but it will be money well spent. Last, given that your wife started to act like this while and after pregnancy, you may want to check into depression associated with giving birth.

Well, Downguy, I gotta admit bro, you should at least be commended on presenting "both sides" here.

I agree with the others....your WW is probably getting her "needs" fuflfilled somewhere else......INVESTIGATION is mandatory......as well as finding some IC for yourself. I don't discount your need to want to have Sex with your wife (4 months is a MAJOR RED FLAG)...but I think you will also need to explore some of your beliefs and views on Sexualf Fulfillment....I think quite possibly, you have "issues" that would be best addressed by someone more "expert" than us here.

Just my .02

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I take that back.

OM was ostensibly a mutual "friend" that she went to "visit" and things just "happened" and she swears it was only once, bla bla bla. But now I am not so sure that it was him to begin with, or maybe she just used him for a ruse to throw me off track, or maybe she was so "liberated" that she did have an affair with the mutual friend and is now with another OM.

I was fishing one night, talking bad about the schysters who own her place of employment, and she said "Well, he's got a ****** of a lot more money than you." And then one other time I was threatening to change the passwords and PIN numbers for our joint checking account and she said something to the effect of "if you think you're gonna control me with money you are sadly mistaken". Now, I could just be paranoid, but WTF is that if it ain't a red flag? Any other time she will knock them too, saying about how the $10k watch and the BMW are stupid and pretentious and how they wear funny shoes and stuff, but in that one instance she defended him (the one owner) and then quickly changed her tune. He was also the one who answered her phone and played shield for her, 'cause I was calling non-stop railing on her, telling me that she was in a meeting and even pretending to try and go get her. I don't know, but seems to me that people shouldn't interfere with other people's relationships, but I guess I was kinda making it impossible for her to work, so whatever...

Let me ask again, is OM your WW's boss? Do they work together?

I don't think so (OM her boss). Her original story was the OM was the mutual friend who lives 1.5 hrs away. But, I have been suspicious and paranoid about her work 'cause she doesn't want me just walking in at odd times, will not show me her cell phone bill that goes to her work, et cetera. So I am in the sticky position of having to decide whether or not to trust her on pretty much blind faith.

I have decided to really up the Plan A and treat her as well as I am able. She is being nice but then most cake-eaters are so blissful then, aren't they? Even if she is screwing around, she isn't screwing me, so I guess I can't catch anything. I'll just keep up the solo SF until she comes around out of withdrawal/conflict or gets sick of all the lying, or until the next chance I have to step out on her. I have stated my case over and over again, so I guess I would (wrongly) feel justified in getting a little strange. 17 JAN is the new end date for Plan A, to stop and re-evaluate. That date will be 6 months from D-day. Until then I plan to be superdad and superhusband, and if I would find out about anything more going on behind my back, I don't know what I would do at that point.

I don't want to screw around. I have been on both sides of this now and it just sucks altogether for everybody involved. But I have a feeling that if any reasonably-good-looking female approached me and said, "Hey, nice shoes; wanna f**k?" I would have a hard (no pun intended) time turning her away at this point. My life is pretty insulated so I don't get out much and everybody at work knows I am "damaged goods", so at least temptation isn't really in my face. But I do work at a small college so there is always good scenery. I am also not real "smooth with the ladies" (at least I don;t think of myself that way), so I don't just walk into stuff. I really don't have many female friends (probably because most women dislike me after they get to know me). These things give me a little protection from temptation, but I really feel like it's just a matter of time.

If she would try a little bit of SF with me I would feel so much better about all the dedication to the Plan A stuff. I told her I'm not asking for any particular favors or techniques, just to try it and see. Maybe she is scared she can't satisfy me 'cause I was such a perv about it before? ******, she won't even "make out" with her own husband? Oh well, it's still hero time, I guess...

I am home this week with baby again and have been cleaning and cooking so she basically doesn't have to lift a finger and I can tell she is happy about that; she probably thought I would withdraw into my depression and just sit around all day crying or whatever. I am starting to feel like the pain is lifting, but all it takes is for her to be like fifteen minutes late getting home or not at her desk phone for a couple minutes and I flip out again, so we'll see how I fare this time. I hate those panic attacks and waves of anger, depression and self-loathing.

DG, what are you doing when you panic or have waves of anger. Are you directing at or away from your WW? I would suggest going for a walk or a run. A good plan A means no LB's or DJ's.

Well, I am trying to not get angry with her but it is so hard. I did go to the doctor and get some AD medication (Zoloft). It was awesome for the first few days, maybe a week. I felt like myself again and I wasn't worried about what she was doing, where she was, or who she was with. But then another wave of depression hit me (for the life of me I have no idea what the trigger was) and the pills did not seem to help. I feel better this week, but she went off on me this morning, saying about how she is sick of pandering to my ego, that I'll never be a man, real men don't sit around depressed and crying, all I'm worried about is myself and my little d1ck, et cetera. All because she wanted some "alone time" in the bedroom with her headphones, and I took issue with it because I have been home with the baby all week (babysitter was off again), and I thought since this is Saturday that she could help out. All she did was get the baby up and give her her milk, and then it was back to bed. She really doesn't see herself as selfish, but she unknowingly makes selfish demands, love-busts, and makes disrepectful judgements about me a lot. Of course, she hasn't read anything or come to this site, so she doesn't really know about any of this stuff, so I try to cut her a break.

When I try to leave when I am angry she calls me a coward and reminds me about stuff that needs to be done around the house, like I am abandoning my responsibilities.

When I go to play my guitar when I am upset she does pretty much the same thing, accusing me of being selfish and only worrying about myself, being a big baby, bla bla bla.

At this point I feel like no one cares for me so I have to do things for myself (music, walks, working out) to keep myself from sliding into the pit of despair again.

I can't help the way I feel and I feel dishonest about hiding it, but she does not want to hear it at all, so I back off and stow my feelings and then it builds up for a while and then I lose it. I am going to check with my insurance company to see where I can go to get some kind of counseling (she agreed to see somebody too, but not with me).

I feel like I should have just separated from her on D-Day, because now I have been acting pathetic and weak and angry off and on for 4 months. I feel like I took her back too easily and handed her control of the reins again. I feel like I am not strong anough; nothing's ever gonna be good enough for her.

One of the biggest mistakes BSs make is taking their WSs too early without having the right conditions, like MC, in place.

Remember, you still have choices.

Alright, so now I've almost gotten arrested because I got rough with her in front of the baby and she called the cops, and my parents. I went to the doctor and he took me off Zoloft cold turkey. So then I am manic as ****** and can't slow down, and I try to drink a little to calm down at night and then I flip out. Friday night I flipped out and called the OM and left innocuous messages for him to call back (thinking of hunting him down), and of course he called back last night during dinner when I was just feeling normal again. It was weird - I wanted to grab the phone and confront him, but then what good would that do? Now she has an excuse for contact, dammit, because of me. The only thing keeping my a$$ on this planet is the baby. She (W) actually encouraged me to commit suicide because I railed on her for too long. I don't want to lose my family, so I promised not to drink at all for a while. I made an appointment with a Psychologist for Thursday 22DEC at 7 pm. I just hope I can make it until then. I just want this part of my life to be over. I am starting to think this marriage is not worth saving, but then I think about the baby. I am so stuck. She keeps calling me a big baby 'cause she thinks all I ever worry about is myself - probably right, but then she still thinks that the "one-night-stand" is no big deal too. She obviously does not understand how offended I am by the deceit. I am ready to effing kill someone here.

Maybe I am not "big" enough to forgive this [censored]. Maybe I am so petty that I can't let it go. I was so sure I could forgive her, but the way she has treated me (or the way I perceive it) since D-day has me hating her worse than before. Maybe my needs about sex and closeness are just selfish. At this point I do not care and I have had enough pain. I can't act like I'm not upset when I am. All this scrabbling around trying to meet her needs has me so resentful 'cause I get no SF. I think she perceives it as weak and pathetic, like "you only cared when you thought you would lose me, now this means nothing to me..."

So I try to be nice and do everything I can, and then a few days or a week go by and then I start thinking "why in the ****** am I doing this -- she won't come around" so then I get resentful and hateful and it's no wonder she won't try SF with me 'cause I am acting literally insane sometimes. Then I flip out and break stuff or she'll throw something at me and I'll shove her or whatever. This is getting out of hand but I can't leave because I'm afraid she'll claim legal abandonment on me. She called my parents and they said either I go home with them or Mom comes to stay at our house - so Mom came up Saturday and stayed until Sunday, when W decided it was no fun to live with mother-in-law and asked me to tell her it was OK and to go on home.

Of course, last night when OM called, she just had to pick up the cell phone and answer it. Couldn't just let him leave a voice message. At least she did it in front of me and didn't try to leave the room. Afterward she made me sit with her and took my hand and told me that she loves ME, and not to worry about it. Yeah right. So I woke up at 2 am and tried not to bug her, but of course she was primed for it and went on the offensive before I did -- I was so low I needed to see the baby, so I went silently into her bedroom and laid on her day bed and cried. Of course W had to break in and accuse me of dragging the baby into everything, so the baby woke up and I got blamed for that too - all while I am trying not to get in a car and drive into the nearest bridge abutment at whatever top speed I can get it up to.

WTF do I do now? Everything I do is wrong.

OK, DG you need to calm down and get a handle on your anger NOW! I'm glad you have an IC appt but I think you need to get into an anger managment course as well before it becomes court ordered. No more calling OM ok? Sit down and calmly apologize to your W for your outbursts. Go get the book Love Busters pronto and read it. Whenever you feel a rant coming on..come here instead of yelling at your W or considering suicide. You can rant, vent or whatever here ok?