SS,

I just read another boy scout died from being hit by lightening in Utah.

What a bad summer for accidents it has been...

All my boys headed out today for Colorado - it's hard not to worry, but I still feel it beats staying home and watching TV & playing video games.

I'll be back later and give you an update on our summer camp. I remember reading you're pretty busy right now anyway!

Having worked with scouts for so many years, I think it's just because there are so many boys out, in so many locations, it's just the law of averages.

That doesn't make it easy to deal with if it was MY BOY though. Or YOUR BOY.

Personally, I have no fear of death. I would miss them, but I know we will meet again.

You are right, it is better than TV, or video games. I spend less than 2 hours a month watching TV. Don't miss it either.

I might watch more if there were more good shows on. Pep, can't MR Pep do something about that?

Anyway, I was going to get on today and tell you that it is your turn first, but hadn't gotten to it yet. I want to hear the fulllllll story.

I keep the MB window open, and refresh the pages every so often, but haven't had time to type much.

Can't wait to hear your story. I may even tell some about my vacation one of these days.

I enjoyed reading about you knowing your mom was visiting. I am sure my grandmother was at my daughters wedding. You CAN feel it, can't you.

SS

I hope you sent your boys really prepared. I live in Colorado. Today has been wet and chilly. Tomorrow it might be in the 90's. It's they are up in the mountains (and probably are) it will be hot during the day and almost freezing at night. Even us Colorado natives find it hard to deal with.

As I write, my daughter has been up at a Girl Scout camp near Estes Park since Sunday. We packed for every contingency: clothes for cold weather, hot weather, a poncho, winter coat, extra socks and shoes, sunscreen and bug repellant. I feel really safe with her at camp. I'm a GS leader and know that safety comes first with the Girl Scouts. It's beyond be prepared. Almost anally.

My sons were Boy Scouts and I got a good chance to observe what went on. Perhaps it's changed but probably not. Personally, I think that men have different standards of safety than women. I've seen Boy Scouts and their leaders do a lot of crazy things. I don't think the whole organization is on top of it. For example, the last few times I've been to the airport, I've seen herds of boys and men in Boy Scout uniforms. That's nice. However, the Girl Scouts have a rule that we do not travel in uniform. They believe it might make the girls more of a target. Just a precaution. When I took my daughter to camp, it was almost a secret location. I followed the directions and about 3 miles off the highway, after a fork in the road, there was finally a sign for the camp. GS don't like to advertise that there's a whole mess of girls just up the road. In contrast, driving home, I noticed a regular road sign on the highway pointing to the Boy Scout camp.

I'm sure your boys will be fine. If you want weather updates or anything, just let me know.

I had my scout scare the day before mother's day - and I found out after they'd been found! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Two days before Mothers day, my son and his troop went on what was supposed to be a required 5 miler. It was raining when they left - had been raining for a month; so the trail unexpectedly had grass growing on it and they got lost - in the cold, the rain, the mud, and eventually the dark!

The leaders who were with them focused on prayer, and maps, etc. to teach these boys about finding their way to a "findable" place. They found an unfinished cabin for shelter as a result of prayers. And they hiked back to their starting point the next morning.

One of my coworkers is working the medical tent at the Jamboree where the Alaska scout leaders died. The next day they had a bunch of scouts with heat exhaution. He's apparently been busy.

How delightful to find other happy scout families!!

SS, I have many stories to tell - but first I want to thank you for your comments about "knowing your grandmother was with you at your daughter's wedding".

My mother died many years before my boys were born, but I feel her presence at times. I just have sisters - and I laugh ofter "with her" about the vast differences of raising boys vs girls.

It is ironic that my sister and I just have boys! My father doesn't know what to think at times. None of his grandsons want to do anything remotely like sitting still and coloring! Of course I realize that there are boys who do this, and there are girls who are boysterous (spl..hee hee!).

And honestly having had just sisters - just raising boys has helped me in my understanding of men. I am starting to realize that with many things, boys come preprogrammed the way they are, solving many mysteries to me!

Boy Scouts!

You're right of course - there are so many boys out there, doing activities that they are drawn to - there is an element of risk. In the case of lightening strikes - in these mountain climates the storms develop right above their heads at times - with little time to react. And with Boy Scouts in particular, they stress such great training in first aid and rescue. I have to tell you it made me proud to hear how the Sequoia boys responded to their situation. They carried off beautifully their trained response - such as sending 2 boys to run for 25 minutes for help after using their compass and map to find the nearest ranger station. And the rest of the group kept the other boy alive until help arrived.

The parents of the boy who died were inspiring. Our group had a close call earlier this summer. Clouds didn't appear overhead it seemed until the thunder/lightening cracked almost simultaneously - they felt the electricity in the air. Then they were hit by a hailstorm - fortunately there was an older Venture Scout group not far away, and they were able to take shelter under their tarp.

I'll post this and be back with more!

We have a dozen boys on a 130 mile bike ride this week. I couldn't go this time but I sure wish I had.

I worry a little less about them when I'm along, too.

I attended the National Jamboree at Valley Forge in 1964. I seem to remember someone died then, but I can't recall any details.

YIS

Boys certainly are different than girls. I have 4 brothers and 2 sons. My daughter certainly goes about things differently. However, at our family reunion in June, it was interesting to note than there is not one girly girl in our family.

Boys just do audacious, sometimes dangerous things. They seem to be hardwired that way. My own boys...pretty much men now, have done some 'way out there things in their time.

Now, there's nothing you can do when a lightening bolt comes out of the blue. It great the boys responded so well. Heat exhaustion can be a problem. At our Girl Scout camp, when it's hot each girl must have a water bottle with her and drink every 15 minutes. When it's hot, a wet bandanna around the neck is required.

I read a thing a while back that say many of the bad things that happen to kids are because they don't get the information and training they need from older kids. Back in the day, kids ran around the neighborhood in large packs. Although this still happens in my neighborhood, it's not the same for most kids. An older kid might say, if the ice creaks like this when you're walking on it, GET OFF. Another might advise, don't ride your bike through deep water or stay away from a fast stream. Or if the air is a certain way, feels electric (lightening) or is a certain color (tornado) take cover. Now kids are lucky if they are even let out. When they finally are, they don't have any of this collective wisdom to help them out. A lot of times, adults don't have it either.

Scouting is great for girls and boys!

Csue,

Thought I would join in and offer what SS said. Both of my sons were very active in Boy Scouts. Both went to the jamboree (the oldest went twice), the thing that is hard fathom is that there are roughly 40,000 scouts at the Jamboree, and an huge number of adult scouters plus army personel. It is a huge city, so it is not surprising that a few of them suffer heat exhaustion on really hot days given the miles they walk to get to events, food, ect.

I know when my oldest first went and I presume now, they had an huge number of coke machines all around the Jamboree, he said they were refilling them every HOUR, day and night. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> It was definitely hot.

It is a great organization and sure does help boys grow up. I have been on a lot of outings with the boys, and given the number of scouts and the level of activity, it is amazing there are not more situations (lightning being a major one) than there are.

Since I also have a daughter, I also confirm girls are definitely different from boys EVEN if they are like my D who was and is a very good athlete and played college sports as did her older brother. They just look and respond to things very differently.

My D did not care as much for GS as the boys Boy Scouts because she wanted much more activity and found it in sports. Nevertheless it is also a good program, but as someone mentioned the concerns and approach to things are very different.

I do hope that there are no more accidents this year, there have been too many already. My heart goes out to the families involved with all of those lost.

God Bless,

JL

I wanted 2 be a cub scout when I was a tike, but my folks had church those nights. I tried boy scouts when we lived in Ohio, but didn't like the "friends" from school in my prospective troop.

My W was an active GS as a kid, and became a troop leader when our daughter got in2 GS. I "joined" the council at the same time, so I could go along on Camporees and stuff, usually driving (though most of them didn't like riding in my old VW bus at 55mph without AC in the summer). I helped a whole herd of GSs get their astronomy merit badges.

-ol' 2long

For CSue: I just picked my daughter up at camp. She said that it's rained some every day but not too cold at night. There's a fire ban so no campfires. After a rainy day yesterday, it was in the mid 60's today and hazy. Seems like great weather for camp!

I'm going to respond to these posts - then I'll continue with my story! It feels warm and comfy having you all here -like sitting around a campfire after dark!

Grape Girl: Last summer our family vacationed at Rocky Mountain National Park...YIKES! I couldn't believe the weather conditions!! Amazing the range of temperatures, and how quickly the storms come up there. The arctic area, I can't remember what it's called was unbelieveable!

Did the missing park ranger finally show up? Apparently he was on patrol on some remote trails and failed to show up on time.

Our group is in Southern Colorado, in a place called Chicago Basin.they got there from Durango, on the Narrow Guage Train - stopping at one of the water stops. They began backpacking once off the train. There's one of your 14,000 foot peaks that they can climb if they're interested. It's a day hike from base camp.

I was a GS too. I never went to any camps in Colorado, but there was a great camp in Ten Sleep Wyoming, near Cody called National Center West. I hear it's not there anymore, which is too, too bad - it was awesome.

I understand what you mean about the gir's safety. We had a tragedy in our council district in the 1970's that changed everything as we knew it. It was much different for my sister who is 11 years younger than me, when she went to camp as a result.

If you hear weather in the Durango area let me know. My youngest son was homesick so my husband had him call me before he boarded the train. They got some rain last night, but nothing they weren't prepared for, thankfully!

KaylaAndy: what an adventure your group had! I am so impressed with the quality of your leadership to handle their situation so well. I would have loved to hear the post event briefing on that one. My youngest son still has his 5 miler to do. I think he'll get it on this trip

If I remember to tell it later - I have a story about my boys being lost a few years ago during Cub Scout Camp. My older son STILL talks about it - still processing it in his mind. Since the end result is that they found their way out - it's become an inspiration to our family. Mistakes & lucky breaks during their trip still go though our minds!

Sleepless: Did the Jamobree end up being a positive event has he said? I can't imagine the energy of that many boys all together. Since the Pentagon can't underwrite it anymore, I wonder if they'll move it to a cooler summer location?

Aph: 130 miler!! That's impressive. At this point my boys won't go on a trip without either my husband or I attending...which at their ages of 11 & 12 is fine with me!

I'll be back for more later!! Thanks!

Grape Girl,

I had forgotten where I learned this...you said, "When it's hot, a wet bandanna around the neck is required."

That is precisely what I did when I attended the Boy Scout resident camp. It was really hot - and that wet bandana is a lifesaver - I was the only one in the entire camp that wore one! Hee, hee!

JL,

Now that your boys are adults - can you speak to how scouting helped them become who they are? And if they have sons, will your boys encourage their boys to be scouts too?

Reason I ask is that my youngest son is a reluctant scout. My husband and I are doing everything we can to keep him interested, but it's been a struggle. It ties in with one of the reasons I like scouts best - you can participate at your own pace and it's open to everyone (well you have to believe in God and not be gay, but that's another discussion)!

In my younger son's case he has some emotional disabilities, and the Boy Scouts have an official publication that deals specifically how to help boys like my YS. It's premise is "Scouting For All". I am very grateful this exists.

Regarding the Jamboree - it is sort of beyond my comprehension what it must be like to have all that energy for that many boys & leaders.

The sisters of the boys in scouting are less enchanted by the GS troops here as well. They think our boys have much more fun than they do. But in my case growing up I belonged to a very active adventurous GS troop. I don't know what might have changed since those days...so long ago!

2long

Years from now hopefully you can participate in Boy Scouts with your grandsons!!! I am sure your GSs appreciated having you teach them the astronomy merit badge.

Now, on to my story for SS.

Resident Camp - we had 15 boys and 4 adults attend

This particular camp is one we've attended for the last 5 years as cub scouts. The staff is excellent at processing the boys through quickly so that they are on to fun before they start to get home sick.

So imagine my surprise when we hit an enormous delay shortly after we arrived. We kept being sent to different stations without processing. Story being that there was a sewer backup in the building (Dining Hall). A few hours passed - we were very confused and the staff wasn't saying much. It starting becoming clear when the emergency vehicles started arriving. There were a few different camps going on at this particular location including a high adventure camp - so I was worried a boy fell rock climbing etc.

Next thing, we were evacuated out of the parking lot to go behind a storage shed - a medical helicopter was landing...turns out that one of the scoutmasters from Texas had a heart attack. 2 members of his group were firemen/parametics and had brought all of their rescue gear. Even though they were right on the scene when it happened, the scoutmaster didn't make it. So very sad. We were stunned, and felt badly for his son who was there, and the rest of their group.

We didnt' tell our boys right away that he had died - because some of them were getting homesick. That night at the leaders meeting, the asst scoutmaster from the group stood up and gave the most inspiring speech - he talked about how long he had known this scoutmaster, and what a great leader he was - and that he believed so much in scouting that he died doing something important that he believed in. (his speech was much more than I can relate) but I think you know what I'm saying.

Well, we all felt grateful that the asst. scoutmaster had spoken - and he gave us permission to have a fun productive week, saying his scoutmaster wouldn't have wanted to ruin the week for everyone. I think I'll stop at this point and pick up later for the rest of the story.

CSue,

We were a bit chagrined to find our son's scout troop featured as "lost and found" on the evening news - must have been a slow day <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The tongue-in-cheek "Pray for our Scouts as they leave for their summer camp" announcement in church 3 weeks ago went something like this: Our scouts are headed to camp tomorrow morning. Would you all remember them in your prayers - and pray that they don't make the news!"

The boy scouts sound wonderful!!!

It's a terrible shame my 3 DDs can never enjoy Girl Scouts the way I did, growing up. Too much has changed, in ways I can never agree with or endorse. We tried it a few years back and were both seriously disappointed.

don't even get me started on the incredibly aggressive cookie-selling push they are on. It starts MONTHS before the cookies are even up for sale. What happened to the morals, experiences, sharing GS was supposed to impart? Now it's all business.

Sheesh.

Sorry for the rant!

CSue,

You asked
Well, the younger of the two is just going off to college so it may be too early to tell. Further, his experience in scouting was not his older brothers. It was good, but there was a different scout master and the troop was making some transitions. I suspect as he gets older, the Jamobree experince, the hiking, kayaking, fishing and such in Alaska on one of our trips will begin to affect him.

I will say the younger one (he is an Eagle scout) always felt he was in his brothers shadow a bit, so I don't think he will manifest the same affect his older brother did.

I am certain that both of them will get their sons into scouting when that time comes.

The older boy was very profoundly affected by Boy Scouts. While a good athlete (he earned a football scholarship to college)he did not have much confidence especially as a youngester in middle school. He was not a particularly good student (again a confidence thing) and he was socially very shy. He discovered the merit badges, and when I pointed out that many of them covered areas that he would see in school and that it was sort of a two for one in that he learned what somethings that helped him in school, he also got a merit badge out of it. He also loved the outings. He was in his element, because he was big for his age he could pace himself against the older scouts and use them as his model for what he wanted to do. He found he could succeed, advance, learn and have fun. Ultimately, he did all of the troop leadership positions, and then became very active in the order of the Arrow and oversaw about 30-40 troops in our area for that organization. He did all of this, kept his grades up, played 3 sports and went on to play college football.

But, now he is a general manager for a small company that is growing fast and what he realizes is that he was taught a lot of skills with regard to leadership, team building, and responsibility that have really helped him. He is just 25 now. One of the funnier things was that we live in a fairly well off community. He started working for this company part time while going to college. One day some carpentary needed to be done and he said he could do it and did...to code. Next the computers were acting up, so he took them apart and fixed them (I had taught him how to solder circuit boards for one of his electronics merit badges), next some plumbing needed to be done and he had learned in scouts how to do this. Finally, the owner of the company looked at him, and said "I didn't know boys from you (town) knew how to do anything practical." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My son just laughted.

In our troop we have a had more than a few scouts make eagle who had some development "issues". I think that is the neat part of the program, it can fit most if not all boys. It does take skilled and willing adult leaders, but the surprise to me was how many there truely are in these communities. It is just amazing to me.


Since I was advancement chairman for the troop (once the oldest made eagle) for many years I can say the level of success IS related to the interest of the parents. So you and your H are doing your son more good than you realize. I always encourage young boys to become in the merit badge process. We are lucky we live in a area where one can find in the district or nearby districts counselors for virtually ALL of the merit badges. What I would encourage you to do is see if you can get him interested in some that are loosely tied to his school work. That two-fer often attracts kids. Eventually, they realize that a lot of the merit badges have to do with what his going on around them and as they gain success in these things, their confidence grows. I hope your troop has a lot of activities, if so I hope your son will take advantage of them. It is a bit intimidating at first but as they gain confidence it becomes more and more fun.

Finally, there is the "wimp" factor. Fortunately, a lot of the boys around here in scouts are also active in other things such as sports. My sons senior year every boy on the O line was an eagle scout but one. On the whole time there were about 12-15 kids where were Eagles or became eagles by the time they were seniors. Oh and they were a championship team and 7 of those kids went on to play college ball.

I am firm believer in keeping them "too" busy than not.


Make sure your scout master and advancement chairman know about your son's issues. It helps as an adult to know who is where with regard to a variety of situations. I do hope your son finds it fun, but remember it is also boys running a lot of the activities and while they should be aware of the impact they can have on younger scouts sometimes they forget they are supposed to be more than boys, but leaders of boys as well. So give your scoutmaster a heads up.


The logistics are just astounding, that a 40-60 thousand person city can literally form over night. Both of my sons were just astounded, although when the older one went back for a second time he was more prepared for the magnitude of these things. He loved trading troop patches and has hundreds of them from all over the country and from scouts from other countries.


I know what you mean. Although we have had some amazingly active GS troops around here, the organzation is such that there is not continuity and I think that hurts GS. I don't fully understand the paradigm they were organized under with respect that their troops are so insular and come and go out of existence. I think it makes it difficult to pull together the experience that Boy Scouts does with regard to adults. Further, the gender issues are very real and as the father of a daughter I would be more concerned about camping and backpack trips for her than the boys. It might be sexism, but girls are more vulnerable is my way of looking at it, so some of the "fun" things are more risky for girls.

I do hope you son finds it rewarding. And you are right to let him go at his own pace. I have signed off on Eagle projects at 11:45 PM before a scout turned 18, and we have had scouts make Eagle at 13. To each his own.

Must go.

JL

I'm struggling to find a balance with Girl Scouts. For the past 6 years, I've been a troop leader. In the next couple weeks, my co-leader and I need to kick things off for the year. As our girls start middle school, we're trying to plan our path.

I have issues with the way GS are run. There IS a heavy emphasis on fundraising. We don't push cookies a lot but it's always there. We are part of a smaller but large in area, rural council and we just don't get the program other councils do. My troop is literally next door to the large metropolitan council. The metro troops have much more available to them. Plus, I am not too fond of the brownie, jr, cadette path they've laid for us.

BS is different in having big pack meetings monthly. (At least, they did when my boys where scouts.) It's a lot easier to organize things when the parents are right there. Although, every pack meeting I ever went to was manic.

I would love ideas about how to keep my girls involved with scouting.

JL,

You have given me some great ideas, THANKS!

You know I think back over the last several months since my YS crossed over to BS in February.

Since then he's been surfing sand dunes at White Sands National Park, white water rafting with some class #4 rapids, resident camp, and 2 backpacking trips....what's not to like, I ask??? It's just that he prefers solitary activities that doesn't require him to successfully work with peers.

Which is precisely why we especially like BS for him...he needs all the practice he can get! It is no secret to any of the adult leaders that he struggles - so I'm going to take your advice; and at the next SPL/Leadership meeting let them know what his struggles are, and ask for special help. That feels much better than saying nothing as we have all along. I think as you reminded me that since it is boy led, I should give the boys a chance to work with him practicing their leadership skills.

I also like tying in merit badges with school work. What a funny story you tell about your older son with his skills, impressing his boss. That's must have been very rewarding for your son to use his knowledge in this way. How gratifying!

You said it...leadership, teambuilding, responsibility - all can be experienced in BS and very helpful in applying them in adult situations. In my son's case he's not very successful with peers, yet he is highly articulate - so his mouth tends to get him in trouble because he can talk circles around not only kids his own age, but older ones too. I tell myself this will be a good attribute once he matures....but yes, he's going into middle school and I'm sure you REMEMBER that stage well!

I feel highly encouraged! Thank you!

KaylaAndy;

How funny,Eeeeeeeeeeee! The evening news! My husband and I have a favorite saying in our house which is "Boring is alright with us". We don't neeeeeeeeed excitement!

Grape;

You've been carrying a big load being GS leader for six years. I was Den Leader for my YS's CS den, and my husband was den leader for my OS's den - and now he's one of the Asst. Scout Masters for BS.

I'll ask some of my friends who have girls in GS to see if they have any ideas. Middle School age girls need to stay in scouts - IMHO.

Thanks for asking your friends about what ideas they might have about GS. My DD came back all fired up from camp and ready to stay in scouting. At this middle school age, I've got girls (and their parents) who want them to specialize more. They want to leave scouts behind. Sports is a big one.

I'm holding out carrots like doing our Silver Award with animals (they all love animals) and taking some progressively bigger trips. I've been working hard on having the girls do the planning. Some of them (and their parents) just can't deal with it. It seems to be that a lot of kids aren't really allowed to make many of their own decisions. In our neighborhood, parents have really high expectations and have a lot of control over their kids' lives. Some kids have something going every night of the week. With my DD, we strive for balance but are often busier than we need to be. How can anybody learn how to make good decisions if they can't ever make any?

I'm always looking for new activities to keep things fresh.