Hey everyone. If you have kept up with my posts you know my H moved out, sort of, about 3 weeks after ow's stbxh gave me the whole story of everything and everyone H has been doing for the past year. Before this point I was plan Aing. Don't really think I am doing Plan B right now because I think we both feel marriage is 100% done. As soon as he moved out the A resumed between him and ow. He said it would not but I guess when booty calls and someone is willing to give it up you go with it.

Now, my mother in law and sister in law are coming in from Alaska tomorrow. My MIL is beside herself with concern and hurt over her son's behaviour as this past few years is 100% out of character for him. He has gone from a loving caring man to a piece of trash. She has planned an "intervention" type scenerio between her and the church's pastor. She wants to try and get some answers and of course try to help her son. My H lies so much I do not know what state of mind he is in right now. I know at one time he was just using ow for sex and said as much to his friends, he would use her as long as she was stupid enough to be used. And she is young and very unstable herself thinking she is in love with H even after he has said these things about her. They have some very strange conversations according her that she finds perfectly normal. Ex. she told her stbxh that she and my h are using condoms and will until they are both tested to see if they have any diseases since they have both been sleeping around and if they do have anything they will get it taken care of. They both tell others, like their spouses, that they think the other is trash and yet they still hang out. So, I have no idea what kind of a relationship this is or if H's feelings towards ow have changed and now he wants a relationship with her. Mind you, he has not introduced our children to her as he told her he didn't want them getting attached to someone and that he wasn't going to have them meet all the different women he may see... Just some pretty messed up stuff.

So..... I think my MIL, in the back of her mind still believes our M can be saved.... Do I? I don't know. While this is going on I want nothing of him. He only took some things with him and has not even tried packing any of his things here.... Why? I don't know. Maybe in his mind he thinks he will be returning home at some point. So I have been packing it and told him it would be in the basement and if he didn't want it all to get musty he better come and get it. Also, no papers have even been served or signed yet. We are still very married. I have sep. papers being drawn up but they are not done yet.

How much should I be a part of this "intervention" my MIL is going to have? Should I even be there at all? I know underneath it all I do love my H and am devastated it is over. I do care about and hurt over this life of trash he is living. But I think it is probably too late for anything in our marriage because it would require,for me, for us to move out of this town and get help and start fresh. I guess I don't see it being saved because I don't think H wants it saved but he is just so messed up and has been for a few years now. I just don't know what to do or how involved in this I should be. Please, some input here would be good. mlhb

I am also wondering if I should do a Plan B letter to give to him at this time? Since she is doing an "intervention" type thing I wonder if I should, in any last hope of anything possible, should do this letter? I have gone the gamit of emotions as we all do here but I know deep in my heart I hate to see my family torn apart like this. Plan B letter too or no??? mlhb

No advice hon, I suck at Plan B....how long have you been plan Aing?????

I don't know if you should be part of the intervention, but it's really cool that your MIL feels that way and is taking it upon herself to try to help......most MIL's will just care about their childs *happiness* (Which to me is a cop out).

Good luck hon,

-Caren

I think it is waaayyyyyy to early for a Plan B letter. Also I don't know if I would be around for the intervention. But I do give you MIL a lot of credit. Many, many families stay out of it, and just want the WS to "be happy".

Believer, why do you think it is too early for a plan b letter? He has moved out and is in the middle of the affair again now. what good will plan a do me at this point honestly? I pretty much told him he needed to leave because he obviously could not live honestly under our roof. Just curious what you then advise? mlhb

How long have you done Plan A? How upset are you when he is around?

I did Plan A for about a month, mostly with the making the changes that needed to be made, etc. I am actually still doing that part because the changes I have made are for me too, changes that needed to be made. I was working on not LBing and trying to fill his lovebank with deposits. He did answer my questions about what his emotional needs were. (funny, said sex was only about a 5 but he sure is getting it as much as he can now... maybe sex is only a 5 or 6 if he is in a meaningful relationship). But then ow's stbxh came to my house and told me all the lies my h has been telling and how he has been with numerous women in the past year and the extent the A was with his spouse and mine. Basically, my H had been lying his butt off. He had had contact with OW since getting back from his training (when he had been gone for 4 months, and believe there may have been some sex going on there too with other women) and I realized I just couldn't believe a word out of his mouth any longer. We had a long talk and he said he had noticed the changes I was making and the effort I was putting forth but he felt it was too much too late. Within a week of us agreeing he should leave he was right back into OW's arms even though she said she wanted nothing to do with him. She is the same kind of liar my H is. Would he still have seen her if he had not left here? I think yes because once she moved out of her marital home she had an apartment and so access was easier.

Like I said, I have still been working wholeheartedly on me. Some things have slacked some and he probably notices when he comes over, like the housework and such but I have been gone a lot helping care for my grandmother who just passed away and trying to get all of H's things packed up and put somewhere in the house, so it is kind of torn apart right now. (he only took with him a few things and has never in the past 3 weeks even been here trying to pack things up) I just cannot handle looking at them any longer.

I have LB'd a few times since he has been gone because I am/was so hurt and angry and disgusted and felt like it was 100% over for ever and ever. So I had stopped doing anything that looked like work on the marriage. Then OW's H and I who have gotten to be friends got out of hand one night and slept together. Not sure why except that we share the bond of the same pain and it happened. We spoke the next morning and said we shouldn't have done that and it won't happen again. Threw me for an emotional ride because my H and I have had no sf for 2 years. (he slept on couch). So, I was very emotional about it for several days after because I cannot just have sf, I make love if that makes since. So, OW's stbxh and I have stayed clear of eachother for 2 weeks or so until we spoke on the phone the other night about the relationship starting up again between my H and his stbxw.

Then yesterday I was sarcastic with H on the phone about ow after having to tell him that when he has the kids over night I won't tolerate him waiting til they are asleep, getting some one to watch them, and sneeking out for late night booty call.

But, as the weeks go by and I get myself together it is still hard for me to see this as a permanent arrangement. Especially with his family coming to try and intervene on his self destrctive behavior. H would probably never agree anytime soon to do what needs to be done to save our marriage. I do not know what kind of fog he is in right now honestly. He is either really starting to fall for ow or he is blowing some good smoke up her a^^ because she thinks they are all hunky dory and in love and blah blah blah. She told her soon to be ex that she would make sure my H didn't cheat on her because she was going to have sf with him 2 and 3 times a day to make sure he wouldn't want it anywhere else. This is the basis of a great relationship? I hate to tell her that up until a few years ago my h and I had a great sf life but that didn't stop the problems or infidelity. She still calls her stbxh and he still calls her and she gives him all the details he wants of her relationship with my H. I think they are all just playing one sick game.

So given all of that in a nutshell, I just do not know what to do anymore. I don't feel I can talk to my H because he just lies anyway. It is painful to have him around because of what he is doing and how he is living. His mom wants our marriage to be saved if at all possible. She is very spiritual and prays on this a lot. That is why she is involving the pastor in this whole thing. And she is a marriage success after my FIL had an affair about 8 years ago. So she knows this whole deal. I don't know if I am Plan A still, go to Plan B, or just forget about the whole thing! I just felt Plan B because he is moved out, I am packing his things, I have not pressured him at all, totally letting him do his thing, etc. I do not want him around until and unless he is ready for marriage talks. Part of me would like to sell the house and just start fresh elsewhere. please, anyone and everyone, advise me here. My MIL will be here tomorrow night... mlhb

How are you financially? Do you have some sort of support agreement?

Wow....I didn't realize that you'd slept with the OW's stbx, that certainly complicates things.

You have to decide if you want this marriage or not, I mean you're here, so you must not think that's it's 100% over.

I guess that's where it stands, if you want you marriage, you need to plan A......you can plan A even though your husband is still seeing the OW, actually that's generally the case. I know that my H's *A* was in full swing when I was Plan Aing....I knew that he was still seeing her, but I never questioned it, I just kept meeting his needs in spite of it. I think that's actually what it's all about.

I was great in plan A, plan B failed miserably and therefore I was in false recovery for the last 4ish months, and now my H wants a divorce. (Even though the A is over)

You have to play this just right, if you do want to save the Marriage. I still don't know how to advise you on the intervention. Perhaps you could ask for your MIL's input on whether or not you should be present.

Maybe if you weren't there your WH would see that his family is acting independently of you, that they weren't coherced, that they are there of their own accord, and that his *A* isn't just distasteful to you...but to his other loved ones.

Maybe it will get him thinking......

-Caren

Caren: yeah, I guess "wow" is the word for it. My H does not know nor does his stbxw know that we did that. It was 150% out of character for me. And for him. He is one of the nicest men I know and not like that. But we are both going through such a tough tough time. He is going through it much worse than I am. He is broken and devastated and angry and wanting revenge. He is young too, I think around 25 as is she. Like I said, I don't know why it happened, it just did. we got to flirting and paying eachother attention as we had not gotten for so long, both hurting, both feeling like discarded trash by our spouses. Bottom line is is shouldn't have happened. I am almost tempted to introduce him to this board as he is really really struggling, trying to find another relationship right away becauase I think he wants to try and hurt his stbxw as much as she has hurt him, but I told him he is only gonna hurt himself and the innocent person he chooses to date or be with because he is doing it for the wrong reasons. I think I will choose not to be at the intervention. I am praying my H will at least hear his family out and not walk out on the intervention. I am also going to suggest that they offer him a trip to visit them in Alaska. H is taking vacation the last week of August and he and the kids could go up there for a week. They live in a very small village so it would definitely be some time away. Now, I do not know why H is taking this vaca at end of august unless ow is off too or something, this I do not know. But I am gonna tell his mom all this and have her make the offer. They then could have him out of his environment as well to talk. I will read up more on plan A I guess... I just never see him accept to drop off kids to him or for him to bring them back. Can't meet needs if he is never around. And he doesn't seem to want to be around either. When he is he talks down to me, like the other day he was talking to me like I was an idiot or something. He just doesn't even seem interested in talking to me at all.

Believer: Yes, H and I have a finacial arrangement while he is not living here. He is paying the mortgage and car insurances. He is living with family friends until he gets back from his stint in Iraq - leaves january and gets back in May or so..... he is air national guard, one weekend a month thing.

mlhb

caren, are you divorced now?? what do you mean "false recoveries?" during plan B... and was your H living at home when you were doing Plan A or not? mlhb

No, I'm not divorced yet, my husband filed for divorce, and then changed it to a dissolution....that's where we are right now, we are currently living together, so the dissolution cannot proceed, but that's just geography, I am planning to move out shortly, and I will again be in plan B.

We were separated when I was plan Aing, and it worked pretty well....you just have to sneak little nice things in, they notice, even if they don't say anything. I always made sure I looked drop dead gorgeous everytime I saw him....and he did notice. Plan A went great. I couldn't stick to plan B, and I ended up forcing his hand by getting evicted from my apartment, so we've been back together, and the OW has been out of the picture for about 4 months, but he still sees her, as she works close to him......they don't talk, she thinks he's an A-hole....he was lying to her the entire time.....he told her I didn't wanna be with him anymore...etc. So we've been back together, and not really in recovery....that's why I say false recovery...nothing is being fixed.

I wish for better for you.

-Caren

see, my H would never have paid for a separation or divorce. I just cannot read him at all. You cannot help but notice the changes I have made, I am out walking every night for an hour and have lost close to 50 pounds so far. (I hate to say that during our 2 toughest years I was in such depression it was all I could do to get through the day and gained close to 100 pounds.) I know my radical change in my appearance and my lack of caring those 2 years did not help marriage at all. But I quit smoking in January, I now excercise up to 2 hours a day. I got a new hair style and color and go tanning. Others have noticed so I know he must too. When I am at my best and at my normal weight I am a very attractive woman who always looks nice. I just got out of step for a few years because I was so down with H sleeping on couch and our marriage going south fast. I explained all this to H before. So he does notice the changes.

Should I just give him a "letter" not a plan B letter stating that I do still love him and would still be willing to work on our marriage but not until he is completely ready to and away from all OW and all sf relationships outside the marriage? Say that I know I have said some things in the past few weeks out of frustration and anger that I probably should not have said. Say that I am continuing to read and learn as I still want to be the best person I can be. Say that we share 10 years and 2 beautiful children and that it just seems like such a waste to me to throw that all away?

See, I don't know what kind of "relatioship" he has with ow. I know at one time it was just sf and H has said he is not proud of being with her what he has done but he is doing it again. She is definitely mentally unstable. But our marriage has sure had moments where we have hurt eachother pretty severely. I hate to give him such a letter than have him and ow look at it and just laugh ya know? But I thought with MIL and SIL coming to talk to him it would be a good time to give him a letter such as that. Just to keep him thinking. Maybe in it put some of the good memories we share. We always seem to dwell on the bad.

I don't know everyone. I feel unique and that my situation is just completely and udderly hopeless. But I am sure others have felt that way too and have recovered. He just has no desire to have our marriage. Or me. From what he has said before. Hope is mom and sister can get some answers out of him. mlhb

It's hard to say how your MIL's planned intervention will go, but even if he doesn't stick around and listen to it all, he'll absorb some of it, and at least know that his family IS NOT backing this decision.

You're really lucky, as we've said before, most parents would bow out and not want to be involved.....

I don't think that your marriage is over, it's just that no pressure has been applied to it to end it. This relationship is built on lies, and the pain of other people....it is doomed whether you two make it or not.....so feel secure in that....IT WILL NOT LAST.

Refer the OW's husband here, it would help him, and he can learn the strategies that you are learning, and may be able to apply pressure from his end.

With all these forces working against them, these 2 lovebirds don't have a chance.

-Caren

Oh, I agree that this "relationship" is doomed. She still calls her H everyday to tell him everything she is doing with my H which I think is pretty sick. Of course her H is calling him too. She is very immature from what I have seen of her actions and very indecisive. I think she wants a lot more from my H than she is gonna get. I feel badly because I said some things to my H that I probably shouldn't have but I was real angry. I told him I was so happy he had finally found the love of his life and that it was too bad he had to destroy 2 families to do it and to thank the ow for me for taking him off of my hands! Guess not very nice and some major LB's..... I have written him the letter and am going to have my MIL give it to him for me when they have their "talk". I think I may go to my moms for a few days so H and his family can have the time together without me around.

I just don't know.... I feel like my H will never again come around. He acts like he hates me. He has told me time and again he doesn't want to spend anytime with me or be with me physically. I do not know where that comes from. It's only been like that the last 2 years. Have other ws said these things to their bs but they still recovered? mlhb

I can't answer the .......and still recovered question. But the things he is saying are normal....very hurtful, but normal.

Your hostile words towards him are understandable, but you need to try to get that stuff in check <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> You need to make sure that your WH knows that you are a safe option, LB's and disrespectful judgements don't make them feel that way.

I know that this all feels like spinning your wheels....believe me, I've been there. But if you want to try to save your marriage......or at least to feel like you've done everything humanly possible to save it before giving up, then start trying to meet those EN's....he doesn't have to openly act like he wants you to, or even act appreciative, identify the needs and try to fill them as best you can.

I think you have a good opportunity here, especially since his Mom is on your side, and is going to talk to him.....it will at the very least make him think, and then if you start Plan Aing him in conjunction with him thinking about what his Mom is saying, it just might work.

I think you have a decent shot here hon.....if you've decided that's what you want to do.

What did the letter you sent with his Mom say??? If you don't mind my asking.

-Caren

P.S.- Another suggestion....GET THE OW's H here.....get him the correct tools to work on busting up this affair from his end........it will help him, and could very well ultimately help you.

I have directed ow's h to this site but he tells me he no longer has a computer so he has to use someone else's when he gets the chance.

my MIL was just here talking to me alone. she says she just doesn't know what is going to happen. she will try to talk with him the best she can. she said when they talked to him a year or two ago my h just told them he had no feelings for me at all anymore. so he has lived here for the past 2 years with no feelings for me? why? how do you go from loving someone enough to marry and have kids with them to having no feelings at all? i just don't get it.

the letter i am giving him is kind of a plan B letter while i am still doing the actions of plan A. It stated some of our good memories, i stated that i had exposed his A to anyone and everyone who didn't already know, i stated some things about the ow that she has said about him,that she still talks with her h everyday and tells him all their "details", what she has done, etc, i stated that i loved him still and was and am working very hard and truly now that i have the right tools felt i could be a wife he would want and be proud of but that until he could give up his lifestyle of ow, etc, i wanted no further contact with him unless it concerned finances or the kids. i told him i am all ears when and if he is ever ready to have his family back and to work on us 100% and give me the chance to be the best wife i can be. he also goes to iraq in january so i told him some things like he was the first true love of my life, that i was so sorry for all the pain we have caused eachother, and that i had hoped and prayed by the time he left in january we would have been well under way to fighting for our marriage. i told him i hoped he could let go of the hate and anger, as i will try too, in case anything happens in iraq, i wanted his heart to be filled with the knowledge that the kids and i love him and not to have his heart filled with hate.

i apologized to him for being sarcastic the other day, told him i didn't want to stoop to that level, that yes i am angry about some things but that being sarcastic was not the way to be.

i try to be as nice as i can when he is around which isn't very often. I am just so much so trying to get through this whole situation myself.

i feel it is totally in God's hands now. we have prayed and done all we can do. he knows where i am if he wants to talk and he knows how i feel. all that is left is for his mom to talk with him and that is that. i did tell him that no matter what we were supporting him during his time in iraq when he does go and even going to iraq may change some things for him. mlhb

mlhb-

Did your MIL have her talk with him yet??

I think that it may be time to go to Plan B with him, because it sounds like you're tired of doing all this and that you're losing love for him......and he does talk to you sometimes....but sending him a letter saying that you won't have any contact with him will still hit home, maybe not right away, but it'll be like "Heyyyyyyyyyy I'm the one who doesn't want to be around her...who is she to not want to have contact with me???!" lol.

Please wait for some people who know a whole lot more about Plan B than I do to come and give some advice, but I wanted you to know that I am thinking of going to a sort of modified plan B of my own (Modified because there is no *A* anymore....so it wouldn't be exactly the same). Not sure what the parameters of my Plan B would look like, but I can't keep loving him and letting him walk all over me"



-Caren

Hi Caren. I think my MIL spoke with H yesterday. I went out of town to my mom's yesterday and today so they would have time with me not around and I didn't want to sit home alone for 2 days while H has our kiddos. so.... I called MIL on her cell phone and left her a message to please get back to me so I know when they are leaving to head back tomorrow and if she had had the talk with H and if it did any good. I will know more tomorrow. Now, H's b'day is tomorrow so I got him some gifts from the kids and a card from them. Nothing from me. Also, I still speak through email with Ow's stbxh about this whole sitch and she is really becoming a whack case. She thinks my H wants to marry her and then she thinks he is "cheating" on her (I love that part, since we haven't even signed any papers yet who exactly is cheating on whom here anyway?? LOL and since their relationship is just sex is it really cheating anyway?) she called her stbxh in middle of night all upset. what a whack.

So, my H got his orders he is definitely going to iraq in january, has to go to combat training next month for a week. has to do a will and everything. he already told me what to do with anything of his. (needless to say ow piece of sf thing isn't being left anything... haha) he is really scared now. I am hoping he takes the next few months to get his act straightened out and his heart right before he goes. There are no guarantees he will come back alive.... I think this will give him some thinking time. God works in mysterious ways ya know. I pray He uses this situation to help H get back on track.

Will keep you updated. But did give him the Plan B type letter, my MIL gave it to him. Not sure if he read it, she will tell me if he did.

mlhb

Can you post the letter???

I think that it would be perfect timing to Plan B him after his B-day, and before he goes to Iraq....and with his Mom talking to him about saving his family....I really do....I think it just may wake him up....then maybe the time apart when he goes to Iraq, he'll weigh his options and see that his family is where he should be.

-Caren