HI,

I'm just thinking and I wanted to know what WS think about this???

If it takes the WS so long to really "get it" in their marriage and if they don't "understand" the pain that we BS go through...............would they really also feel the same pain that we did, if they discovered that their spouse also had an affair?

Wouldn't they be able to understand the situation of an affair better? Wouldn't they understand the thrill of an affair and wouldn't they be able to understand it much better and "get over with it" without having to experience the pain that we BS go through????????????

I've talked with my husband about this and he seems to always say that he would react differently if I had been the one that had an affair.
He says that he wouldn't of needed to ask so many questions and he wouldn't of obsessed like I did.
He says he would of been able to get over with the affair faster and less complicated.

This is why I'm asking. For those who have been the WS, isn't it easier to get over a "payback affair" because you too have been through an affair of your own and you can "maybe" understand affairs better...............

I'm just thinking........................

bb

No, none are easy to get over regardless of the reasons for the A.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

well, maybe not "easy" but "easier"???????????????? (if that makes sence)

bb

the person who would really hurt is the BS (you) I would stop that train of thought before it leaves the station. There is no way you can teach them a lesson, without making yourself just as guilty as they.

Don't do that to yourself, and don't undermine your own position by doing it to him. You are the faithful one, if you have your own A you will never ever be able to say you were the faithful one. Don't do it.

It would probably be more painful to the WS to leave him, (I'm guessing) than to screw around on him.

I am NOT even considering to cheat on my husband!!!!

I also don't want to teach him anything. I would just like to know if the one that cheated, gets cheated on himself..........is the pain as bad as it was for the BS(that was always faithful)
Isn't there a better understanding from the WS because he has been through it themself???

I find that when my husband talks about this, it seems as if he would react completely different as I did.
I just wanted to know if people that have been through this, say the same thing.

There are support groups for BS and there are support groups for OW and and and...................they all seem to understand what they are going through.

So wouldn't a WS understand his BS if they got involved in and affair??? Wouldn't the WS be able to cope with this situation differently............more understanding???

I am not talking about "what a BS does to themself" by having an affair because I know it would make them no better!

bb

Interesting question. A guy I know was recently voicing his thoughts in this very thing. Said he doesn't think his wife ever really understood what happened and 'how' it happened since he was the last guy in the world she or anyone would have thought this could happen to.

He said, on one hand, he almost wished his wife would have one, not as a deliberate retaliation, but go down that slippery path so she would better understand. And then also, maybe it would 'even out' the balance of scales, in his mind. He realized this was absurd logic, but nonetheless, he really sensed he would not be hurt or devestated by it...but almost relieved.

Then on the other hand, he said that maybe his marriage had cooled off to such a place that maybe his heart really wouldn't care anymore. He was also quick to point out that the love he felt for the MW he was involved with...that it would crush him to think of her involved with someone else.

Go figure. These things get complicated and painful, me thinks.

B4long,

that's exactly what I meant!!!!

Wouldn't the WS be able to handle an affair better because he understands what happened and he understands the feelings that are involved.

Also the feeling of being releaved because now the BS has done the same thing. This would be an equalizer for the WS wouldn't it??? Well at least from what I think at times.

I myself couldn't do it though. I will give my best to "NEVER" get into that situation, no matter what and throughout the 30 years that my husband and I have been together, I am able to say that I have given my 100% to avoid these kind of situations.

But then again at times, I think that I must appear to be quit boring for my husband because he has expereinced the "OS"!!! (other side)...............

bb

OMG YES!!

I am the FWS and 7 months into recovery my H had an affair and left for 4 weeks. As much as I could understand how he got there, and do comparasons, the devestation and hurt was unbelievable...I was so hurt that he didn't see what MY A did to us, that he would have one. I was so hurt that after all the effort and changes I was making to re-commit that he could just throw that all back in my face and have one.

I don't know if it hurt me more or less than mine hurt him, as I do believe the hurts were different...my A came out of left field...well his A came out of hurt and anguish of my A. But while his hurt was disappointment, shock, anger, my hurt was amazing disappointment in that he hadn't learned from what we had already been through...that him KNOWING what he himself had gone through, would put me through it...

He like you guys thought I would rationalize the pain, that because I could understand it - it would hurt me less. Understanding it has only allowed me to let go of dwelling and questions that many other BS's get stuck on, but the triggers still hurt me too my core.

One of the biggest disappointments is that I held him so high, my rock, my ispiration to change and be more like him in morals through my recovery...and it turned out he was just as human as me.

We are now almost 2 months into our second recovery. We don't bring up either affairs, as one triggers the other person, and we want to concentrate on our future and changing the things we need to change.

Don't ever be fooled if you think your remorseful WS wouldn't be just as hurt. They will be.

Hi Blondblossom,

My H had a long R with an OW a few years before my PA. He admits that he was in love with her, but insists that it was not an A, because they never had sex, and some other rationalizations of his. So, I will call it an EA, even though I saw the two of them kissing and cuddling, and to me that is physical. Anyhow, I do know the shock of discovery, the pain of betrayal, the uncovering of continued lies and contact, and everything else that goes along with being the BS in the aftermath of an A.

There’s another entire thread I could write about that, but what I wanted to say was that on the d-day for my PA, my H could not and still does not consider what he did to be wrong or as bad as what I did, even though he DOES know the headiness of “falling in love,” having needs met outside the M, etc. We have discussed it on several occasions. He cannot even relate to withdrawing from OP, even though he has gone through it himself (his resulted in many trips to the doctor for stomach trouble)! I’ve decided we will never agree about his EA, and to stop trying to make comparisons.

He has had an EA since my A, which he won’t admit, but God knows I know the definition. I understood the pull toward the source of having needs met, but I couldn’t understand how he could go that route after all that we have been through - counseling, books we’ve read, etc. He’s not really all that into MB principals, although we’ve read the book, and done the questionnaires.

Sometimes I wonder if he had a PA now, would I just give up and get a D? I "think" if he repented and asked me to keep working on the M, I would, because he did that for me, but I’ve lived long enough to know I won’t necessarily do what I think I’d do if/when the time comes. So, who knows?

I can understand what makes you wonder about it. Let’s be careful not to get a thread started about who hurts the most, though (even though I don't think that's where you're headed with this, just wanted to mention it)– I’ve seen battles on the board on that subject. Everyone just goes around and around about it, getting more and more steamed. I think it’s difficult, if not impossible, to compare pain.

God bless,

Rose

Oh I think that line of thought is tempting, I'm sure that it has crossed the mind of many a BS, I know that it has crossed mine, but that's all it's done is *cross* my mind, because I have taken the moral high ground, and I could never do that to *myself*....it doesn't have a whole lot to do with my husband, it's something I couldn't do.

As for the WS understanding it better, cause they'd been there. I have my doubts about that. It would probably end up being a one-up contest.

BS/WS: You had an affair first

WS/BS: But you had yours longer.

BS/WS: You told the OW you loved her.

WS/BS: You went away for the weekend with the OM.

See what I mean? Each person would think their pain was the worst, or that they were more of a victim...etc.

2 wrongs wouldn't make a right.

-Caren

Just an afterthought. One thing I didn't think about when posting earlier was if my A was a retaliation A. It gets rather murky when I try to figure it all out, so I have stopped trying to make 100% sense out of anything, but I don't think retaliation was my driving force in having an A. There was an element of spite there, sure, but I think my driving force was having needs met. In any case, I'm sure we all agree that any reason for having an A is a bad, unacceptable reason, and everyone gets hurt.

Rose

Yes, you would think a WS would be quite understanding if their BS went out and had an affair.

You would think the WS would not worry about it and would Get Over It very quickly, since they demand that the BS do exactly that.

Funny, though, there don't seem to be many WS who do.
Mulan

Well, I can offer up my experience as chatter fodder...

I reg'd at MB in 1999 as a WS. In 2003, my wife took on the role.

Without posting a book on the details, I can honestly say that I became aware of her affair even before she did.

Though the affair ended up costing me my marriage and family, I had a very hard time sitting in judgement about the affair itself and had no trouble forgiving her. (What I had a hard time forgiving was her refusal to end it, and the chaos that it brought to our family)

So, in answer to your question... strictly speaking... my wife's affair was very painful, but I found forgiveness very easily. I understood the things she was going through. I never took it personally.

Some things were very hard to accept because she'd been at MB a long time and was highly respected as a poster. I honestly thought she knew better.

Another thing that I learned, (and I'm sure some will disagree with me)...Being a WS is a more painful experience than being a BS.

I'd much rather be betrayed than be the betrayer. (If I had to choose between the two)

I guess it was easier for me to sympathise with her, even though the circumstances surrounding our respective affairs were wholly different.

dewt (whose post is somewhat disjointed, but at least it is brief)

Oh yeah... one more thing... as a WS, I never demanded that my W get over my affair. Not once. Not even after she had hers.

dewt, what did you find to be more painful about being a WS? I'm the BS, but I'd like to get some insight on what might be running through my WS's head (although he seems quite happy to have left to be with his affair partner). I am very interested in your thoughts, since you have been both a WS and a BS.

I hope this isn't too much of a threadjack. It kind of applies to the original topic...sort of. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Pebbles,

if i can comment too - It's been easier to forgive my H, than it has been to forgive myself. He inflicted pain on to me which I have had to heal from (and still am), but ultimately as the WS, I was the one who inflicted pain on the one I love, and the hurt from knowing I can do that was harder for me personally than the hurt of being betrayed. Maybe because one is something I did...and the remorse and hurt of it is harder for me to deal with then something that was done unto me?

Like Dewt said...The hurt is horrible, but I am able to move past things faster. I know what I need to let go of, what is dwelling and obsessing based on what I saw H go through, so I able to redirect thoughts easier than if I had been the BS first. I know based on him what I need to know, what I need to see, and what I need to let go of, so maybe being a WS before a BS helped me learn what i need to do to heal?

Also, healing as BS has been alot faster process then healing from being a WS, once again I think that relates to the first paragraph.

To avoid the comparing thing, H and I do not bring up the affairs anymore to eachother. I got my initial details, etc. When one of us is hurting, all we say is - i am having a hard moment, or I am hurting, and the other one consoles us. We do not bring up why if it is in relation to one of our affairs. Early on, when I would bring up obssessing thoughts of his, it would bring up thoughts of mine, and we would get nowhere.

now I know this makes it seem as if maybe as a WS, I didn't hurt as much as other BS's because I am handling and processing it faster. No - it's because I can understand I am healing faster, the pain was so deep I could barely breathe. I was sooo angry!

I second all of the above....

a betrayal rips apart the fabric of your universe...

just because Dewt was a WS once did NOTHING to lessen the pain of what I put him through...

in fact....it had the potential of making it worse...

ie: how could you do this...you've been here...you've felt this...how could you inflict this on someone you love?


betraying can be far far far worse than being betrayed...


as a BS...you can look yourself in the mirror...as a WS...it is almost impossible.


but....

even after I was the WS....Dewt's dating and SF with others (while telling me he wanted to recover our M)cut me to the bone...


pain hurts...betrayal hurts...even a WS has feelings that can be hurt...pain is not lessened because you have been in their shoes...


Dylan

That's easy. As a BS, I had this pain inflicted on me. I didn't really have a choice in the matter. I just had to learn to deal with it. As a WS, the choice was mine... and I had to see the horrible pain in the eyes of the woman who I love with all my heart and soul... and face the fact that I was the one who put it there.

Knowing that pain... knowing how overwhelming it can be... I have a good understanding of why The Fog is such a popular phenomena... it's the only way for a WS to escape that feeling...

Also, as a WS, I knew that I had committed this sin against others in the past. I knew that when I committed this horrible act, it was an act of pure selfishness rather than an attack against my Wife. And so when I found myself betrayed, I never once took it as an act against me... I never took it personally. It made forgiveness that much easier. Also, there was an element of karma involved...


Well, I'm not sure I can help you with your WH... I never fell in love with the OW. I never contemplated leaving my Wife for her... I was vulnerable... needs not being met... and OW knew how to push my buttons. I was ready and willing to have those buttons pushed, but never ever suffered from The Fog. When D-day came around, there was no waffling, no decision to make... I knew I had done wrong. I knew that I wanted my Wife and my Family...

I think I may have over simplified a bit there... I hope it helps. I would be totally willing to go into further depth on this issue if you wish... But right now, I've kind of comandeered the computer from my Wife (Soulloss) and I can see she is being patient... I'm gonna sign off now... cause I love her and don't want her to feel supplanted.

(See Dylan, I'm being considerate... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

John

Oh... Hey Dylan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, didn't see you'd posted.

J

Thank you, dorry, soulloss, and dewt, for your perspectives on WS pain. Lots to think about.

From what I have read, it seems that once someone was a WS they do seem to "understand" the situation of an affair better or?????????????.....................

I'm NOT saying that the pain isn't there, I'm just saying that they can somehow put themselves into those shoes because they have been there.

I as an BS CANNOT in anyway see myself in an affair. The thought even horrifies me.
I've noticed on myself that even if I do something that is not completely correct, I start to shake and my face turns colours. So how can I even imagine myself in an affair.

Just the thought of having an affair with someone and sleeping with them, then to go home and act as if "nothing" is happening..............I can't see that, I can't even imagine that.

For me there is somehow a wall between my husband and I. He's been on the other side and therefore "knows" what it is like..................I can't even imagine that.

I therefore really believe that he Can "understand" someone better that is/was involved in an affair, even if he knows how much pain it inflicts and even if he knows how low it is.

I am not discussing who has the most pain..........I am very aware that both sides have their share to deal with. I've seen it and I've been there.

Even if I'm in NO way out to have an affair I think that WS that have NEVER been betrayed on don't "understand" the pain that we BS go through until they experience it themself.
And I don't think that BS can truely "understand" how someone can have an affair and do the things that they do, until they have been there.

This is only my opinion because I cannot even imagine being in an affair...........the thought is horrifying for me.
I've tryed to "understand" my husband ..............I can't. I can understand what led to the affair and I can understand that he felt "unloved" and that he was missing loving feelings but I cannot "understand" how he was able to take that step and NOT stop when he knew where it was leading to.

I cannot understand how this man was able to react so normal during his affair and even though I had known him for 25 years, I didn't have a clue.

Only HE knows what that was like and therefore he is able to "understand" how others are capable to do this, I can't.I am NOT saying that he agrees with it but he can "understand" it because he's been there.

I can only truely understand the BS side of this.

The biggest question for me is: How was/is a WS able to take that "first" step??? The step where he is aware that it is wrong. How are they able to "hide" this? How are they even able to function without the BS knowing it??

I know that this happens because of the emotional needs that are being fullfilled and because of the thrill and excitement involved but I would for sure "break down" and RUN!!!!!!!
You'd be able to see it and you'd for sure KNOW that something is wrong with me. My body reacts immediately when I do something wrong!!!! This makes me "furious" at times because I can't "hide" anything!!!!!

Well, I've babbled enough..................thanks for the replys so far. It has helped me to understand what I wanted to.

I still hope that others will give me some more insight.

bb