“…at this point things can go one of two ways:

1) The WS softens their heart, admits they were wrong, wants to end the A and make things right, agrees to no contact (NC), and takes accountability measures like sharing email passwords, cell phone records, schedules, etc. If this is how your WS responds, then we would STRONGLY encourage you to have an equally soft heart, trust but confirm, and don’t hold it over their head forever. Yep, there is a LOT of damage done, and a lot from which to heal, but have a little empathy and compassion. As a couple you two can begin Recovery, discover what weaknesses lead to this A, and build a stronger, closer marriage.

2) The WS hardens their heart and continues despite being exposed. The raging and blaming continues. They refuse to admit they were wrong; they do ANY THING to continue the A; they go deeper underground and continue contact with the OP; they keep secrets and demand “privacy”—and they absolutely refuse any sort of counseling or coaching. If this is how your WS responds, then you might progress to Plan B.”


IMO it’s not XOR (exclusive or). In my case, FWW did both. And she did them with amazing expertise. She admitted she was wrong, promised NC, did everything you list in item 1 and more. And, she did everything she could to continue the A and went farther underground.

She did both of the above simultaneously and continuously for five more years after D-Day 1.

In dealing with the trauma of an LTA, five more years is forever.

Hi Aphelion: I wanted to thank you for pointing out a point that we can clarify in our original post. The original intent IS XOR, because of the terms "softening" and "hardening" of the heart. However, we left the conclusion open to an inclusive that we did not intend. I'll talk it over with CJ and we'll change the wording. Basically the two points are mutually exclusive because in the first, the WS actually changes and approaches the marriage, in the second, the WS refuses to change. Call it repentance (a term I think is very appropriate: a reverse of direction.) Hence:


Your FWW did not truly repent of her actions, and instead, played a word/head game, promising A while doing B. In other words, she fell into the second category. Put it this way: you CANNOT work on a marriage AND have an affair - the two are mutually exclusive, just like driving two directions at the same time - impossible (except in some sort of semantic sophistry on vectors). She may have admitted she was wrong, promised NC, and may have seemed to have done everything on the list - but in reality she did not, because she did not repent. She did NOT cease her destructive behavior - she simply hid it better - behind a curtain of promises (raise the right hand, poor out the flask - and then sip from that flask in the left hand.) If she had actually done everything on the list (including ACTUAL rather than tongue in cheek NC) a DDay 2 would have been unlikely, at best.

DD

Oh, that's a good point Aphelion--it's not EXCLUSIVELY that the WS will do one or the other. The WS MAY choose number 1 ... or number 2 ... or do them both ... or even make up something entirely different! However, just so you know, I don't think a WS can honestly soften their heart, choose to work on the M and be sorry--and at the same time harden their heart and choose the A. Yeah...they DO that sometimes, but what's really happening is that they are not truly turning away from the A--they are just hiding it better and continuing in number 2 (hardening).

Thus, even when a WS does choose to soften their heart, that is why I *strongly* encourage the BS to "trust but verify." It is completely reasonable to keep checking up on the WS and keep confirming what they say and where they say they are. Shoot, in my own R with DD, I tell him where I am going (I'm off to work, hon!) and when he calls to the office and I'm actually there and actually answer, it grows trust! I am where I say I'm going to be! I am doing what I say I'm going to be doing! My words and actions match, and even though I haven't betrayed him, I still encourage him to check my email accounts, read my emails and IMs, and check up on me.

Good point Aphelion--something to remember. Even when it appears to be "softening their heart", it might not be. Confirm!!




FNCJ

I understand what you mean about a WS who actually repents is not simultaneously able to actively choose the A any longer.

Let me put my thoughts down on paper (er, on the aether as the case may be) this way:

If we subscribe to the analogy of affairs as addictions, a WS doing both should be expected. An alcoholic or drug addict is often caught between what they knows is right and actually wants to do and their addiction. They will often truly want to stop and will profess heartfelt and definite conviction that the addiction is cast aside once and for all. Yet still they fall again and again - maybe the next day, maybe in the next hour. This happens all the time. And it happens repeatedly with most addicts.

After D-Day 1, FWW cried real tears, more than once, saying she knew how much she hurt me, the A was wrong, she would never contact him again and she would never do it again. I not only believed her while she was saying this but I now believe she herself meant it when she said it.

But, unknown to me, her drug of choice, OM, would not leave her alone. So she fell again and again during the months after D-day 1, even though she probably didn’t want to fall, at least at first. Of course, these are still choices she made, and eventually your choices become who you are. After a few short months she gave up trying and wholeheartedly reentered the A.

Because I believed her, she was very convincing after all, I stopped checking up on her and I let it go entirely after about six months. So the A cruised on undeterred and under water for many more years.

As with all analogies, the addiction view should only be carried so far. FWW has internal conflicts to resolve that do not relate to any view of A’s as addictions, IMO. For one thing, her A started out as a PA within 48 hrs of their first meeting. And it lasted for 10 years.

They became almost as much H and W as FWW and I and OM and his BW in the first place. It may well be OM is her one true love in this life and I need to get out of the way. She says no, but I am still deciding.

I also prefer to avoid semantic arguments so I will just comment outright on the following:

“Put it this way: you CANNOT work on a marriage AND have an affair - the two are mutually exclusive, just like driving two directions at the same time - impossible (except in some sort of semantic sophistry on vectors).”

IMO, this depends on your definition of marriage. Well, to be precise, on the WS definition of marriage. Some cake-eaters are perfectly rational in their arguments to have a spouse and a lover. It makes sense to them anyway. This could be their working definition of a good marriage. (Shoot, it would be my definition of a great marriage if morals and ethics alowed it.)

Lastly, and totally separate from addiction theory - even if the WS changes for real, such changes take time. There is usually a transition period when WS will be in a superposition of states, so to speak. Several competing goals and traits exist simultaneously, like changing orthogonal components that generate the end point of multi-dimensional vector. (For what it’s worth, I prefer the coherent superposition of pure states description, LOL.) This conflict lasted about three months for my FWW after D-Day 1, I think. She resolved it by emitting a photon and dropping back down to the A state.

The resolution of this ambiguity since D-day 2 is another story for another time...

With prayers,

Edited to correct some spelling and remove some absolutes.

Bumping this up 'cause I missed it the first time around...maybe others did too...

This is great stuff CJ & DD!



TM

how about this ridiculous trash?

The OP is offended when you accuse her of sleeping with your husband and demands an apology.

Oh yeah and how about WH saying he does not understand why everyone blames this on the OW. And wonders why no one likes her. yeah maybe she was not the cause of the problems in the marriage but now she plays and important part of M not being able to heal because she has her claws sunk in deep.

Perhaps you might include in your list of effects BS (and some WS) should expect the physical trauma. More than just weight loss and anxiety attacks, prolonged stress changes blood pressure and chemistry resulting in:

Hidden strokes
Ulcers
Feinting
Extreme irritability
Cramps
Insomnia

The list goes on...

I lost the central vision in one eye due to fluid buildup behind the retina and the resultant damage.

There may be career fallout too. I was removed from the sensitive programs I worked on due to who OM is and his other A’s with foreign nationals.

There also may be career fallout because you are in such a bad place mentally, things that formerly mattered to you no longer do. You neglect responsibilities that need attending to, and go from being productive (overproductive in my case) to being completely useless overnight.

TM