Inquiring minds want to know: Is there anybody on MB who is not in recovery but is on cordial terms with their WS? We've got people in recovery who are hopefully getting along well with their S. We've got folks in Plan A, B and D who have incredible amounts of anger or sadness about their WS. Is there an inbetween?

Why do I ask? It's been about 11 months since WH started his A. My, how time flies! I sense that I'm at a moving-on kind of point. I'm not crying every day. The molten core of smoldering anger and hurt is under control. I can see the possibilities of the future. WH has his head stuck far, far up his butt and is in deep, deep denial. He's like a batchlor uncle. He pops by or shows attention to us at his whim. He has no set plan for seeing his kids or for any interaction. There is no relationship talk from him. No mention of divorce, separation, slimeball OW or anything. I've learned not to trust awhat he says. Even if the truth will do, he still seems to have a lie available. However, on a corporate level, we can function well together. We can talk about our rental house or what's happening with our insurance. I can inform him about what the kids are doing but he won't volunteer anything or have an opinion. There is no nastiness about money or support.

A large part of me has come to believe that maybe WH is doing the best he can. That maybe he's always been this way but when his body was in our house it seemed different. One of the questions I have to answer is if this is enough for me? If the fog ever lifts, would we get back together? Could I get back together? There will be a time soon, when I'll break out of this limbo.

I can see us sliding into a separation and perhaps a divorce without much effort. I can see it being done without a lot of anger. He wouldn't put up much of a custody battle. Heck, he'd see his kids MORE if he was even given minimum custody. He has an all-consuming but well-paying job. His paycheck goes right into our joint account. He doesn't begrudge paying for the boys' college tuition. He doesn't question what I spend around the house. I'm the the cautious one. Of course, on D-day, I told him that if he messed with our money or credit cards, I was going to hire a pit bull. I think he'd probably give up without much of a fight. You never know but...

Are we weird? Am I missing something? Passion? Righteous Anger? Conflict avoidance? Can people come out the other end without a lot of acrimony? Not that WH doesn't have dorkhead potential but I can see us being aquaintances and still do the business end. I might not like him but I could still communicate and work with him. Are there others out there?

Grape:

What's keeping you from doing PLAN B? That includes a PLAN B LETTER....

No in between, GRAPE...

Probably for you either PLAN B or PLAN D sounds like to me...

What would be the purpose of the in between stage that you are referring to? It wouldn't lead to reconciliation. It wouldn't allow closure for you in order to move on with your life...

Grape, I could be wrong but this sounds to me like your WH is taking a "marriage sabbatical." That is, he is on vacation from your marriage, having a wonderful time with his girlfriend, and enjoying the knowledge that you will wait for him and he can always go back to you and the marriage when he's done dating her.

Of course he's happy and "cordial." This is a fantastic arrangment for him. What's in it for you?
Mulan

Me.

I am cordial w/exW. We speak from time to time, and even got together for lunch on our 10th anniversary of getting together as a pair.

Shoot, I'm on the phone with her as I type this!

GG, I am wondering the same thing Mimi is, why wouldn't you work the MB program? Why would you allow this to slide into a D if there is a chance you could pull it out with Plan B? Or are you done with the marriage?

p.s. do you have a marketable skill that would allow you to support yourself and the girls?

Mulan, that's a good question. What's in it for me is that my family is being financially supported. At this point, WH is working a ton of hours on his project. At the end of the month, he will be going back to Singapore (where his A started) for another extended visit. I don't think OW is on this trip. He doesn't seem to have a lot of time to spare for her either. Since he doesn't say he isn't seeing her, I assume he still is. I think he enjoys his time by himself. He can work 15 hour/day/6 days/week and retreat to a place where nobody can reach him. He goes to a place where there are no chores, homework to be done, or interactions he does not seek. It will be interesting when he gets back from this trip. Will the fog lift? Or will he continue his twin affairs with OW and his job? If he has more time on his hands, where will he spend it?

Mimi, Yes Plan B needs to happen before I can find closure. I'm not sure if he can find the energy to change. His next trip overseas is going to be a lot like Plan B.

I am moving on. I have a job interview tomorrow. I've started slowly, like one piece at a time, taking his stuff out of the closet and putting them in big, black garbage bags. Last week, I started sewing for the first time since he came home a cheating husband. (For some reason, that made my kids happy.) I'm working on me alot. I am not the same person I was 11 months ago.

Sounds like you've reached a point of indifference toward your WS. It is probably a perfect time for Plan B. It would be emotionally easy for you and it might be a wakeup call for WS.

It sounds like he is enjoying his cake right now and you are icing it for him.

GG, is there some reason you don't want to try Plan B? His leaving the country wouldn't be Plan B. One of the key components of Plan B is taking back control of the situation and cutting off contact.

If he left the country, he wouldn't be able to see you anyway so it wouldn't have much impact at all. He is already resigned to that fact. On the other hand, if he were in the vicinity, he would feel the full impact of not being able to come over and see you. See what I mean?

If you are going to do a Plan B, I would do it well in advance of his leaving the country. Show him beforehand what its like to lose his family - that will give him lots to think about abroad.

Grape:

I'm on the same wavelength with Mel.

Is it that you are really done with the M and can't admit that to yourself?

ML, I used to have marketable skills. I used to be a Cost Accountant. After 21 years as a SAHM, I've been inventorying my strengths and skills. I'm not sure I'm cut out for corporate life anymore. I've been autonomous for too long. I'm an extremely creative person. While I can't keep my kitchen counters cleared or clean out the clutter, I can organize a 2 week vacation for 10 people or a picnic for 100 very well. My organizing skills are more for logistics. Some people can keep a house clean, my gifts are different. A friend of mine suggests I combine my twin loves of writing and travel. That's something I need more energy to pursue. I like kids. I'm looking at jobs in the school system to see how I feel about that. Would I look into a teaching certificate? At my husband's income level and after nearly 30 years of marriage, the lawyer I talked to said I'd come out with very decent support. We're also the rare American family that is not in debt and have decent savings. (Although WH has made some inroads into that.) I also believe my daughter is my highest priority and WH would probably agree. I'm not taking a job that will make her a latchkey kid as a middle schooler and for the first time in her life. That's another reason I'm looking for jobs within the school system. There is no indication from WH that he wouldn't continue supporting us for an indefinite time. He doesn't even want to talk about me getting a job.

Am I giving up? I don't know. Do I want the same H and the same marriage I had before? Definitely not. If WH showed up tomorrow and said "Tada! I'm back!" I think I'd have to say "NO, go away!" If he said he'd seen the light, wanted to do counseling and was willing to work together towards make our lives different, I'd have to listen to him. I wouldn't let him back but I'd listen. It would be easy to let him sneak back but I'm a strong person.

Am I crazy? It will probably take a Plan B to get things happening.

ok, I have a stupid question. When you get divorced, does the H normally have to support the W for life? I know that GG is probably going to have to give his W a small payment [800-1000] for 3-5 yrs, but is it common to support the W for life? I ask sincerely because I just don't know.

When my last H left, I had been supporting him for 20 years and made sure he left with only the clothes on his back and the truck I had bought him.

ML:

My separation agreement which as we know was not finalized required my H to pay me a certain amount for one year and then a lower certain amount for the rest of my life whether I married or not. He was obligated to pay this spousal support even though I had begun working outside the home. That was because he had been the primary provider for so long, the assumption being that I could not catch up with him and that there would be a decline in my status. I guess. Those are the laws in my state.

Getting back to you Grape.. We've suggested PLAN B to you before MONTHS AND MONTHS AGO and you are continuing to ask about it...

What is stopping you from doing PLAN B?

Mel, I think Grape started posting when you were on a MB VACATION....she may need to fill you in....

I'm bad, I'm truly bad. A procrastinator extraordinary. I'm also waiting for WH's big yearly bonus to hit. This is tuition and my new car. Is this too mercenary? The top officers of his company were issued $7M bonus due to profits. As a key employee on the project that made most of the money and after losing most of the things important to life, (like his family) WH should be come into a good one. Maybe mid 5 figures. I want to protect my kids and make sure it gets where it needs to get.

Is it unrealistic to think that once the pressure of his project is off, perhaps he can work on things? This is the 4th project like this we've been through. It's really intense for 18 months then usually slacks off for 6 months. However, this time, the project he was on mutated immediately into a new one and there was no break. Could happen again but I don't think he could stand it.

I can't figure out where WH's at on things. He seems content not to see or hear from us. He seems unconcerned that his daughter won't even speak to him. While DD and I were gone, WH would come by the house to "check" on DS but often came when DS wasn't here, never fixed him dinner or took him out to a meal or spent the night. It would be one thing if it was me but his kids???? The man is an enigma.

On a Sunday-go-to-meeting kind of note, some months ago, I asked God to take my marriage where he wants it to be but to give me the strength to deal with it. I surrendered it to him. To my amazed surprise, my prayer was answered. I was given strength and a feeling of God's presence. While sometimes I feel like I'm floundering, I try to go with what I feel is right. I ask for guidance, a lot. Every once in a while, God gives me a kick in the butt. Maybe you guys are his agents too.

GG, it's your life, but I would caution you about waiting to go into Plan B - IF you want to save your marriage. The longer you wait, the more entrenched he becomes in the affair and the more detached he becomes from you and the kids. Plan B becomes less effective the more detached he becomes. It loses it's impact and it's leverage if the WS no longer cares.

God won't make you do anything against your will, you have to make the decision to work on your marriage. That is, if you DO want to work on your marriage. You sort of sound like you are done with it and your inaction seems to confirm that perception.

But why would he want to work on anything? Is he unhappy about something? It sounds to me like he is perfectly happy with the situation, and who could blame him? As it is now, he has 2 women on the string. He would be crazy to give that up and most likely won't unless motivated.

GG...it seems your spunk is missing. Have you resigned yourself that this is just the way it is? Has it become comfortable to live this way? You don't sound angry, but you sure don't sound happy...

Are you settling for financial security to avoid the possibility of being hurt again? You seem detached to WH this would be perfect time for plan B. What do you want?

Grapegirl,

Have you considered coaching with Steve Harley? He is a master at taking individual situations - and giving you a plan that meeds your specific needs.

He may have some things he wants you to do that aren't standard MB Forum stuff.

My husband and I coached with him for about 9 months; it was the best money I ever spent. Think about it!