If you don’t know my story, I have a few threads under Emotional Needs, and my W has posted a few threads under the name “Breaking Thread”.


Before I start, I love my W. She was faithful to me for 12 years while I failed to do the things for her that she deserved. Unfortunately, now I have to stress the “WAS” faithful to me part…..


OK, time for an update. Last week was such a roller coaster. We both started out pretty good. There was a lot of affection. We spent endless time together discussing so many things about “us". We were both so optimistic as we worked through our pain together. Towards the end of the week, W seemed to be losing enthusiasm for the affection, etc. Her mood became noticeably more downtrodden. Don’t get me wrong, we both are sad a good bit of the time, but the first few days I heard a lot of “I know that I love you, that I want to save our marriage”, “I will make this up to you”, “We will have a better marriage than we ever thought possible”. She made sure to show lots of affection, which I accepted after being starved for this for so long. I am very needy in that respect even in good times, so now I feel that I need more and more.


We took the kids to an amusement park Saturday, stayed in a hotel, and did some other things Sunday. I can’t remember the boys ever being as poorly behaved as they were over the weekend. All I could think of was “How can I compete with the fantasy she had with OM, no kids, no stresses, no real-world M issues, etc”… when with me we have the kids, finances, etc… I felt like the weekend was such a disaster. It sent me in to such a depression that I spent a good deal of time yesterday wiping away tears.


Back to her mood, I perceive a noticeable decrease in her optimism over the last few days. She is no longer as attentive or affectionate to me as she was at first. I do not, repeat, DO NOT, want her to grovel, etc… But I REALLY need to know that she loves me and truly wants to try to save our M. She still says the same things to affirm this, but honestly, words aren’t carrying a lot of weight right now. Her outlook on saving the M is still positive, but her mood about talking about her A, and her general mood towards me is not as energetic as it was last week. Sometimes I feel that she is just moving back in to “normal” too quickly. Again, I don’t want groveling, but I think some prolonged loving attentiveness would be appropriate. However, I also know that she is not emotionally or physically able to do this right now. Is it unreasonable of me to expect her to be able to provide this to me when she is dealing with her own issues of guilt, etc? And her affair in no way erases all the negative feelings she has built up towards me over the 12 years of our marriage. Those issues are still there and affecting her emotions towards me.


After we got home last night, I re-read an email exchange between her and OM and got pretty emotional. She got aggravated at me for reading it, saying it couldn’t do anything good for our M. I said that it was only 2 weeks ago that she was telling him she loved him and wanted to be with him forever. She was actively scheming to get me out of the way. Now fast forward 2 weeks, affair exposed, and she says she knows she loves me, OM “isn’t as good a man as me”; she really wants to save the marriage, etc… It is hard for me to accept the sincerity of that in light of everything I know. The A ended, from what I can gather, because both were frantic about the prospects of losing their kids. There were several phone calls back and forth on the morning of the discovery, of which I am still not clear on the specifics of the conversations. All signs to me are that she was ready to leave me permanently until I got a hold of our kids, and his wife threatened to move their kids out of state. One of the last conversations was, according to her, OM telling her “I am too much trouble for you, go back and save your marriage”. Then she found out a little later that he was going to “try to save his marriage”.


I know that these details may or may not mean anything. But how do I know her motives? I want to believe her.


I know that I CAN fulfill her EN’s if she lets me or wants ME to. I know that I can be happy doing this for her. I know that in my heart I love her dearly and hope above all else that I can manage to get over the A, make her happy with me, and be happy with her. I know my motives. I just can’t 100% accept the sincerity of hers. And also, I worry that if after a year or so, I still feel that my EN’s are not being fulfilled, I won’t be able to do much about it.


I told her yesterday that this is a critical juncture in both our lives. We BOTH need to really think about whether we truly believe that we can fulfill each others EN’s and be happy together. I know that this “juncture” is going to take a few years to cross before we can make those decisions.


In the meantime I feel like I am backsliding on some of the self improvements I made on myself over the past several weeks when I did not have her around. I became more independent and more open to finding things to make me happy without her. I hate losing these but know that if I truly commit to saving my M, I need the focus to be there and not on those “independent” things. But then I come of as being “needy”.


All I know for sure is that right now I am so mixed up, so hurt, so betrayed, so despondent, and yet still filled with so much love for her. Trying to fit all of this in to one head is so very difficult.

Hi tired dad -

Thank goodness you have posted here. I was the one who questioned whether your wife was having an affair on the EN thread. I have kept up with the thread up there, and it really blew my mind. So I'm happy you decided to post here.

So let's get serious. You and I (and anyone who is thinking straight at all) know that your wife did not go from loving OM back to loving you in 2 weeks. That is just pure BS. I'm not saying that your wife is lying, just that she is still not thinking quite right.

Sadly, the work of restoring the marriage will fall on your shoulders right now. That is not fair, but just the way it is.

So rest up for the upcoming battle. Recovery is much harder than anything you have gone through so far. But I think we can help you.

Have you thought about contacting the Harley's for at least one appointment? I think it would really help you.

Hi, T_D,

One thing that people might point out is that once the affair is over, the WS typically goes through a "withdrawal" process. Harley talks about this, and says it usually takes about 2 weeks with no contact for the BS to get over this, but that during this time they will be depressed and will not necessarily accept the BS's efforts to fill their needs.

I've read people here saying that it may take longer than 2 weeks, btw.

Harley recommends that during this period, the recovering couple might try to go away together. I think he also recommends that the WS use anti-depressants if necessary.

I know you've got your issues with dealing with the affair. I can only imagine the depth of the pain and betrayal. But she has issues of her own to deal with. Harley considers affairs a form of addiction - and some current research I've seen quoted on this board (by star*fish) indicates that the changes in brain chemistry produced by the affair are indeed similar to using drugs. Thus, the withdrawal analogy is a very good one.

Your wife has to deal with the issues of sadness over the end of the affair. I saw her mention this in one of her threads - she said she hates the fact that she feels this way towards someone who almost ruined her marriage, but she is going to feel this way, I think, regardless of what she wants. I saw that she tried to share these feelings with you at one point. That's kind of a heavy load for her to lay on your shoulders - on the other hand, she will need to talk to *someone* about it. Maybe with the female Christian friend she mentioned in her thread.

There needs to be absolutely no contact between her and the OM. Any contact at all is supposed to put her right back to the beginning of the withdrawal process.

I'm sorry you have to deal with "withdrawal" on top of everything else. But, however the affair ended, it has ended, and that gives you a chance. Your wife seems to realize that she wants to be with you, but she is having to deal with the emotional debris left over from the affair.

I know from her posts that your wife bought "Surviving an Affair". I really urge you to read it. Know what to expect - it won't fully insulate you against the feelings and emotions you are going to experience, but knowing what is coming will help a lot in dealing with it.

Hey TD,

I'm really glad that you are still here at MB and I think you are going to get alot of support and help here at GQII.

I've been thinking alot about you and hoping you were ok. I believe in you and what is in your heart. You have some work to do. I cannot express how impressed I am that you are going to make a sincere effort to restore your M. I wish you and your family all the best (that includes alot of comfort and peace during this time).

I'll be following your posts but I won't be participating. Gonna leave that to the experts here on GQII.

Take good care,
Symphony

TD, your post talks a lot about how you feel and what you want her to do. But I'm not seeing anything about what *you* do.

That's really the crux of the issue, since you can only fix you.

So here's a start: What's the plan for making sure you never, ever again, for the rest of your life, make one of your nasty little comments that you posted you have a massive history of making?

I have to agree with MOS here - you need, TD, to *eliminate* your Love Busters. I think you've done a good job of reducing them, but you need to completely eliminate them.

Eliminating Love Busters will help A LOT in creating an environment where you can begin to meet her Emotional Needs. Active Love Busting will make that very difficult, if not impossible.

Sheesh TD, I guess you just can't get rid of these folks. I didn't post on the EN board because of the dad bashing, but here they are again. While everyone can post what they want to here, I think it is fascinating that your thread on the EN board went on for days, without you answering.

I know, they will say that they just want to "help" you, but who needs this kind of help? Not me, for sure. I will never forget your D-day, where you LB'd. Then everyone jumped down your throat. Tsk-tsk. These folks should have seen me on D-day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Compared to me, you looked like the Pope.

What thread of TD's went on for days without him answering? I'm asking because I'm catching up on his posts, since he asked me to join his thread here and be brutally honest, so please show me where that is.

Oh, wait, nm, it's the "FU" thread, yeah, that did go on a bit. Blatant TOS violations tend to have that effect, so it's kind of funny that you're posting about it like it's some kind of conspiracy.

Mineownself - Feel free to post here if TD invited you. Basically I have kept up with the "advice" on the EN thread, and didn't post.

Sheesh, I hope you don't think FU is such a bad reaction. If so, you might want to skip my posts.

On D-day, I threw WH out, followed by his clothes. Possibly threw in a couple of FU's. Told OW to get off her back, and get a job to help support her daughter.

TD's reaction was very normal, though probably not recommended. But people are human and make lots of mistakes.

Actually, no, his reaction was not remotely normal. And it was highly abusive.

I'm kind of bemused by the persistence of some posters in claiming that his "FU" post was just venting, when it clearly was not. If it had been, I for one would have been sympathetic.

But instead he threw a fit about how now that he'd found a reason to point a finger elsewhere, everyone had better shut up about his own ugly behavior, and he cussed out anyone who'd ever called him on it. Classic domestic abuser thinking and behavior, not remotely normal.

mineownself - I don't want to TJ this tread. All I will say is that the reaction on the EN board to TD's D-Day was disgraceful. Soooooooo glad I don't post there.

Well, again, blatant TOS violations tend to get a big reaction. I think the total response was very mild, since according to the rules he should be banned.

I think it is important to keep in context the circumstances. T_D had been trying for months to make changes so that his wife would decide not to divorce him. During this time, she was carrying on an affair and was stringing him along, making very conflicting demands - if he tried to meet her ENs, she demanded space, if he gave her space, she complained about him ignoring her.

She told him the impending demise of their marriage was his fault. I got the impression that many on the board said the same thing to him. Whether or not that is actually what was said, odds are he got that impression, too. I'm sure he thought he could do nothing right, and nothing he was doing seemed to be working.

Under these circumstances, to suddenly find out the real reason he couldn't do anything right would naturally lead to an explosion like he had. And, to his credit, he worked past that very quickly, because within days, his wife (Breaking Thread) was talking about how his behavior since D-Day was incredible, how even in the midst of his own hurt and pain he was caring and comforting toward her.

I think it is ridiculous to claim T_D is a "classic domestic abuser". I agree he needs to eliminate his LoveBusting behavior, but who among us doesn't have work to do on our own selves?

Well, why don't we just do this? Let's argue for another 42 posts like what happened on TD's thread. Then he can post one post, and the rest of us can argue for another 40 posts.

Is it in the realm of possibility to help this guy?? I mean why are you talking about something he did on D-Day instead of what he's doing now???

TD, I agree with Believer that right now, saving this marriage rests on your shoulders. I disagree that withdrawl lasts about 2 weeks....it lasts a heck of a lot longer than that....so batton down the hatches.

I know that finding out that your wife was cheating on you is a terrible blow, and you need to be comforted, but I'm afraid that your WW isn't capable of doing that right now....and that's completely normal.

Don't require her to be affectionate towards you or to tell you she loves you constantly......especially since right now, she CAN'T mean it, and it will mean a whole lot more to you when she can do it of her own free will.

Right now, just be happy that she is going to try to work on this with you, and get in some MC.

Good Luck,

-Caren

I agree with believer - this bickering is pointless.

TD has some specific questions here - he needs advice on how to stay positive while (I think) his wife goes thru withdrawal. And he needs to know what to expect in the upcoming recovery.

I'm going to lay low on this thread, because I am not confident I have anything more substantive and helpful to add than what I said already. But I am really rooting for TD and his wife as they start this difficult process. I have no doubt they are capable of succeeding.

Caren - THANKYOU. Why don't we concentrate on helping this guy? I don't know why, but everyone jumps on him, and ignores his wife's behavior. I was so happy that he posted here, but who knows if he will get any help, even here.

Actually, if you go back and read all his posts as I just did today, you'll find he was switching between either a whole lot of attempts at affection, or none whatsoever combined with ignoring her, which flipflopping would drive anyone nuts.

After a while and a talk with her, he posted that he knew he should try just a couple of gestures of physical affection a day and work on being pleasant-mannered all the time, instead of wildly moody. Anyone here would have told him that if he'd been more Radically Honest about how he was actually handling the situation.


Well again, I reread all his posts today. I wish I could say he made a reasonable attempt at anything, but he makes it pretty clear he didn't. He did manage a few bits of good behavior here and there in situations where his habit was to behave badly, so yes he did do better than in the past. But there was no choosing a reasonable plan and sticking to it on his part, just a whole lot of defeatism. If he did feel that he could do nothing right and nothing was working, in reality a significant part of those feelings are of his own making, since he didn't make a reasonable effort anyway. You can't feel like there's a chance of anything working if you don't give anything a reasonable try.

Now given the A, he might not have wound up feeling like anything was working even if he did make a reasonable effort, but since he didn't, we don't know and it's not reasonable to presume that.


Again, it's not reasonable to presume the A was the one and only real reason, since he never gave it a reasonable chance himself.


Yeah, I saw that, and it was cool. Very gutsy of him. Then I saw she'd been soft-pedaling over his rages during that time, so it turns out he was less cool and less gutsy than I'd thought. However, I'm in total sympathy with a BS doing a little screaming immediately following D-Day, even though that's very un-MB of me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Good thing I never said that then. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Oops, actually I did, in his FU thread, but not in this one. In this one I said he displays classic domestic abuser thinking and behaviors, which he does.


True, but I really don't think that kind of minimizing is all that helpful right now -- he's plenty good at doing way too much minimizing on his own.

TD, I'm with those who would rather talk about what to do now and in the coming days and weeks. It's going to be stressful, so let's work on managing that.

So, what's the plan for making sure you never, ever again, for the rest of your life, make one of your nasty little comments that you posted you have a massive history of making?