Dang, why do my threads always blow up?


What I need right now is advice from people who have been where I am and from people who have been where my W is.
Would everyone please limit their replies to focus on this?


Unfortunately I have depressing, bad news.


I met my W and kids for dinner on my way home from work last night. I actually felt very anxious in a good way to see W. I had gone to the gym, felt good, and my mood was positive. We were eating dinner and I asked the question I ask about every day. "No contact today, right?" And whammo, "He called".


OM called my house in the afternoon while I was at work. OK, so I figured a quick 1 minute conversation of "we are through, it was wrong, don't EVER try to contact me again, PERIOD". No, it was a 15 minute conversation. She said she spent most of the time telling him how kind I have been to her, how I have shown her how deeply I love her. She told him how we were trying to save our M. OM told her his M probably wasn't going to make it. She says she told him that he needed to try to save his M, and gave him suggestions on how to try. He told her that his W had control of his secret email account, and she offered up to him that I had control of hers. He said he had tried to call her on the "love phone", a pre-paid Trac phone he had bought her and they had used for the A. She offered up to him that I had the phone. Why did she have to tell him about the email and phone? In my mind it could be to let him know that it was not safe to use them to contact her.
She said at the end He told her he loved her. She said she told him that "she could not say that back to him". She also admitted that she did not tell him to never contact her again "I don't think he will so why do I need to tell him that?"


So, of course it upset me. I told her that I was not mad at her, but disappointed. I said I expected that out of OM, a liar, cheater, dishonest person who would want to carry on the A, but not out of a W who says she wants to do everything she can to save her M.


I told her that I had to call him and tell him to never contact my W again. She was adamat that I do not call. She said " I am not your property". I said no you are not, but as long as you are my W, he is disrespecting ME by contacting you just as much as he was by pursuing you and having an A with you. If you don't want to tell him NC that is your choice. But I will not continue to allow this mis-treatment of ME.


She said if I called and let his W know it would end any chance they have of saving their M. I said it shows me where your head is at that you can continue to justify deciet and dishonesty for him. Who is my W to decide what his W should and should not know? Why can't she know THE TRUTH? How fair is it to OM's wife if she tries to save her M based on continued dishonesty and deciet?


W said OM and his family were just leaving last night for a family vacation to FLA and that if I called it would ruin their trip. Kind of like how he ruined MY family trip to FLA that my W cancelled, blamed me for having to cancel it, when in reality she was deep in an A?


I told her how hurtful is was to see that she still places her concerns for him over me and our M. It was all about his M, his family vacation, etc...


Then the rest of the night I had to watch her agonize over the whole deal. And I know she is hurting. And I don't like to see her in pain because I do love her. But it is very hard for me to take it knowing her hurt is caused by her feelings of love for him and for "what might have been, or what still could be".
Where is the hurt over what she has done to me and our family? It was very present the first 2-3 days after D-Day, but haven't been much evident since then.


In the middle of the night she waked me and asked me to hold her. I held her as long as she would let me. I asked her what I could do for her, she said "Pray for me". I pray for her all the time.


Consistently since D-DAy I have told her multiple times a day that I love her dearly, that I want more than anything for our M to make it. I rarely get this from her. I show her constant affection, because I want to. She shows me SOME affection, but not a great deal.


Yes this whole thing has made me angry. But it is more hurt than anger.
How can I committ to her and our M when it is obvious that her heart is elsewhere?


We started dating 18 years ago, we have been married 12 years. But now she has a relationship with a guy for 6 friggin weeks and her feelings for him are so strong that they override the 18 years we have been together? So strong that she is torn about saving her M and family of 3 kids?


I can't help but wonder if maybe it would be better for me to move on and find a new relationship with someone who I would know is with me because they want to be with me. Who loves me because they truly feel that way. Yes, I know that at my age of 35 the women I would meet would most likely been divorced and have baggage. But my W and I will have serious baggage from now on as well. And maybe a women who has been cheated on, like I have, will share my steadfast knowledge that I could NEVER do that. And that would help me feel more secure in the relationship.


I know that I love W so much, but how much can I take? At a certain point I have to decide how much damage I am willing to allow to be inflicted upon me in order to try to save my M.


I know my W will read this and feel further hurt and despair, and that is not my point in saying all this.


I know, truly know, that if my W truly wants to save our M, can truly love me again, that I can let this A go (not let it go, but deal with it) and be a better husband for her.


And I will be calling OM. I cannot let this pass. He tried to open the door again yesterday. By him telling her that his M is not going to work out and that he still loves her, it is clear that he wants to keep their relationship a possibility in her mind. It was just 2 weeks ago that they were talking about being together forever after they got me and his W out of the picture. On D-Day he told her "now it is out in the open, so now nothing is stopping us from going ahead with our plans".
And I can't stop him from pursuing that, only she can and she is obviously not willing to do that right now. But I can tell him that I will slam the door shut on his friggin head as long as I am her H. If she doesn't like that, then she can be free from me (D). I have to be willing to do that (D) as well. I will not allow myself to be held hostage to my feelings for her, or my feelings of insecurity and fear of being alone without her.

TD,

I'm really sorry to hear that your W is making these poor choices.

I won't provide any advice just my sympathy. I have no experience with A's so I'll leave that to the posters that have.



I don't know how helpful this will be but it may be important to recognize that anger (especially in a man) is sadness or depression turned outward. You need to find ways to soothe yourself. You need to find a way to grieve over your hurt.

I think it's important for you to find a private place to do this. It has to be hard posting here hoping to eliminate some of the hurt knowing full well the person causing you this pain will read it. Any chance you've got someone to talk privately with? Someone who has a kind ear but also is very pro-marriage?

Tired Dad,

I know how much this contact bothers you, it's feels like D-Day all over again. I went through it a couple times too.

All I can offer here is to tell you that contacting OM will accomplish nothing...you can warn him off if you like with a quick "Call my W again and I inform your W of what you are doing"

But it likely wont do any good...and you'll have to inform his W anyway...that is the really sucky part. I hated having to call the married OM's wife because I knew nothing I had to say did anything but hurt.

Why do you still have the trac-phone TD? Don't you have a lake somewhere you can toss it in?

Why don't you have all his numbers blocked on your home and cell phones as well?

Yes he can get around it but then you just keep blocking numbers, it will help...you anyway.

Alright Bud, she is still there so you have that much to work with..just be careful with the LB's brutha and kinda tone it down with the ILY's..

Good luck

Tired Dad -

I hope that you will make a firm committment to start the work of saving your marriage. I thnk that you have an excellent chance of doing that, especially with your wife reading and posting here too.

Right now it seems to you like your wife is not putting in too much effort, but that is fairly typical. There have been tons of people here that were the same way, and now are happily recovering.

If you can arrange it, I would really suggest that you get an appointment with the Harley's. They can talk to you both, and get this recovery rolling.

TD,

Nothing by the way of advice but wanted to throw out some support. I think it's really sad the way your posts get TJed the way they have. It really doesn't serve you well. I commend you for coming back and starting a new post. I hope the TJing and arguing will stop and people who have the same goal in mind (helping you) will respect each other and you will get the solid advice and support you need. There is alot of good advice in your other posts but you shouldn't have to dig through the muck to find it.

Still rooting for you from over here and sending big hugs.

Symphony

Hi, T-D. It hurts just to read your reports, it is almost unimaginable to think of living it. I want you to know we're here cheering for you. Yeah, your threads sure do cause a lot of commotion, though!

I want to suggest again that you seriously consider calling the Harleys to set up some phone counselling. You could say, 'he wrote the book'...

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TD,

I am afraid that your WW might not have been truthful about all that was said in the phone conversation. The reason that I state this is because she seems to be still hiding something when she doesn't want YOU to call.

I really don't think she is as finished with him as she lets on. Has she sent a NC letter? Have you informed his wife of the affair? She seems to still be shielding the OM. The comment about him not calling again...is pure BS. He hasn't been told in no uncertain terms to NOT call, so you can bet that he will. She is leaving that door open.

Now...I know that this might sound judgmental, however I think that it might fit. You outed your W...you busted her with the emails. Mere hours before you found them she was adamant about the marriage being over. Mere minutes AFTER you busted her, she is singing a different song. Had you not found them, I can imagine that it would still be going on. She was contrite because she was caught...not because it was the right thing to do. She said what she needed to say because she was caught.

She is starting to backpedal now. You can review her initial "busted" post and see how she has regressed (behavior-wise) in the "wanting recovery" department.

First and foremost I would recommend a NC letter...and a phone call to his wife from YOU.

JMHO
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OKay, well, gosh, I just feel the need to post my feelings on what happened yesterday with the phone call. First of all, I was honest with my husband about the call. I could have very easily lied to him about it, and he would have bever been the wiser. But I didn't. I told him the truth. He did not give me one little bit of credit about my being honest with him, not one crumb, just spent the evening running me down for even talking to FOM. I was also honest with him about my conversation with him. I had been praying that if FOM contacted me, God would lead me in what I said. I felt that HE did that. OM called to see if I was okay, and if H was treating me okay. I then went on to tell him how kind H was being, how I was just blown away by how he could be that way after what I had done, and how I've come to see just how much my H has to love me to be able to do that. I told OM that I was committed to trying to save my marriage, and he said that he thought that was a good thing. I encouraged him to do his best to save his marriage. That I felt that his wife really did love him, she just needed him to show her that he was willing to go the extra mile for her right now. I also encouraged him to go to a Christian counselor to help them get on the right track. He did tell me that he loved me, but that he wanted what was best for me, and that it sounded like trying to save my marriage was just that. He never suggested we get together, never suggested we begin affair again, and actually said he would never drag me into that mess again. He also said that my H was a better man than him. I felt like I had some closure after I got off the phone, and that I had done the Christian thing to a fellow human being. HOwever, now with my H threatening to call OM, that closure has been blown out of the water, and I am a nervous wreck all over again. And the thing is, when I got off the phone with OM, I did not have the urge to call him back or go see him, I wanted to talk with my H. Just wanted to hear his voice. I did not tell him about the call until he got home from work because I knew he would freak out at work and not be able to do his job. My not wanting him to call OM or OM's wife has nothing to do with protecting OM, it has to do with not causing anymore trauma to their family. His wife is leaning toward divorce, and something like that would surely push her there. When I talked to OM, he was agreeing with me to do the things he needed to do to see if his marriage could be saved. He won't even get that chance if H makes one of those phone calls. I told H to examine his motives for wanting to make those calls, because I don't feel at all that they are to "protect" OM's wife, but simply to get back at OM, and then his kids could pay a dear price. I know OM made the choice to get involved in this affair, and that is a horrible, decietful thing, but I do truly want to see his marriage work, his kids deserve a family with a mom and dad, married and in a loving relationship, just like me amd T_D's kids do. I just think there is so much pain to go around as it is, that why cause more if it's not really necessary. I feel like T_D wanting to make that phone call has nothing to do with our marriage, or OM's wife, but everything to do with his wounded pride. I know the pain to his pride must be excruciating, and I'd give anything to take that away, but I don;t think causing more pain to others is going to help. it.

BT, you are justifing your actions IMHO. OM'W deserves to know what is going on in HER M. She has the right to know that contact is still going on. You should have cut off or not answered the phone when you realized it was OM. This is disrespecting your H. You will not get through withdrawl if you have continued C.

I felt like I had some closure after I got off the phone, and that I had done the Christian thing to a fellow human being. HOwever, now with my H threatening to call OM, that closure has been blown out of the water, and I am a nervous wreck all over again.

Are you now going to blame TD for you not having this so-called "closure"? You will NOT have closure as long as you are in contact with this OM...be it phone or otherwise.

AND...to be perfectly frank, it isn't your place to "minister" to this OM...I don't think that God is calling you to do that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Using God in this way is really heinous if you ask me. If that isn't some typical WS babble I don't know what is.

JMHO
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BT - You can not have any contact with the OM if you want to save YOUR marriage. You have no control over HIS marriage. What goes on in his marriage is between him and his wife...not you! You have to keep OM out of your marriage and stay out of his. His wife deserves to know the truth about her husband. You are not their protector...you are the person that came into their marriage and helped destroy it, just like OM came into your marriage helped destroy it. Keep loving your husband and working on your marriage and forget about theirs.

TD - Sounds like you need to talk to a counselor. You seem to have a lot of hurt and anger still...which is totally understandable!!! Find someone to talk to so that you can get your feelings in check. You have to have a level head and be able to talk to your wife without always judging her. She told you about her phone conversation...give her a little credit.

You guys need to talk to each other and actually listen to what the other person is saying.

All of this is JMHO and I am rooting for any couple that is working on saving their marriage.

Okay, TD, first, I'm going to repost from the other thread:

I'm sorry I have not had the chance to catch up on reading yet, so I can't say much about your past posts.


This is classic. She is missing OM. Bad news, I know. But affairs are addictive and you stated some of the reasons why in a paragraph of yours I quoted below. It's unreal. It's all fantasy. So, now, your W is in withdrawal. Tell me, has she written a NC letter? Is she maintaining NC? It's good you are noticing her moods, because this can be an indicator into her keeping NC.

BTW, you are doing this the hard way. The BEST way is the way you two are ending the affair, but the hard way, because when affairs die naturally, it's because the real world has entered the relationship. It's like ending any relationship really, and there's a finality to it, whereas if it's end is demanded somehow, there is no closure.


Yes, exactly. She's got stresses with you, plus the fact that you weren't meeting her ENs out of anger.

I'm sorry you were depressed. Are you willing to consider natural or medical intervention for that?


It's okay not to trust her just now. Harley says that trust is EARNED. She has lost the right to your trust by having an affair. A fantasy relationship based on lies.


This is okay too. Just keep your eyes on where you need to go and you will get there, even if you get hung up occasionally.

Now, about your independence. Have you discussed with your wife the things you would like to do alone? If she's interested, this type of RC could help rebuild your marriage.

I believe that nearly all the EN's are interrelated. You can fulfill so many just by doing RC (if you get to chat or touch affectionately while doing it). Maybe you can POJA new things to do together.

~ZP

Did you guys write a NC letter together? if not do that tonight and send it via registered mail! There are examples of NC letters here on the site...If you have to, change your home number...she should not have picked up the phone yesterday, but she did...this takes you back to square one now...all the work you did last week is null and void...this is day 1 of recovery all over again...

If he continues to call the house, change the number...do not call him...it will not accomplish a thing...

You have no idea what I am thinking or even remotely who I am. I am a unique individual who may respond to things differently than others in the same situation. Everytime something like this is posted, it causes huge distress for my H, and that leads to problems for us. I am sincere in my desire to save our marriage. I have no doubt about that. However, all the issues I had with my H before my affair are still there. The first couple days after the affair was discovered, my H and I were both on emotional roller coaster, not to say that we aren't now, but that was an all time high. I was so floored by his being able to be kind to me that gave me the ability to be more enthusiastic towards him, and it was sincere. Now, the real work has began, and although I am still very grateful for this second chance that I really don't deserve, I still have to deal with all the issues from pre-A. There is an emotional wall there, and it's been there for quite some time. I had been asking H to go to couseling for years, had almost left several times in the past couple years, cried myself to sleep lots of nights. That stuff doesn't just disappear. So, no, I am not backpedaling about anything, I am just trying to deal with this chaotic mess of emotions inside of me the best that I can. It does feel ackward sometimes to be affectionate because it's been so long since we've been that way, but I am trying. I pray that the more we do it, the more natural it will feel. It is not a good feeling to feel ackward about giving affection to you husband, and I wish I didn't feel that way. I can't just be the person he needs me to be at the drop of a hat, but I can try my best to move towards being that person on a daily basis, and that's what I am doing. He has the huge issue of my affair to deal with, and it trumps all, I am sure, but I have the issues of his pornography addiction and years of emotional unavailibility un his part, which have left lots of scars. I have some fears, too, just like he does, but not for the same reason. I was deeply unhappy for quite some time, and had told him many times "I can't live like this anymore, we have to do something" with little or no response on his part. My fear is that I give this marriage my all, and then I am the same lonely person I have been for a while a year from now. T_D says he will never go back to being the person he was to me again, and I know he is sincere in his belief, but the baggage I carry is going to take some time to get rid of, just like the baggage I have caused him to carry will take a lot of time to deal with. My whole point in all this is that you do not know the dynamics of our marriage, or know T_D and myself, for that matter. It is hurtful for me to be doing the best that I can in the situation I am, to really be giving my most sincere effort, and then have people on here tell him I am "backpedaling" or "leaving the door open." I want my marriage to work. We start counseling Thursday, and hopefully they can guide us in the right direction as to how to deal with all this.

Well, I've been here a long time, and I want to suggest that you two stay off each other's threads, esp if things start to careen out of control. No demanding, just requesting from either of you. H/W feuds carry over the board too, which may be some of why your threads are so explosive.

Now, I will not be posting to your wife for the most part and here is why: I do not want to color my posts to you with biases of mine about her. I also don't want you to catch me "fussing" at your wife about something and use it as an excuse not to change something, as this seems to be a weakness for you. Don't worry about that PLEASE. Just recognize it as a possible pitfall for you and work to avoid it. You are not alone in that because I have used the same excuse in my marriage and continue to work to eliminate it.

Okay, now I'll read this thread before I post again.

~ZP

TD, almost exactly the same thing happened with my XW. A couple of weeks after d-day, OM called her. She claimed she told him she didn't want anything more to do with him. She sounded sure of herself, and sure of what she wanted to do. Two weeks later she was hooking up with him in the woods. She was watching me, so carefully. You could have fooled me at the time, but she was watching, waiting for me to be just one millimeter off from being the perfect man. Being human, I gave her what she wanted.


She needs to take that leap, no doubt.


I think you shouldn't focus on OM this way. What's the point? To scare him? To speak your mind? You have too much pride in this.


She does not know this. His W has the right to know about OM's shenanigans.


DJ


Don't contact his W for revenge. Contact her out of compassion.


You have read her mind and made another DJ.


Your taker talking. Put him to sleep!


Maybe you could use a lighter touch these days. Mellow out. She knows you love her.


Taker again.


Because she is making the choice to love you. That means a ****** of a lot more than some infatuation.


Yes! Have you ever read about the chemistry of love? There are three components. There's sexual attraction, there's the "in love" feeling, and there is the long-term attachment you form after being together for two or three years. Each of these three stages has its own purpose in nature. The second, the "in love" part, is associated with powerful emotions, and is a sort of chemical dependency. It's an addiction to the brain chemistry that occurs when you're with the person you have these feelings for. Maybe this stage of love is so powerful because in nature it occurs during pregnancy and the care of infants - a time when it's important for both partners to be driven to care for and protect one another and their unborn or newly born children.


I'd rather have someone who chooses to love me than to have someone who loves me because she can't help herself. The one who chooses to love you stays when times get rough. The other gratifies your ego and jumps on you every night, which is cool, but without making a conscious choice to stay with you through thick and thin, she does not last.


Certainly true. If you've already reached that point, you're not gonna make it. If your M is going to survive, it's going to be a struggle for a while. You must not be so impatient. You must be prepared to suffer and grieve. Your old marriage is gone.

GC

It is hurtful for me to be doing the best that I can in the situation I am, to really be giving my most sincere effort, and then have people on here tell him I am "backpedaling" or "leaving the door open.

Then why are you taking phone calls from the OM? Why haven't you told him to not contact you? Why aren't you supporting TD and his desire/need to tell this OM to not call HIS house?

The OM's soul is NOT your business. If your "closure" has been compromised it isn't because TD wants to call the OM. It is because you got your OM "fix" with the call and you are back to square one.

Just because I don't "know" your situation does not mean that I cannot "see" what could be happening.

committed

BT,

I think that you might want to start your own thread to discuss this. TD needs to find out how to deal with this without your interference.

If you need to defend yourself, you need to tell HIM. If you need help finding the words, you can tell the board. But you run the chance of derailing this thread, which is about TD handling the situation HE is in. Another thread can help you to deal with the situation YOU are in.

~ZP

T_D,

First, I have been in the same situation as you. For over a year there were promises of NC from my wife. Many phone calls where my W or OM would call and say how much they wanted the other to be happy. IMVHO it wasn't God leading your W in what to say, it was her selfish wants. I know it sucks. I think you did the right thing and handled yourself very well. Don't buy the line that its over if you call him....just rhetoric on her part.

edited to add...If the OM's trip to FLA is close to Tampa I can drop by the vacation spot and pass on a message from ya. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Breaking,

A married man, whom you had an A with, called your house and told you that he loved you. Do you not see the need to let his wife out of the dark on this. The wife needs to know and if telling the truth T_D gets to rattle the OM's cage a little....good on him.

I don't think for a minute you H cares what a great guy the OM thinks he is. The whole time you werepraising your H you were doing something that you had promised not to do and knowing that it would "hurt his pride."


He posts because he doesn't know how to handle what you did. He wants to lash out and be angry but knows that it wouldn't do good. He posts because he doesn't know how to handle 3 people in the marriage.

Untill you have NC ,REAL NO CONTACT, the pre-A issues will be difficult to tackle. T-D can't work on his issues pre-A if every week or so you kick him in the nuts.

I wish you guys the best. None of this is easy.

It seems that both or you want the marriage to work but sometimes focusing on recovery gets in the way of recovery.
Hopefully the counseling gets each of you to take a step back and see the big picture.

God Bless,

Doug

Everytime something like this is posted, it causes huge distress for my H, and that leads to problems for us


No..I will not accept responsibility for that..nor guilt..because I have not earned it. The distress there is of your own making (yours and his). It has nothing to do with me.

You have no idea what I am thinking or even remotely who I am. I am a unique individual who may respond to things diferently than others in the same situation.

Not to take away from your own uniqueness...you have to realize that you are just one of the many WS on this board that have said and done the very same thing. Not so unique when you have been on this board for as long as some of the posters have.

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