My wife was a victim of child rape by her uncle at the age of ten or so. She only regained the memory about six weeks ago and the knowlege has been devastating for her. She is having to deal with this enormous horror at the same time she needs to be dealing with the issues of her affair. Her load is great and it hurts me to see my beloved wife in so much pain. On top of everything else she was raised as a virtual foster child in Africa never living in one home for more than a few years. Both the rape and her upbringing led my wife to separate herself from her feelings and to basically isolate herself from the rest of the world emotionally.

I SO want to help my wife heal from the effects of her rapes both because I love her and also because I have put my own issues concerning her affair on hold while she deals with the damage her uncle caused. The problem is that when the pain bubbles to the surface she withdraws into herself and I am unsure of what I can do to help her carry her burden.

So my question is this; What can I do to give comfort and support to my wife when I see her so obviously hurting? I tell her I love her at such times but words don't seem to reach her and physical contact such as hugging is definately unwelcome. I am here for her and I want to give her myself to lean on and as much of my strength as I can. What has worked for you? Kath, if you're still with me look for posts by baba. I know she reached out on the GQ forum but I have kept my word and not looked for or read her posts. Talk to you soon.

Campdog--

I'm here. This is a quick response just to let you know I found the thread. I need to take some time to think about your question. For me it was important to not be abandoned again when the pain of the memories was surfacing, but I know what you mean about physical contact being too much. There were times when I wanted to be held but also couldn't allow it. I'll ask my husband for his input about what he's done that seemed to be helpful. Even now I will still have triggers, so I'll try to identify what is helpful in those situations. I know that what has helped me may be different than what your wife needs, but hopefully there will be some similarities, something that will help.

I think that your desire to support her is the most important thing of all. Over time as she realizes that you are a safe person, she can start to trust you. It takes a while, though, to overcome a lifetime of conditioning. At some point, the fact that you are still there for her, in spite of her betrayal of you, will register for her.

I'll be back when I feel like I've got more of an answer. Campdog, I marvel at your dedication to doing the right thing.

Campdog -

Your wife needs professional counseling. You can support her, but probably can't really help her too much.

It is likely that she feels no ownership of her body, like most healthy people do. The abuse has taught her this. Her body is up for grabs.

The best thing for her would be a women's support group with others that are going through this.

Thanks Kath, I knew I could count on you. I appreciate your taking the time to give me a thoughtful answer. I know the answers that are to be found in the literature and websites but your words are invaluable to me. I myself marvel at the kind of woman who can reach out to others as you do. For my own part there is nothing marvelous in doing what I'm doing. I love my wife deeply and when she hurts I hurt.

believer, my wife IS in counseling and I believe it was the counseling that enabled her to bring forth the memories she suppressed for so long. Her counselor is the same man who helped me deal with my own childhood abuse. In my case it was emotional and physical, not sexual, and he helped me find the way to becoming the man I am today. I pray that he can help my beloved in the same fashion. For now I am just searching for a way to help her carry the burden she has carried for so long. In doing so I hope to lay down my own burdens and build the marriage we both deserve.

Campdog, I just want to let you know that I’ve sent a lengthy response to your W’s thread, but I don’t know if it was helpful to her since she never really replied on my post. Here is the link to the post I've sent to her. Maybe you can take a look at the post and also read the links I’ve provided. I just think the more insight and understanding you have on this type of abuse, the better you will be able to support and understand your W throughout her healing process. I agree with Katch that your desire to support your W is the most important thing of all.

Blessings,
Suzet

I forgot to add something to my previous post:

I just feel a bit concerned about the fact that your W receive counseling from a male therapist... I believe this person is a wonderful counselor since he was very helpful to you dealing with your own abuse issues, but because he is a male figure, this can possibly prevent your W from totally opening up towards him. Remember, at this point she have deep settled issues (including trust issues) towards men because of the past sexual abuse and maybe it will be better for your W to see a same sex therapist if there is not enough progress in her current counseling with this person.

The other danger of counseling with an opposite sex person is that clients often “fall in love” with their therapist. This phenomenon (of clients “falling in love” with opposite sex therapists) is very common. This happen because clients and therapist work closely together on emotional level during intense therapy and often the client become attached and dependent on the therapist for a while. Remember, your W is very vulnerable at this stage and the abuse has created certain weaknesses/vulnerabilities in her. Therefore, any opposite sex attention she receives on this stage (even from a counselor) can be potentially dangerous and create unnecessary problems.

I just want you to keep the above things in mind.

Suzet

Hi Suze, thank you for your help. I always get a lot out of your posts and they have certainly helped me in the past.

I told my wife what you said and she said that she hasn't been online lately. I clicked on your link and read your post. It was very helpful as always and I'm going to read the links you provided as soon as I finish this post. I was honor bound NOT to read the rest of my wife's thread without her permission since I made a promise not to do so. My wife is VERY resistant to reaching out for help from anybody and I don't want my presence in her thread to inhibit her. I think talking with you and some of the others would greatly help her deal with the issues stemming from her affair if only she would put out her hand. I don't think she has so far. I also provided her with links to child rape survivor's groups but I don't believe she has used them either. I think part of the problem may be that English is a second language for her and she has difficulty expressing herself in writing. Please don't abandon her, she has SO much on her plate right now.

When we made the decision to go from joint marriage counseling to IC with the same therapist he offered to send my wife to a female therapist he reccomended. My wife declined and opted to stay with him. I have subsequently asked her if a female counselor would be more comfortable for her and she replied that she felt fine with who she had. I don't fear her falling in love with our therapist because for one I have been seeing him for over two years and I know he would be able to deal with the situation should it occur. He's been in practice for over 25 years and he's REAL good at what he does. He has also told us both about the danger of therapists themselves abusing survivors of child rape and that it is the #1 trigger for doctors taking unethical advantage of their patients. In the second place, for my own part, if there is any further infidelity in our marriage we are finished, period, and my wife knows this. She is a grown woman with children and as bOb has so rightly pointed out I am her husband, not her father. I can't stop her from doing anything nor can I MAKE her do anything. I can only pray for her and for our marriage and do the right thing myself. I tend to believe that my wife is dedicated to making our relationship work but her reaction to her horrific childhood influenced our marriage pre A, contributed to her having an affair and is affecting our recovery efforts.

There are certain people here whose words and influence I have come to respect and trust. You are one of those people Suze and when I speak of my MB support group in my mind I include you. I know you have much to offer my beloved. I can only tell you what she tells me. Hang in there. Have patience and don't give up on her. She is doing the best she can.

Campdog I would also recommend the book Allies In Healing by Laura Davis. Its for Partners like you and I dealing with this stuff. It is very very helpful as your natural tendencies to respond may be different to what the book advises.

Campdog,
I believe I have written to you before but thought I would once again jump in here.
As a survivor of sexual, physical, and emotional abuse I feel for you and your wife. If she is just beginning the process of learning suppressed memories, you both are in for a long haul. I read the book "The Courage to Heal" by Laura Davis and Ellen Bass. There is a chapter for spouses that have been there to give you advice. There is also "Allies in Healing" by Laura.
They do list a few things that might help, these are quotes from the book:
Listen: sit with her and let her talk
Try to understand: Be as compassionate as you can
Ask her what she needs: Offer extra comfort
Dont ignore it: Make room for her feelings
Dont try to smooth it over and make it better
Reassure her: Tell her it is ok to feel her feelings
Get help yourself if you start feeling shaky
Be patient
Lighten her load when you can: Take on extra housework, do more child care, cook her a hot meal.

It seems that this "new" discovery is called the crisis period. It is the absolute worst. You need to look at it that way too, it is another crisis in your marriage as the affair also is. It is a twofold problem.

In the book one partner put it this way...If someone had shown me the job description for being a partner of an incest survivor, I never would have signed up for the job.

You need to find other men are going thru this too. You also need to know that just like the affair, you have a choice. You do not have to go this road with her. It is your choice too.

I was on the receiving end of the affair. I had my trust smashed by the one person who was supposed to "protect and love" me. He betrayed me then, but is willing to go this road with me. I made him read the partners section first, and still today remind him that he does not have to stay with me during this. It is hard for him to understand what any abuse is about, and when he thinks about it he gets angry about it. That makes it worse for me.

You seem like a sincere and wonderful partner for her to have. I hope that she has other Survivors she can talk to. Because going it without that help, even with counseling, is too rough with the affair also. My counselor told me I had to chose between dealing with the affair, or dealing with the abuse. No one person can deal with both and come out with a positive result on either one.

Please get the books and read them with her. You might learn a heck of a lot, and she will to. Look at her as a survivor and not a victim. She needs love and support, not pity.
Best of luck.
JE

Campdog,

I will admit that I do not know your story....but reading your title and this thread reminded me of someone who was around when I started posting.....

His name was Stunned Dad....then Stunned-Dad-Fast-Recovering

His WW had also experienced sexual abuse as a child, and it played a large role in their M.

Here is a link to some of his posts. Hopefully you might be able to find something of value in his posts. I don't believe he posts anymore on MB....I heard he graduated to the MB Reunion board which I am (unfortunately) unfamiliar with.....

Anyhow, hope this helps....

Stunned Dad

Campdog--

You've been getting really good advice. I second the recommendation of "Allies in Healing", and I agree that counseling is crucial. Your counselor sounds very good. I was concerned by the fact that he is male, simply because I think it's harder to be "real" with a male counselor when you've been sexually abused. I know that for me, I had my guard up and wasn't able to really trust the male counselors I went to, but I only realize that now, looking back. At the time I wouldn't have been able to see that. But he sounds very good, and if your wife is comfortable with him then there's no reason to push that issue. A word of caution about support groups. I found that sometimes they reinforce a victim mentality, where everyone sits around comparing notes and almost competing to see whose story is worse. It's hard to move forward in that atmosphere! I've particpated in several, and I would urge your wife to be very cautious. I think they can be a wonderful source of support, it just depends on the makeup of the individual group. I found one that was very empowering and kept the focus on moving forward and learning new skills and new ways of coping with life to replace the ways we had learned that really didn't serve us anymore. It all depends on the group leader and where she allows the group to focus. I might actually wait a while for a group, since this is all so new for your wife.

Some thoughts about supporting during actual flashbacks or when the emotions are overwhelming. I didn't want to be left alone, but it was also too overwhelming to have my husband try to hold me. I appreciated when he stayed in the room and kept telling me that he was there and that he wouldn't let anyone hurt me and that everything was going to be okay. He would talk to me as if I were the four year-old that I really felt like I was during those episodes.

Something that was really important were my husband's facial expressions when I would describe the abuse. The details are horrifying, but if his face reflected that, I thought he was angry and disgusted by me. I wasn't able to understand that it was the abuse that angered and disgusted him. It is so important to keep your response compassionate and respectful so she doesn't feel even more ashamed than she already does. The more you're able to do that the safer she'll feel talking to you. I found that I needed to describe it over and over. I really appreciated my husband's willingness to listen. I still have to re-hash it, everytime I hear a story in the news, I need to talk it through and say, "That's what happened to me." Especially for your wife and for me, when we buried it for so many years, there's a huge need to be allowed to talk about it seemingly constantly. I think "Allies in Healing" talks about the partner setting limits, and of course that's appropriate, too. Sometimes my husband just couldn't hear it anymore, and I understood that.

Some thoughts about the relationship in general. As I've been reading Harley's books, I have been amazed to see how helpful his advice is for couples dealing with abuse. How I wish we had known about LB's and EN 13 years ago! Something that has also shocked me is that I was behaving like a WW, even though I didn't have an affair. As I've read some of the threads in this forum, I can't believe some of the things the WW say to their husbands, and I remember saying them to my husband. Things about the horrible state of our marriage being all his fault, that if he were a better husband I would be happy, that he was abusive, etc. None of which were true, but at the time I thought they were. I was ready to divorce and moved out twice because I thought he was such a horrible person. Anyway, I can really see how the MB advice for BH husbands would have been right-on for our situation, too. So, even if you're trying to focus on the abuse right now, and not the affair, I think the advice is still exactly what you need. I'm trying to think of what specifically I think is so helpful (and trying to focus with my five year-old trying to type on the keyboard as well...).

Recognizing and avoiding love-busters helps your wife feel safe with you. It's not fair, but I know I had zero tolerance for my husband getting frustrated. Anytime he seemed upset, it was magnified in my perception and I thought he was going to hurt me. I would wince and cower, even though he has never physically hurt me and has never given me reason to think that he would. So as he has elminated disrespectful judgements, etc., it has helped me feel much safer with him. It's like there's no room for even normal frustration when you're dealing with someone that was raped as a child. She will perceive your negative reactions to be much more than they are, and that can reinforce a perception that all men are bad.

POJA is helpful, because I had no idea how to recognize what I wanted or needed. I had no sense of myself as a separate person that could have her own opinion. So we had situations where my husband thought he asked what I wanted, but I said what I knew he wanted, because I didn't know what I wanted. So then I was resentful that we didn't do what I wanted, while he was thinking that we had agreed mutually. The idea of enthusiastic agreement focuses on that, and I think it helps me picture better whether I have tuned in to what I want. "Am I enthusiastic about this?"

Okay, time to get my little guy to bed, it's way past bedtime. Campguy, I hope this is helpful. Again, the most important thing your wife needs is your support and you're giving her that. I have more to say, so I will return in a day or two (we'll be travelling tomorrow).

Campdog,

I’m so glad you find my posts helpful and it is a privilege for me to know that I’m one of the people in your support group. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Please know that I will certainly not give up on your wife. I know her issues will take a lot of patience. I’ve just sent a message on your W’s thread this morning to let her know that I (and others) are here to give her help and listen to her should she ever feel the need to talk to us and reach out for further help.

Take care and blessings. Thanks for taking so good care of your W and your willingness to help & support her through this…this will go a long way towards her recovery.

Suzet

Just a quick note to say that I will be traveling for the next few weeks and won't be posting. I'm NOT dropping out and I'll try to grab an internet connection when I can. Good luck and God's blessings to you all. You will be in my thoughts and in my prayers.

Kath and Suze you are very special ladies and I know it was God's hand that guided you to me. Whatever the future may hold for me I will remember you and your kindness for the rest of my life. Whenever someone tells me life stinks or people are basically rotten I think of people like you two and smile.

-camp

Ladies are you still with me? I hope so.

CD, I'm not a lady, sorry ! But I'm glad to see you drop in.

How are things, sir ?

Hiya bro, I missed ya. I'm truly happy to hear from you. How is it going with you and Squid? I just came back today and only read a little of the posts so I'm not up to speed yet. I Hope everything is better than when I left.

The answer your question is... I really don't know. Tell me how this sounds to you.

My relationship with my wife is better than it has ever been. She is loving, affectionate and caring in ways she never was before. She tells me frequently that she loves me and I KNOW she means it when she says it. She NEVER did this before. One of my issues was that she never replied "I love you too" when I told her I loved her. Of course, I didn't know then that she was involved in a protracted affair but now SHE says it to ME. She still has issues with being touched by anyone but she lays her head in my lap and lets me cuddle her when we are in bed. Again, something that is new in our ten year relationship. She wakes up in the morning and comes to me for a hug and good morning kiss. On the couch or in the car SHE reaches for MY hand where before she always dropped my hand when I tried to hold hers. She doesn't just hold my hand, she caresses and kisses it. There are many many more such signs.

Our sex life is still far from normal but the fact that we have a sex life at all is something to cheer about. Since her recovery of her rape memories we have gone from her just letting me have my way with her to her actually inviting and even initiating sexual activity. She still freezes up or stops in the middle but I know hard it is to recover from childhood sexual abuse and I am fine with going at her pace and giving her all the space she needs.

I would say that we are well on the road to recovery except for one thing. She is still calling him and lying to me about it. For the last two months they have spoken about 8 times a month usually for about ten minutes but on occassion for as long as half an hour. She calls him as well as accepting his calls. I feel like I'm going mad. On one hand I am finally getting to the place in my marriage that I have always yearned for. On the other, as far as I'm concerned, she never broke off the relationship with her partner in adultery. This is something I cannot accept for much longer. I've been watching her like a hawk and she goes out of her way to account for her activities, even providing me with phone numbers for where she is. I'd bet my last dollar that they haven't been together physically. But how long before they are? And then again, if she's lying to me about the calls what ELSE is she lying about?

Our counselor is on vacation until next week. In our last session before he left I made a commitment to wait and speak to him before I did anything about the calls. I had told him I was leaving October first if the calls didn't stop and they haven't. He said that he was amazed at what I had done so far and that I had to do what was best for myself but he also said that he had an urge to beg me for a few more months. He is very experienced in dealing with sexual abuse and is doing IC with my wife on that issue. I am aware that he can only tell me so much without abusing my wife's confidence and breaching his ethics.

So WTF? I really don't know what to do. I am inclined to leave the relationship on principle but if I do I'm convinced there woudn't be any plan B, it would be a permanent split with my older son going with me and my new son going with my beloved wife. I don't know what part her abuse is playing in my wife's inability to break off contact with her partner in adultery. My counselor advised me to try and put the lies on a lower tier for the time being and I trust his judgement completely. What does he know that I don't? If it weren't for this one thing I would be in hog heaven. It aint easy being me.

Well, for sure you need to wait and speak to your counselor about the calls. I would follow his advice.

The MB plan would tell you to gently confront her and let her know how much they hurt you. But since you are paying for counseling, might as well follow that advice.

Hi, Campdog--Welcome back!

It sounds like you've got a very experienced counselor who really gets sexual abuse. I can't help but wonder how much of it for your wife comes back to boundary issues. I know that I never really developed a sense of myself as a separate person who could have her own preferences. As a result, it never occurred to me to say "no" to people. It sounds so strange, and looking back I can't believe I lived like that for so long. But as I remember different boyfriends that I had, I realize that I was very blessed to find guys who didn't take advantage of me. I truly had no ability to say "no", so they were calling the shots. I have really worked to develop boundaries and it has been one of the most important things my counselor focused on with me.

Anyway, this all came back to me as I read about your wife's continued contact with OM. How much of it is because she can't set limits? All the other signs of increased infection from her sound so promising. Only you can decide how much you can take. Lacking a skill is certainly not a justification for inflicting pain on another. I know that I finally had to choose whether to continue hurting my husband or to start to behave differently, no matter what my history was. Hopefully your counselor can help you discern whether she's capable of making that decision yet.

Believer, my wife doesn't know that I know about her calls. Giving her a gentle reminder would, I fear, just make her more careful and drive her deeper underground. I prefer to keep my edge. I don't plan to tell her about my knowlege until I leave or the calls cease.

Thanks for the welcome Kath and thank you even more for sticking with us. It means a lot to me that you're still around, I've thought about you and your words a great deal in the past few weeks. Especially about when you spoke about hitting bottom before recovery could begin.

I'll speak to my counselor about what you said concerning boundaries but it just doesn't sound right concerning my wife. She has very rigid boundaries that no one, including and especially me, can cross. I have seen her relax those boundaries with my children but with no one else. I just plain old have no idea why she would continue calling him when it's so plain what an incredible effort she is putting into improving our relationship. I have taken to saying to her "who are you and what have you done with my wife"? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> It's doubly perplexing when you consider that I have made it clear that I would leave the relationship if she did not break off contact with him. Even taking into account that she doesn't know that I know about the calls what is there that makes my wife willing to risk everything she has to keep speaking to that low down SOB? Is it an abuse issue? Is it because they have a child together? Is it true love? Just writing these words makes me feel like someone is taking a gardening rake to my heart.

I have done my homework on child sexual abuse. I know how long and difficult the road to recovery is. Part of the problem is that I'm aware of just what a devastating effect that abuse has on a child's psyche and I know how hard healing is on my wife. I wouldn't jeopardize that healing for anything but what good is it doing for me to stay in a relationship that may be fore doomed by her actions? Like I said Kath I keep thinking about what you said about my leaving being bottom for my wife. Only thing is I am not yet at the point where I MUST leave, far from it, and I'm afraid of doing more harm than good. What to do? The positive changes in our relationship lately have been to me like water to a man dying of thirst but I so fear the well drying up forever. She did it once. If she continues doing what she is doing I believe that she will do it again. And that WOULD be the end.

Okay, after re-reading your posts, I'll admit that I'm stumped, too. I'm just glad you have a counselor who you trust who's working with both of you. I've mentioned before that I used to perceive my husband as an abuser. Once I had a counselor who I trusted, she worked with both of us, and she finally gave me her opinion that my husband wasn't a bad guy. That was a real turning point for me. So a good counselor who you both trust can make a big difference.

Yes, the idea of hitting bottom is a big one. Be careful that your concern about her healing doesn't lead to protecting her from the consequences of her actions. Sometimes experiencing those consequences leads to the healing. That has certainly been true for me. I also can't imagine how continuing contact with OM can possibly help her heal, it seems that it would just keep her stuck in destructive patterns. She has to decide how badly she wants to heal. I still face a choice every single day, whether to live as a victim, or to live my life in a proactive, productive way. Your challenge is to find the balance between offering the compassion & support that facilitates healing, or enabling that leads to perpetual victimhood.

Campdog, I hope that doesn't sound too harsh. I still marvel that you can do this at all. You have been so good to her and you've come so far. I'm holding my breath, hoping she takes this opportunity and doesn't blow it.