Campdog,

IF you have one brain cell left functioning after all of this listen to K. He has been there and he has done that. Plan B is for you. She is still in the affair, and you have plan a'd all you can. Further, you have a time line to follow and it is a legal one.

In many states you only have a short time to deny paternity and then you are financially responsible for the child for the rest of his/her life. Even if she leaves with OM and marries him. Please see a lawyer if you have not and understand this aspect of your particular states law.

Frankly, Campdog there is nothing left for you to do. Your only hope is that she will end the A, and it must be her idea. It is time for plan B to preserve what little is left of your love. Because if she does decide to come back, you are going to need all you have. You owe her the chance to make this decision and have it work out by preserving your love and that right now means plan B and very very soon.

I believe K is right. She has rape issues, but the issue at hand is her affair and frankly she has seen no consequences from it other than your dispair. Time to let OM meet ALL of her needs and see what that does to her love for him.

God Bless,

JL


PS: Please understand that who ever is with your W the rape issues are still going to be there until she addresses them. OM won't get a bargin if she chooses him. Plan b, and listen to K.

Campdog--

You're right, you have done everything you could do. You have conducted yourself with honor and integrity throughout this nightmare.

Unfortunately, your wife is deluding herself by thinking she can avoid the rape issues. They will always be there, whether she confronts them or not. Yes, healing is painful, but avoidance is more painful. And Just Learning is right on, they will still be there with OM. She will find out what a blessing she has had in you and your efforts to provide a safe space to heal.

Sending prayers and support,
KathCA

Wow, what a response! I want to say how beautiful and precious all of your support is to me. You probably already know that but I needed to say it out loud. The people here are something else. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

K and Forever snuck in between Mimi's post and my response and I never scrolled up to see them until now. That never happened to me before. I'd like to respond to each person in turn for my own benefit as much as anything else. I've said it in other posts but it bears repeating I guess. These threads are serving as my personal journal of this whole horrible ordeal. I started a hand written journal but this website has become my record of my experiences for the future. So I ramble and write incredibly long winded posts. just for the record everything I write here is as honest as I can make it and I bow in respect to anyone who wades through my crap.

K, glad to see you're still with me my friend. I remembered what you had said about being semi retired from these pages and when I didn't hear from you I figured you were gone. Remember my post about you being a smart guy? It's true, you're uncanny. Forgive me if I say that I'm sorry that you couldn't be wrong this one time. You called it when you said September for plan B. I defied you a bit but it looks like I'll be going soon. Only thing is I believe it won't be plan B, it'll be permanent. I believe that the child rape situation has skewed the MB model in my case. It breaks my heart but it is what it is.

Forever, if I resented people posting to my threads I wouldn't post in the first place. I do this because it is a public place and I welcome your words. I know how they are intended and you have my thanks. I think you misunderstood me when you said that I stated that a continuation of the affair was not a possibility. Even if there were no physical contact as far as I am concerned my wife's affair has lasted from the first kiss to the present moment. She NEVER stopped calling him from d-day till now. My wife absolutely believes that she and her lover can go from being friends to screwing for years to having a child and then back to 'friends'. It makes me want to scream. As far as the rape thing goes my counselor, who is VERY experienced in child rape cases, informs me that it isn't uncommon for child rape surviviors to act out their rape on their spouses or partners. Sadly, I am convinced that this is what I experienced. It sure FEELS like I was raped. Finally I am committed to my marriage and to the woman I love. I can deal with the affair, with her having another man's baby, with the long road to healing from her abuse and with anything she could dish out all in the name of Love. But if I try much longer to ignore her affair I will wind up blowing my brains out. And as far as 'trading' my wife in? If I ever get involved with another woman I hope I get run over by a truck.

Now as for you bOb. Don't you dare leave me in ANYBODY'S hands. I depend on you and your keen intellect bro and you're stuck with me. Besides, I LIKE you even if you're NOT a lady <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> But to answer your question I believe that there is no one I can reveal the affair to who will have any influence on my wife's behaviour. For one thing she grew up a virtual foster child and for another people in her culture just don't talk about their feelings. Her family and friends would talk ABOUT her but not TO her. Finally my MC has said that exposure would probably hurt her deeply and not do much to change her behavior. The way he put it was that "**** knows all about shame (talking about her child rapes). How would you feel if you knew you added to it?". NOTHING could induce me to hurt my beloved deliberately and for little benefit to her.

Mimi, Ive been in plan A since 4:00PM om May 11, 2005. I discovered this website sometime in June and after reading everything a couple of times also discovered that I had instinctively been plan A'ing albeit ineffectively. MB and the Harley's books helped me to work through a lot of my issues and to refine my techniques. My wife told me on d-day that she had broken off the affair and we've been groping towards each other ever since. We still live together and share the same bed. I AM saying that I love my newest son whole heartedly. His paternity means little to me. He is a wonderful, intelligent, active, beautiful 10 month old who gets into everything and drives me nuts. I actually have a thread on this theme going in Pregnancy/Child and you can browse it if you have a year or two to spare (it went to 7 pages). The OM knows about the baby. I confiscated a Mother's Day card he handed my wife which refers to "our son" and gushes about the "wonderful gift" she has given him. He has even told my wife that he wants the baby to carry his name! My wife was sneaking him the baby prior to d-day but I can state categorically that he has NOT seen the baby since May 11th. Finally you're right about addiction treatment. I worked with junkies on and off for 20 years and that's how it works. Unfortunately my MC has said that dealing with the abuse has to come before dealing with the affair. Even more unfortunately my wife has told me that she isn't going to tonight's counseling session and probably won't go back at all.

Just, you're right. It's plan B for me in just a little while it seems. But as I said above I think it will NOT lead to anything but divorce. Funny thing is my wife has said from the first that she would NOT go to the OM if we split up. She says that she would just go off by herself and try to work things out alone. She told ME that whatever problems she had would not go away if she were to start another relationship. I know that she'll probably have to use her lover to watch my baby but what can I do? I've been advised that I had little chance of getting custody in court if I'm not the biological father so I can't take him with me. Anyway let her see if he can provide the kind of care I have for ten months. He's 35, unemployed and living at his mother's house.

Finally dear kind brave Kath. Thank you ma'am for everything you've given me and my beloved. I'll never forget you. The latest update is that my wife asked me if we could start over and I said no. I said that we had to come up with something new. She told me that she wouldn't call her lover anymore but had no answer for me when I asked her how I was supposed to believe her now. Of course, if you've read the stuff about transparency and honesty there's a LOT she could do to earn my trust but she doesn't see that and I'm the last one in the world she will take any advice from. We spoke tonight about separating and it was plain to me she was acting from the same old anger mechanisms. She acted like SHE was the one who was being wronged. I told her I didn't want to separate and that I desperately wanted SOMETHING to pin my hopes on but I don't think she heard me. I ended by saying that I loved her deeply and that I was here for her just as always. I said that nothing had changed for me since yesterday, that she was the one who had found out something new. Unfortunately she still believes the problem between us is my knowing about her lies, not the lies themselves. Go figure. She never read your post Kath and I told her you had posted to her thread. I believe she is resisting healing with all her might and I can certainly understand the fear of pain. Especially that kind of pain. But you know as well as I do that she can resist it forever. I can't continue hurting forever.

So there it is my friends. I'm for sure a long winded ******. I'll be here for a while longer yet. I hope I'm in your prayers as you are in mine.

CD

I sthere anyone in OMs life you coudl tell that might apply pressure on HIM to stop contact ?

PS exposure is a controversial technique. I strongly believe I would be divorced by now without it.

YES it hurts WS, but what hurts them teh affair or it publicised ?

Bless you mate. Richly.

Hi, CD.

Sorry I couldn't get to you earlier, but owning your own business can be a task at times.

In any case, you have already been given excellent advice regarding the child, legal advice, and Plan B.

All the best,
Gimble

bOb, I don't think exposing to the OM family would do much good. According to my wife his mother has offered to pay for his court costs to support him in a visitation bid. When I revealed my knowlege of her calls to my wife she DARED me to call her lover's mother's phone. To quote; "she would lay you out".

Anyway I don't really give that much of a damn right now. I'm totally drained and I don't want to deal with this anymore. What difference does it make if he doesn't call her? SHE calls HIM more times than he calls her. I'm thinking if she wants him she can have him.

"according to your wife..."

CD here are some facts I haveheard about OPs situcation from WS since I have been here:

According to WS:

"OM W is near suicidal and would kill herself if you exposed"
"OW H is a psycho and would kill OW if you exposed"
"OW H is divorcing OW anyway so he wouldn't care if you exposed"
"OM and OM W are swingers so they don't care about affairs"

CD every single one of them was heaving, festering bullsh*t - desperation trying to prevent exposure.

The only way you can find out if OMs mother can be an influence in stopping your WWs affair is to call her and ask her.

If she is angry with you what EXACTLY moral high ground can she take with you ? She bred a man who impregnates other men's wives ?

You're a strong man. Call her and find out for yourself.

Campdog, as you know, I have a similar childhood experience than your W and as a result I have VERY MUCH sympathy and empathy for her... And I know I’ve also posted links about the connection between sexual abuse and infidelity (the link to the thread I’ve posted at the start of this thread). Research show there is definitely a connection between serious child abuse and infidelity. This IS a very complex and difficult issue, but let me tell you this:

Your W’s rape issues isn’t an excuse for her to carry on with her A and hurtful behavior towards you. Your W’s rape issues may have played a big role in her infidelity and behavior towards you, BUT this is NOT an excuse for her to carry on with her destructive behavior and you shouldn’t allow and/or endure such behavior anymore.

My words above may sound harsh, but I think maybe the best way to help your W on this point will be to let her help herself. And you can only achieve this by "waking her up" and starting to let her take take full responsibility and consequences for her actions. As much as her child issues and infidelity are intrigued, it's also separate issues and I think it's time to treat it as such.

Campdog,


I'm guessing that everyone who enters Plan B has the deep-rooted fear that it's permanent. The beginning of the end---the start of a divorce you don't want. And that's one reason many people stay in Plan A too long.

Plan B is a protection plan; for you as an individual, as well as for your love for your wife. My belief is that the sooner you get into Plan B, the longer you will be able to wait for the affair to end. The longer period you can give your wife to let this affair burn out, the better. Many are successful in recovering their marriages with this approach (my plan B was only a couple months). Some do a terrific job and aren't successful in restoring their marriages, but they lay the groundwork for healing from the affair and divorce, and are in much better shape to resume their lives knowing that they did the best they could to honor their marital committment.

Get into Plan B, soon. And that would be an appropriate time to contact OM's mommy. I heard the same thing from my wife about her OM's parents (how they would be supportive of their relationship)---I never followed this angle up, but I believe that it was just your typical fog-bound BS from a WS.

When you get a chance would you mind reading this thread ? I'd really like to hear your thoughts on the matter. Thanks guys.

~camp

Posted the above four days ago, found it on page five. My others are even farther back. Did I do something to offend everyone?

CD, just posted to your other thread. Can you give us an update?