<BR>In that thread to hummingbird you said "some marriages don't work out ... that's where I'm at right now .." or something like that ...<P>What did you mean? I'm kinda at odds with my marriage ... again. I'm in such a vicious circle of emotions. I feel like I'm going crazy. <P>Just wanted to know what's going on with you ... and if it's similar ... maybe we can discuss?????????<BR>

Maya:<P>Pardon me jumping in here, but what does "at odds" mean? I hope you're not feeling hopeless. Last I heard, you and H were doing well and you were still exorcising the demons of the OM.<P>Has something changed? Do you need to talk about it? I'm here to listen if you want.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P><BR>

Me too Maya...'hear' too...<P>-janet

Hi LS ....<P>I'm just so sick of the rollercoaster. Yes, things had gotten better, and I guess overall we're fine ... but I'm just so frustrated most the time.<P>I don't have the desire to "work" at this. I don't have the desire to TALK to him, to have him become my best friend. We've never had that kind of marriage ... and I don't see it happening anytime soon.<P>He's so good to me, LS. But there's still something missing, and I'm just not entirely happy. At times I feel trapped .. because I know this is where I'm suppose to be ... and I cannot leave ... but sometimes I just want to be ALONE ....<P>I'm ashamed to say that some of these women who's H's are leaving them .... I'm actually jealous. I'm so messed up and twisted. <P>I want to be left alone ... and I don't understand this. Why am I rocking back and forth?<P>And this has nothing to do with the OM. I still hate him. But I do still dream about the life I thought I'd have ... you know, the FANTASY. But I know THAT guy doesn't exist ... the real live one is a complete and total jerk and I want nothing to do with him.<P>So this isn't about wanting another man. I don't want another man. Sorry, LS, but I don't have alot of FAITH in men ... all the ones in my life have hurt me in one way or another .... I feel safer alone.<P>Yes, I'm screwed up. I just hope D99 doesn't chime in on this one. I'm just being honest. But no, I'm not leaving my H and NO I'm not ever gonna cheat on him again. I learned my lesson there. Besides, there isn't a man on this planet that I'd trust.

Wow.<P>That was big, Maya. I'm really sorry you feel that way. I suppose I can understand it, especially if every man you've ever known has hurt you some way or another. <P>I'll let you in on a little secret. Every woman I've ever known has hurt me too, including Petunia. I've never had a relationship with a woman that I ended. I've always been the dumpee, not the dumper.<P>Ya know what? I'm still okay. If, God forbid, Petunia and I don't end up working out (that seems unlikely ), I know I'd still be able to go on with life, and I know I'd learn to love somebody else. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. <P>But seriously, believe me, I know how frustrated you must be right now. You can't pinpoint WHY you feel so wishy-washy. I know what that's like.<P>Take it from a guy who knows: The grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side. If you were alone, you'd probably be beating yourself up for letting go of your H, a good man by your own assessment.<P>I'm a true believer in the principle of making your own hapiness. There is something in YOU that is making you unhappy, and I doubt that being alone will make you happy. It might, I really don't know.<P>However, I do know that there is nothing quite so comforting as knowing there is someone in the world who loves you for YOU, warts and all.<P>I hope you figure it out, Maya. You're a great person, with a good heart and a level head. You'll pull yourself through, if for no other reason than you HAVE to do it.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P><BR>

Hey Maya,<P>I'm here at work... can't go into big detail... things were better for ONE WHOLE DAY... and then I got the day from hell again. I am feeling very scared about whether or not we can do this. My H is expecting things I can't deliver: like sex every day (and that would have to be at 7:00 am or 11:00 pm since that's the only time we're both home). I could go into an entire diatribe of what happened yesterday alone. It was horrible. Saturday was great, I actually tingled with the love I felt, the hope... and then I got these ultimatums (sp?)... and there were several. <P>I will write again... maybe at lunch, maybe when I get home. I am afraid of losing my job for being here so much...<P>Later, dear friend...<P>BTW, would be happy to talk, email, etc... let me know...<P>------------------<BR>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited September 27, 1999).]

Hi Maya,<BR> I always read your threads and think you are a very intelligent and sensitive person. I was wondering after reading your post if you are unhappy with yourself? Is there something you can do just for yourself and to make yourself happy? I've read Divorce Busting and there is one chapter about how to make yourself happy (the questions to ask yourself etc).The author claims that if you work to make yourself happy the marriage will oftentimes improve.It was interesting and made alot of sense to me.....just a thought and probably way off base!!! Lu<BR>

Maya-<BR>Perhaps you are still doing some soul-searching. I think, in a sense, when marriages go through this, both spouses do a LOT of soul-searching. May not have anything to do with your H or W, just your own personal journey. I know in my case, I did a lot, questioned alot of my own choices, desires, goals, etc. What's really going to make ME happy.<P>I have now developed a sort of "habit" wherein when I'm feeling "trapped" by all of my life demands, I take off overnight to get away by myself. I check into a hotel and just spend some time with ME. Helps me to regroup and put things into perspective.<P>Sometimes our soul cries out for something different...doesn't have to be a major overhaul, maybe just some tweeks! <P>I understand where you are and wish you luck on your journey.<P>Good Luck and God Bless.<P>"The flower sheds all its petals and finds its fruits." Author unknown

Yes, I'm probably unhappy with myself. I can't put my finger on it, but I'm very upset with myself for my actions last summer. I cannot believe that I, the intelligent Maya, FELL for the line of crap he gave me. How could I have been soooo stupid?<P>No, I guess I haven't forgiven MYSELF for this stupid act.<P>You'd think, though, that the fact that H wants me ANYWAY ... that's I'd be working my BUTT off to make the marriage work. Why don't I care??????????<P>I care about my girls. Probably what keeps me sane, knowing that I didn't wreck their world by leaving their dad. So I will stay. Yes, for them.<P>I care very much about my H, and am so very sorry for hurting him like I did. I still apologize for it. But he's over it. He just wants to move forward with me. He's crazy about me. There are women that would give body parts to have a H feel like this about them. <P>SO WHAT'S WRONG WITH ME?

Hi Maya, <BR> I think you have it in a nutshell , you can not give to another or let your H love you till you love yourself....I was shocked when I realized my H's self esteem was flattened probably more than mine. He could not believe he had the affair and says he just feels bad about himself. He quit going to the gym and started eating like crazy...(it's like he wasn't worthy of feeling good.) Maybe you need to forgive yourself and do something to please yourself independent of your H, do something to build that self esteem up...... Lu

Hi, Maya,<P>Pardon me for jumping in here too - but I really feel for what you are going through & I think I've been there. It was a very (very) long time after my affair before those feelings of marital "ennui" passed - honestly, I didn't ever think they would... this is no easy road you're on, Maya (duh! I think you had an inkling by now! ) - from my own experience, I can offer 2 bits of advice that helped me work my way through it: <P>1. "what LoneStar said". I think he hit the nail right on the head when he said it's something in *you* that is making you feel unhappy & restless. A little story: Dunc & I had "couple" friends that we were very close to even before we got married; the wife was a real dynamo, very bright, always moving on to ever-more exciting new jobs, & we both admired the heck out of her. She always did everything to the *max* (whereas I tend a little toward the, um, lazy side...*yawn*). She mothered to the max. She kept her family hopping, moving to new (or old!) houses in new neighborhoods. She'd redecorate. Nothing ever *quite* made her happy for long ...so she'd try something else! (meanwhile our eyebrows began going up, & it became apparent to us that she was looking outside herself for something missing or unhappy inside... that's why nothing "worked"). ANYWAY, she finally decided her HUSBAND must be the problem, & broke up the marriage (we suspected an OM in the wings...). Long story short, she's *still* unhappy...wanted her ex-H *back* (who by this time wanted no part of it)... there's my little story, for what it's worth.<P>OK, here's another little story! (I'm full of 'em). I was unhappy / *discontent* / restless for YEARS - just couldn't see any way out of it, couldn't see a good marriage coming out of this mess at all...bleah, bleak. I was trying to keep plugging, but just felt like we were spinning our wheels & getting nowhere (& never would). Well, eventually our counselor put me on anti-deps - which I fought tooth & nail, "what, ME depressed? No way!" - guess what?? That profound discontent, that restlessness, that hopelessness about ever "getting there" - it dissipated. Maya, I don't remember your status re antideps, but if you're not on 'em - I'd sure like to see you give it a try. Remember, *they don't do a thing* if you don't need them - but if you notice a change over a few weeks, then you needed them!<P>2. You mentioned that you & your H "never had that kind of relationship". Well, what DID you have? Why did you get together? Are these things still important to you (*be honest*! )? I'm sure by this point you've done a lot of mental evaluation of your relationship.<P>If you're trying to turn an apple into an orange, it probably won't work... but if you're trying to turn it into a *Really Fine Apple*, the sky's the limit. When I considered my relationship with Dunc, as badly estranged as we had gotten to be (I mean, we almost hated each other a lot of the time... punctuated by icy indifference... it was lots of fun), I still knew I had loved him to death when we met (& he, me ), and for a lot of reasons that were *still* very important to me (which I thought maybe we had "lost" though) - I wanted to find THAT relationship again & make it even better, and that is what we've finally been able to do. <P>So, I didn't so much feel I had married the *wrong* person for the wrong reasons, as I felt that that person had disappeared, maybe never to return... but he was still in there somewhere, & so was I.<P>Anyway, food for thought, chomp chomp. If it makes you feel any better, I don't think what you're going through is totally unusual, or neccessarily bodes ill for your future happiness... sometimes you just have to hang in there & keep at it. Maya, are you talking to anyone? Pastor? Counselor? Our counseling has been SO helpful - I don't think we would have made it without. And think about the depression thing (PLEASE!) - feeling so miserable just isn't normal, and may be little more than a biochemical problem - which you are attributing to a tepid marriage - Maya, ya gotta do *everything possible* to give this a fair shake! You know that!<P>I really feel for you, Maya. I remember these feelings. Hang in there, toots - we're all here if ya need us...<P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<BR>

Yeah, I've always had very low self-esteem, but can hide it VERY well. I SEEM to be so in control of everything, and that's what I want people to think, but inside I'm the most beatdown person you can imagine.<P>What can I do to build that up? I'm slamming Suzy Q's right now ... washing them down with Pepsi One (you know, just one calorie!)<P>

Hi Suse ... we posted at the same time!<P>I'm on Celexa -- 40 mgs. At first I thought they were helping me ... but now I don't know. I can't understand the highs and lows. Are the highs just me foolin' myself?<P>I just don't care about much of anything anymore ... I used to be like the friend you described ... always doing something, brainstorming something .... but now I don't even WANT to do that, because I know I can't find happiness there either.<P>I used to LOVE decorating my house, took pride in how it looked ... and I don't seem to care anymore. I'm sick of the never-ending battle of laundry, dusting, cleaning bathrooms .... you get it done and the next day it's dirty again. What's the stinkin' point? It used to be the satisfaction of having it clean and organized ... and now that's not even a goal of mine anymore.<P>And it's not just about cleaning house without anyone being grateful that they have a clean toilet to sit their butt on ... I don't have the desire to go out with friends, no desire to have close friendships ... I just don't wanna do much of anything anymore. Yeah, I know that's classic signs of depression .... yup, I'm depressed. I'm the Depression Poster Girl.<P>What did I fall in love with about H? Can't tell you ... he was a good kisser ... made alot of money(at the time) ... and was "security." Good grief, I was already 20 and had NO marriage prospects. I could have ended up an old maid if I wasn't careful.<P>I don't have a clue what love is. I'm relationship challenged, that's for sure. I feel bad that my H has been saddled with this for the rest of HIS life ... he deserves so much more.<p>[This message has been edited by Maya (edited September 27, 1999).]

D'OH!!!<P>I missed the biggest thing of all - luckily you & Lu caught it. See how quickly I blocked out something so painful?????<P>It's the "I'm pond scum" factor. This got in the way of our recovery SO badly. Somebody like DG99 is a big ol' fat help, isn't he? Maya, it took me years to work this out - mostly because I had no clue what was happening, & neither did my counselor. Finally one night in bed I was reading "Atlantic Monthly" & there was an article about "Shame" - & as I read it, I burst into tears (& I'm not much of a crier) - I just *knew* this was 'the missing link'. Didn't solve the whole problem like magic, but gave me a place to start working.<P>Maya: counseling. anti-deps. counseling. anti-deps.

I don't want to go to counseling. I'd rather be in a drugged up stupor than have to sit for an hour and TELL THIS STINKIN' STORY AGAIN.<P>I cannot formulate into words what I'm REALLY feeling. And I don't trust anyone anyway. And I am usually reduced to a blubbering mass of tears anytime I talk about it. I can't even post to YOU ALL without crying here at the stinkin' computer. So unprofessional in a group of engineers.<P>Shame. Oh yeah baby. I've cornered the market on shame/guilt/remorse. I cannot escape my mind ... imagines, words, memories .... all flood in and I'm ashamed all over again. I can't run from it, can't hide from it .... it's always there ... always a part of me.<P>For the rest of my life I will have been an adulterer. For the rest of my life, those that know me will remember that I broke my marriage vows ....<BR>

Hi Maya,<BR> You have got to FORGIVE yourself...what if the roles were reversed with H, would you forgive him? You know, I feel like my H is in the same place as you ...he was so bewildered when I told him how his affair affected my self esteem and he said , "why,? you didn't do anything wrong, everyone thinks you are the "good one"......I think he is suffering more than me. Be gentle with yourself Maya.....Lu

yoo-hoo, me again. Maya, you *definitely* sound depressed. I had all the "I don't care"s and "I don't want to see friends" stuff too. I've read that any given anti-dep will work on roughly 2/3 of those who try it. Apparently you're in the other 1/3! Unless you've just started. Talk to your doc, Maya. <P>This depression is a huge roadblock to everything you want out of your life. Maya, I've been depressed so many times I know whereof I speak! It *nearly* ruined my life! (& guess what - I finally figured out that depression was major factor in my affair - I realized my "relapses" w/ OM were coinciding... BIG revelation for me, and one that made it a lot easier to understand what was happening in my life & stop feeling so weak & POWERLESS & crazy....). Maya, getting my depression under control once & for all was truly the turning point of my life. Don't mess around with this. I wasted way too many years that way & it darn near cost me my marriage. A *wonderful* marriage. I'm going to hound you, girl! <p>[This message has been edited by suse (edited September 27, 1999).]

Maya,<P>I understand.<P>Let me know if you want to talk, email...

Maya:<P>Maybe we can actually learn something from D99. You said...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I don't want to go to counseling. I'd rather be in a drugged up stupor than have to sit for an hour and TELL THIS STINKIN' STORY AGAIN.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Remember when he said no counselor on earth could possibly understand his story or help him? I think that’s when we pretty much saw he preferred wallowing in his own self-pity to working on his marriage. Don’t make the same mistake.<P>I can’t tell you how much counseling has helped me and my W. We have a better marriage than before. And as we continue, it just gets better. Our counselor said it could happen, but I wasn’t prepared for the reality. It’s great. She also told us the marriage we had before was gone forever. It was up to us to make it better, worse, or end it, but what we had previously was gone. I certainly wouldn’t want to go back to what was... no conversation, no affection, no time together. Strangers in the same house.<P>Would you?<BR>

Well, crap, Suse. I just got a 90-day supply of this stuff ... and I just HATE waste. <P>And I dread going back to the dumb doctor and telling him, "Hey, I'm not over this yet, can you put me on something with a little more kick?"<P>My sex drive is already in the danger zone and I'm guessing it's from the depression and the drugs. (combo of both?) Poor H.<P><BR>