There is a book "Why Women Who Divorce Do So Well" By Abigail ?(cant recall last name). Its a great read, sure helped me.

Can you give us some more information? What's the premise of the book.

Sounds like something I may be interested in reading...

I'm curious, is it as "anti men" and "anti marriage" as it seems to be from the reviews on Amazon, or is it more of a "how to get back on your feet after divorce" kind of thing? I hope it's more of the latter, what's your take on it, ruby?

Here are some snippets from Amazon:


I really like the last "but" phrase above, BTW, looks like the reviewers had some doubts about the message...

Anyway, not trying to pick a fight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, just curious if this is a bit too "anti marriage" for us Marriage Builders <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

I'm with you, AGG. Ashton Applewhite is a writer and editor whose book topics are all over the board. She has no specific expertise in this area, but has written several pro-divorce books.

Here's a link to a report of a study (by people who do have expertise) refuting Applewhite's assertions http://www.smartmarriages.com/does.divorce.html

BTW, there is no such thing as an unhappy marriage. There are only unhappy married people. Divorce can never fix someone who is unhappy.

My recommendation to all is to stay out of the "self help" section of the book store. Those authors write books to make money off your suffering and all to often don't have any real training in the subjects in which they posture as expert.

"Divorce can never fix someone who is unhappy."

I beg to differ. Separation and soon divorce has fixed my unhappiness. Perhaps it wasn't the act. Perhaps it was only removing myself from my husband's company that made me happy. However, I couldn't stay married to someone and never see him.

I know this is a pro-marriage site. However, I think it is important that not all marriages can or should be saved. Sometimes, divorcing yourself from someone who is causing you distress or even harm is a very good thing that leads to happiness.

My mother did tell me that she thought women, in general, handle divorce and life after divorce better than men. She thought the reason why was that in general, women have better support systems and friends to talk with. She, of course, is not an expert.

Come on, GG, you know that divorce did not make you happy. Getting away from all the struggle and strife made you happier than you were at the end of your marriage. You were relieved to be away from all that. But that does mean that you are really happier now than you were when your marriage was still good? Be honest.

I will concede that some spouses are so toxic that it is not possible to be happy while being married to them. These are the handful of marriages that really have no chance of being saved. Do you have any idea how many unhappy people get married believing that the marriage itself will make them happy? They always fail. Marriage cannot make you happy; it can only enhance the happiness you already have. The reverse is also true; divorce cannot make you happy. You can only make yourself happy. If everyone accepted this axiom, the divorce rate in this country to drop like a stone.

BTW, my statement is a paraphrase of one of Dr. Phil McGraw's principles.

[quoteI think it is important that not all marriages can or should be saved. Sometimes, divorcing yourself from someone who is causing you distress or even harm is a very good thing that leads to happiness. [/quote]

Agreed; even Harleys say that. My question to ruby was whether this book is in the camp of "women don't need marriage" rather than "some marriages should not be saved". That's what the review of the book implies, that the author views marriage as an inherently bad deal for women, and therefore most women would be happier single than married.

AGG

Well, Applewhite does have a point. Some women and men will never be happy in a marriage. They are too wrapped up in themselves ever to give to another the way one must in a marriage. But that's not a women's issue. Applegate make an argument that marriage is always bad for a woman.

Every married person will, at some point in their marriage, become unhappy because the marriage is not working as well as it should. This doesn't constitute a bad marriage, but a normal marriage. We don't live in a story book. People used to understand this or at least have older and wiser people to mentor them and support their marriages. This doesn't happen anymore. Now a marriage gets in trouble and there are thousands of Ashton Applegates out there to tell us that we'd be better off forsaking our vows and go looking for a greener pasture. The problem is there really aren't any greener pastures. Marriage is what it is and only the participants can make it bad. What the study I posted shows that when when one of the participants is making it bad and making his/her partner miserable, they won't do it forever and hanging in there has just as good a chance for future happiness five years out as going for the divorce. Our grandparents could have told us this.

Is it me, or is there a certain irony that women, who tend to be the ones who push for commitment, are in the majority when it comes to divorcing from that commitment?

No, TBG. There have been studies looking at this. My thinking is that women commit much too quickly and could take a valuable lesson from men: slow down. They generally start thinking about a committed relationship in just a few dates and definitely after sex. Remeber the lyrics from Meatloaf's "Paradise by the Dashboard Light"? "Uh, let me sleep on it and I'll give you my answer in the morning." And what was in insistent reply? ....

I guess I wasnt even thinking about whether Applegate was pro marriage. She followed 5 or so women who were going through divorce. Each had their own unique situations. Verbal/Physical/emotional abuse, One had put her career on hold to marry and start a family ect ect. They all fought for the marriages, but when the divorce finally happened each of these women found themselves again. Thats what I thought was so great about the book. Twas healing for me. And several of my Girlfriends who also went through Divorce. Those days of wonderng "how will I manage" What will happen to me" all the fleeting thoughts that go through us all in a D.

Ruby, I like your description of the book and may check it out. I had another friend recommend it several years ago when I didn't believe I'd ever feel better after divorce.

I was happy in my M, even when everything wasn't going well and, looking back, I now realize my H was already well into his A as well as drug and alcohol use after some (?) years clean and sober. But at the time, I thought I had everything I could possibly want - my H and I owned and operated a business together, we had a beautiful home, and an intact family. I was devastated when, after 4 months of extreme verbal abuse, he suddenly moved in with MOW. I fought for the M for the next 1.5 years.

Now after 3+ years of NC, but still not divorced, I'm doing so much better! The difference between now and when I was happy in my M is that my current happiness isn't based on lies. I know now that my H had been flaunting his relationships with a series of married women employees in front of our other employees for years. I was living in denial, not real happiness. Now, I'm running our business alone - something I never would've believed I could do - and the happiness I've created for myself is real.

I heard a rumor today that my STBXH is sober and doing great. Funny, my lawyer spoke to his lawyer on Monday and she's worried about him and arguing for spousal support because he can't work and no one would hire him... I remember living with the various versions of his life, never knowing which, if any, was true, and generally believing the most comfortable version. I filed for divorce over 4 years ago and it still seems far off. I'm sending him a court ordered check every two weeks and paying his health insurance. Neither he nor MOW has worked in 5+ years. I believe in M and the principles of this site, but it takes two and my H blamed me for all our problems.

I am sure my ex wife would agree with this book's claims.

She used that reasoning to justify her affair with a OM who was also married. So she was both the WS and the OW all at once. That kind of thinking requires a lot of justification

Following five women is not even a drop in the bucket. Studying 200 randomly selected women and observing their outcomes based on a strict and consistent set of evaluative criteria would get my attention. And look at the issues these women had. This is what is known in philosophy as an a priori conclusion. In other words, she hand selected her subjects, knowing what there outcomes would be before she started. This is, if nothing else, bad journalism.

Here's a better one, more balanced in some ways, but still seems to lean towards the idea that marriage somehow stifles women, IMHO.

The Breaking Point by Sue Shellenbarger.

I think one of the things about some of these books is that they often encourage or at least advocate that women exploit men sexually. The "younger man" is a good example of this.

They seem rather indifferent to the idea that they might be hurting a man emotionally.

One of the big problems I see is that a prevailing attitude is that if you are unhappy, there are only two options;
1 - Stay married and be unhappy
2 - Get a divorce and get on with your life

This is pointed out in the article at smartmarriages.com, which is linked above.
"Call it the "divorce assumption." Most people assume that a person stuck in a bad marriage has two choices: stay married and miserable or get a divorce and become happier."

Why is there never #3?
Stay in the marriage and do everything in your power to make it better.

And that includes letting your spouse know you are unhappy and they are willing to do something to make it better.
As we have seen here at MB time & time again, a spouse who has an affair, many times does not come right out and tell the bs that they are having problems with the marriage until they are already in teh the throes of another relationship.

Check, you wrote "Come on, GG, you know that divorce did not make you happy. Getting away from all the struggle and strife made you happier than you were at the end of your marriage. You were relieved to be away from all that. But that does mean that you are really happier now than you were when your marriage was still good? Be honest.

My marriage was good for 10 weeks before it started feeling off. I know when it happened. I can pin-point each moment when the spiral turned downward again. Not all of it was B's fault. I did my fair share of contribution in the beginning.

Chris, you are right on the money. My point earlier is that for many of us, no matter what we did, the relationship keep causing us harmful distress. I told B many times that I was deeply unhappy. I told him that his instincts causing him to be jealous were well founded and that I was vulnerable and found other men attractive. When B discovered I was on the brink of an EA, he was shocked. He hadn't realized I meant those things. He thought I was dramatizing myself.

Nope, for me, separation and impending divorce is WONDERFUL. I've never been more confident, more content, more relaxed than now. A lot of that improvement came from the growth of trying to save my marriage. But, the growth alone wouldn't not have been enough to make me happy. It was only when the growth gave me the stregnth to say "I'm done" that I felt happy.

I'm sure plenty of divorces do not make anyone happy. However, I think for most of us who have run the gamut of these boards over the years, being free of our ex's is wonderful.

You stated the take home message of that article very succinctly, Chris. Binary thinking doesn't usually find the best solution to a problem.

I hear you GG. I can imagine that being free of a toxic spouse is wonderful. Sounds like you married the wrong person and pretty much figured this out almost from the start. Is it wonderful for me to be free of my spouse? Oh lord no. Am I happy? Yes. Did my divorce make me happy? No, I did that myself. I think it's more of a matter of what the marriage was like and which party you are. The filing spouse is always more relieved than the one who has to stay behind and pick up the pieces of a broken life after an unwanted divorce. You seem to understand that it wasn't just cutting and running from a bad marriage that hade you stronger, but the struggle to make it good. It makes no difference that you failed; you grew stronger and healthier. This is what made you happy, not the divorce.