Right, the divorce itself is not the source of happiness in most cases. I think there are some exceptions for people in abusive marriages where their spouse will not try to change. Then, like removing a cancerous tumor, removing the marital relationship is the only alternative.

When I first found out about my wife's affair, I went to talk to a retired priest. He told me that if I could survive this I would be much stronger regardless of the result on the marraige. He was right. My marriage is history, but I am stronger and more confident. I value myself more, I value my friends more.

Most importantly, I have fully embraced my masculinity. I enjoy being a man. I enjoy my emotions. I enjoy my body and keeping it in good shape. I enjoy my relationships with other guys, my relationships with female friends, and now that I have started dating, my romantic relationships with women I find attractive.

Most interesting is that I now no longer concentrate on pleasing other people (usually that meant my former wife) first. Instead, I first concentrate on pleaseing myself. On being a man, and enjoying my masculinity. A great side benefit is that the women seem to enjoy being with the new me much more than the old 'please everybody else first' guy.

Chris, growing stronger did not make me happy. By the end of my marriage, I was strong and very unhappy. It wasn't until I separted the I stopped being unhappy and that didn't happyen overnight.

I like the tumor analogy. An operation doesn't make you live, it simply enables you to live. The act of divorce will not make you happy, but it can enable you to be happy, and like an opperation, you have to be at your wits end with pain before you'll even consider the pain of divorce as a viable alternative.

I also agree that it's very hard on those spouses who were left. Doubly so if they were happy in the marriage, and therefore thought the marriage was good.

Chris, growing stronger did not make me happy. By the end of my marriage, I was strong and very unhappy.
And I didn't say you would be happy.
Think of how you would have felt had you been weak and unhappy...
Which would have been better?

Sometimes, doing the right or the best thing is not always the easiest in the short term, but will enable you to do better in the long term.
Pulling a splinter out may hurt more right now than leaving it in but you will avoid infection later on.

Personally,

I believe we choose to be happy or not. Being married won't make an unhappy person happy. Why would getting divorced do that as well.

We each are responsible for our own happiness. We are responsible to find things everyday that make us happy. But we have to be able to do this ourself.

We can blame another person, saying they contributed to our unhappiness, but the reality is, we did not find a way to make ourselves happy while with that person.

Now, it no way am I saying that any person should stay in an abusive relationship. I'm all for a person seeking sanctuary for abuse. But being abused or not being abused doesn't make one happy or unhappy. It can help or hinder ones search for happiness, but these things cannot MAKE you anything.

You have to do that for yourself.

T

Ruby, I see from your description how reading this book could be a healing experience.

I think there's a lot going on these days for both women and men in figuring out wanting marriage versus needing it. Your description sounds to me like a piece of the healing journey of understanding how much of our lives center around things we think we need and therefore MUST pursue at all costs, when in reality they're wants, not needs.

Anyway, being single, a woman, and an engineer, I regularly run into single male engineers who would rather not be single. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But one thing I've learned to look for is whether a man has an understanding of what marriage would mean when the wife is not in some way physically dependent on the husband. A really surprising number (surprising to me -- we're talking about highly intelligent people here) don't get it, but actually think that making a solid dependable living combined with avoiding really overt forms of abuse is enough to make a good husband. More is ideal, but not *really* necessary. That model only makes sense for the physical dependency scenario -- it makes none at all when that is not present, but reduces the H to a zero-sum contributor. It makes me sad to see some men rate themselves so low.

It's a leap many aren't willing to make to realize that with someone like me, the *only* value they can bring to a marriage is social, not material. If they're not looking like an extremely good long-term partner in the social aspects of a marriage, they have zero value to me as a potential marriage partner, no matter how good a "provider" they might be. It's funny how often this comes up in "why don't you give this guy more of a chance" conversations -- I point out some aspect of social skills where the guy is too far lacking to be of interest to me, and people come back with "but he's a good guy and makes a good living", or the guy may say that about himself.

Mineownself, you have really hit the nail on the head. Today's modern woman does not need a man for the stuff one needs in life. Rather she wants a partner who can meet her emotional needs. She can provide her own house, car, trip to Paris, etc.

It is a sad commentary on the modern male that they don't understand what they have to offer women. Their masculinity has been reduced to their paycheck and the absence of any truly nasty traits. Why is this? Many men have forgotten, or don't know how to be men. They spend to much time trying to please others and they all to often let women define their masculinity. With all due respect to you women, you can't teach us how to be men. While both sexes share the good qualities of being human, we show them in different ways. As a man, if I try and show qualities like empathy, passion, sorrow, fear, love, and compassion like a woman does, I come across as less than what I am.

Thank God I finally learned that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />