Don't waste your time talking to the OW. They don't understand family logic. Loyalty and morals are NOT in their grasp.

BTW, they R having sex. They just won't admit it.

Detach yourself from the WS right now. It is damaging your healing. Know that they are having sex no matter what he says and that part of his dirty secret will lose it's power. You will soon be able to bring it up and disarm the A even though it still triggers horrible pictures in your mind. When you are able to do so, it will empower your personal healing.

What a crazy way to heal eh? Necessary for some of us though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

L.

Here's another thought...... next time the WS speaks to you, let him know the OW was 'bragging about their R and sexlife.' NO details just tell him you were wondering why she would make up stuff IF what he was saying to you was true.' Something like that. Put the doubt between them and let it rip. LOL!!!

L.

Good point. If you restate what the OW says like that, then the spin is placed back on her.

Think like the OW. She sabotaged your M. Now sabotage her affair with your H.

How to do it?

1)don't be glue that binds them together!

2)Don't discuss life or money or any issues with her...unless she calls and complains to you..and then I'd tape her phone calls so that the WS can listen and it's evidence.

3)refuse to allow OP to be around or deal in any child rearing issues. Cut them out. Make it clear you ONLY deal with the WS in regards to parenting. the OP IS NOT a parent ok?

4)sit back, always repeat only what the OP says as truth, and do not get involved and let the sparks fly!

I have sat back for 2 years watching from afar...For the first year of my xh's marriage to FV, I did just that. Then suddenly, I didn't care much anymore. Had I cared, it would be different.

Now due to my lack of involvment, here's what's gone down: My xh is still a very WS..now to her...I took myself out of their equation as one thing they had in common w/each other was standing together AGIANST ME! My oh my! When they can't stand and gang up on you, it's called CHANGING THE DYNAMICS. And whenever the OW/W would fly off handle, I'd tell the XH. I would call and simply repeat what I heard, and say to not have that happen again.

When she'd try to get involved in my sons' life, I would calmly tell her that my child is my child and I am the responsible parent. Tht parenting issues were between my xh and I. Not her.

Hon, if the OP wants YOUR H so bad...let her have him...WS MENTALITY AND FLAWS TOO! Harley is right when he says it is usually doomed within 2 years. My xh's and his present W's relationship is now 2.5 years into coming outta the affair closet ok? And it's blown sky high.

And it's sad. If my xh had had more redeemable qualities, there could have been a window time for us to reconcile...ex: he asked me out today. I declined. Asked me to hang out with him, my son, his buddy, and my best girlfriend at the boat dock to grill out and ride the boats and jet skiis. But alas, I am not an Op and he is still a WS. Despite being the father of my son, he's a huge, big time, unrepentant WS.

But know that if you can do this fast, and learn this fast, you can sabotage them from afar. Yes, you as the W still hold power. Learn how to wield it. For deep down, despite all the protestations of love for the OP, the WS regards you with the role of their life partner and their wife or H. You still hold that title if you remind them now and again that it is still indeed yours. From time to time, don that tiara, and rule with wise words from afar. Let them bust...love bust all over the place. Don't be any support to him. Let him fall apart on his own.

Don't lend power or give powers to the OP. Diminish them through the lack of their own character. You tell your WS you don't deal with an OP. You only deal with him or he (your spouse) and that is for parenting, finances, or anytihng important. That the OP is not part of YOUR new life and that's simple.

And by all means, if the OP is cruel, evil, or stupid calling you up, get a recorder and tape their words. You can make their "angelic" character break apart before your WS's very eyes if you are wise. I mean, this time last year, my xh's OW/W flew into a rage after my son's birthday party...swearing, yelling, steaming at me and accusing me of "trying to steal my husband" back. Why? Because I looked good at the party, did NOT engage her, did stand and keep my distance from her and her family, and brought a male friend (attractive) with me as support as well as my best girl friend here. It was obviously enough to drive my xh into a tizzy. How dare his xw of only a few months have a man in her presence? How dare she bring somebody smart or attractive around him? But little did my xh know that day was only about my son. I brought my friends so I wouldn't have to stand alone at the party for my boy to be a support group for my son and I as FV used his party to bring her entire family and friends to my son's birthday party. I just wanted to be strong for my son and she once again, LB'd big time and showed her [censored].

Be smart. Stick to these principles. If you do, it will FOR SURE 100 PERCENT COME UNGLUED.

I call this the reverse 180. Peachy's reverse 180 for the severely Waywards.

Please don't call the OW. That would be a waste of your time. She cares nothing for you or your family.

She is probably not giving him space either - OW just like to say stuff like that. My WH's OW kept telling him to "follow his heart". How freakin sweet.

Remember...the OP is an angel to the WS. They say and do all that a WS wants to hear...and see.

They cannot have tarnished halos...
OR DO THEY???? HA HA HA HA HA.

Learn how to tarnish a halo from afar.

Don't call her. Let her call YOU and let her take negative actions.

Do the reverse 180 for the Severely Wayward.

If you do so, either way you win. Either the affair ends and you two reconcile...or their affair ends even if they end up supposedly together...and you don't have to deal with either a WS or an OP again.

Well, maybe the Ws sometimes.

But again, it's a good thing.

Don't contact her. But do get her in a corner and expose the OW for the non-angelic demon she really is.

Buy a tape recorder for home phone and one for the cells too.

Then stand back and watch sparks fly. Oh and I forgot...this one's good. Work on yourself. Nothing makes an OP come unglued than seeing an attractive, intelligent, calm, cool, and collected BS...the spouse of the WS...it gets their goat. It freaks them out.

Put proper barriers in place. Work on your, do the reverse 180 and let the Love Busting Begin in Affairsville!

I did say she was at work bragging that they were living together and that he was still married- he said yeah- I am living there.
you guys are all right- I know they are having sex and I have to get past this hole. she dosent call here she calls his cell. I cant find the xh- all he tells me why winter do you want to make him hurt like you hurt. I said yeah! Then he says see I cant talk to you because you start off nice and then you get mad. huuuuuunh?
I am starting to see that my marriage was not what i thought it was or had hoped for years.
I find my self sitting on my porch- and want to crawl into a hole. My kids keep trying to cheer me up and I smile joke and kid and then I dont want to be here at all.
I told him Ive been thinking about moving out of state- start over somewhere - and he tells me to stop running from life and face it. what a joke!

winter - I promise you it does get much better. After D-day, I was a complete mess. I walked around like a zombie for months. The best thing you can do is force yourself to get busy making changes, and doing things to raise your self esteem.

Then soon you will start feeling better about yourself, and much stronger.

Hey, peachy, I like your style!

Sometimes I think that I went thru this crud to give a bit of insight into the minds of the very very waywards...like my xh. And if anything worked with him, it would surely work with some of the lesser waywards out there.

Trick for winter is to become Icy...like winter. Stand back, and watch sparks fly...or icicles..

Meanwhile, she does sorta a 180 in her own life. No contact, R talk, etc. Works on herself. And extricates herself from the cyclone at the Affair House. Lets OW become less angel and more devil. Is only peaceable and normal when WH calls or comes by. He sees attractive, peacable woman in his BS. He sees peace. And sooner or later, he will want to flip the other way...and that will happen if she makes THEM love bust on each other.

It is destined to happen.

Just as couples in normal marriages and relationships love bust unintentionally.

BUT WE CAN HELP THE AFFAIREES LOVE BUST IF WE WANT TO...and yes, it's devious. It is sneaky. But it can work.

You have to create a real rift between them. But it cannot seem that it comes from the BS. Carefully done.

Simple theory basically.

Imho...affairs begin b/c a WS is unhappy WITH THEMSELVES...THEY DO NOT EXPEND ANY ENERGY FIXING WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEIR LIVES TO BEGIN WITH.

And this is THE PEACH THEORY OF CHAOS.

The potential WS is dissatisfied with their life. Or job. Or friends. Or lack of excitement and living a day to day routine with little variance quite possibly. Rather than search INWARD and ADMIT THEY HAVE SHORTCOMINGS, the potential wayward does something unique! They blame the person closes to them---THE POTENTIAL BS for their shortcomings. Thus, if the BS is the source of the problems, then all that's needed is to get a new partner! Voila! They SEEK OUT SOMEBODY THAT FIXES THE DEFICIENCY IN THEIR OWN LIFE. Not feeling young? Find a 21 year old college student. Not feeling racy? Find a chickie who loves pornos. Get it?

That's my opinion on how an affair begins.

So let's expand on my theory.

IF this is how it begins, then it's obvious that the affair will end. AND WHY???BECAUSE THE WS DOES NOT FIX THEMSELVES AND THEY WILL FIND FLAWS in the affair.

They will place all blame on the BS...but when the marriage is crumbling and the affair partner wants committment and pushes the WS into same type of living arrangement (either shacking up or affair marriage), it will fall right back into chaos.

And quite possibly...very likely...the BS will begin to look more sane if they keep themselves out of the increasing and ever swirling chaos that has been created by the WS and the OP.

So how can we using the Peach Chaos Theory help undermine affair relationships? By appearing the opposite of what the OP is trying to do. If the OP appears to be all angelic or caring, unveil the OP for the monster they are...that means staying outta their lives. Let the WS see that they have morning breath, they nag, and complain, and don't fold their clothes exactly as wanted. That they have FLAWS AND FAULTS...soon the WS will see that this isn't paradise. It's reality. And when the OP does something dastardly to the BS, the BS calmly presents evidence to the WS that the OP is psycho...and maybe meanspirited too...and then immediately backs right outta their lives. And whenever the WS sees the BS, you show them calm, serenity, and peace. Let the 2 illicit lovers argue amongst themselves.

Make the WS think that YOU were what they needed to complete them all along.

But in the end, even if the WS comes back, you gotta know this one...CHANGE IN THE WS MUST HAPPEN FOR ANY MARRIAGE TO BE RECOVERED FROM ADULTERY. REAL AND MEANINGFUL CHANGE. All that's needed is to get the WS back from the brink and begin life support on the wayward to get them back into life as we know it. That means counceling, mental health help, and maybe meds...or all the above~

You see, the problem begins with the WS. Sure, we the BS aren't perfect. But if we use time away to work on ourselves, and the TRUE complaints a WS has about us, then basically we make their affair arguement invalid.

But here's the kicker. I WOULD GIVE THE REVERSE 180 A LIFESPAN. A SHELF LIFE. I'D SAY IT'S 3 YEARS OR LESS FROM D DAY TO WORK THE MAGIC.

There are unfortunately some who can't come back from the brink.

I know many who have. My brother in law. Excellent recovery.

It was treated as symptoms and then troubleshooted...and now all's right with that family.

But it was b/c the WS realized THEY had the problem to begin with.

Sounds good to me.

thanks just peachy- you are right on the money. Did your spouse come back and how long was it?

Thanks to everyone- it was such a bad day for me but you guys helped. I may actually be able to sleep thru the night tonight for the first time.
tomorrow is a new day and I will take it in hours, minutes as steps toward getting my joy and spirit back.

Winter:

We are trying to help you understand that your WH is ADDICTED to the OW. The FOG of the A is REAL. It was hard for me to understand this, too. I painfully remember when I was in your very same position, agonizing over my H being with someone else.

The key for you is to try to focus on YOUR PLAN. Try to stop focusing on THEM and what they are DOING. I know that is hard because it is exactly what I did. However, the more I learned and practiced refocusing my attention from THEM to ME, the better I got. Also, this improved my chances for RECOVERY. THEY are LOST, THEY are TEMPORARILY INSANE, THEY are DRUG-CRAZED and DRUG ADDICTED.

You, on the other hand, can rise to a HIGHER LEVEL. Work on being the best person that YOU can be. Prepare yourself for being able to help HIM when and if he is able to withdraw himself from her. Try not to SINK DOWN to their level but to RISE UP. Do you see what I am saying? Maintain your SELF-RESPECT...

You have not LOST anything. She does not HAVE him really...Why is he coming over to your house then? I came to the point of deciding that I really WANTED my H....all of him... I did not want to share him with anyone. I would rather be alone than having to share him...MAKE THIS YOUR MISSION!

Right now, the OW will use any contacts that you have with her as ammunition to prolong the A. So will he. They will then have you as a topic for discussion. You do not want to give them that option. All your WH needs to think about now is how you are changing.... You will be so focused on YOUR OWN PLAN that you will not have time to worry about what they are doing... They will not be doing anything worthwhile.

The thing is, your worrying about and thinking about what they are doing will not benefit you in any way. It will not get them to change. It will not bring an end to the A...

Your only option is to FOCUS ON YOURSELF and your OWN CHANGES. I literally had to shake these thoughts off..I would get up and do something constructive... I had the cleanest house in town. Just think how surprised your WH will be to see this....

PLAN A..PLAN A... PLAN A.....

you right- see my new post - sent an email to her when I was up all night. I have filled my perscription for celexa and am feeling a little better, but I wonder with what I sent did I damage any chance.