Why do FWS think that they can say “Don’t worry” and that should be enough for us to start to trust them? My wife recently told me to not worry when I thought I saw the OM drive by.

Don’t worry. Don’t worry. It makes me sick anytime I hear that. I wasn’t worried when you were out having the affair because my wife would never do that. I wasn’t worried 3 weeks after D-day and NC and you were still calling him on your cell phone. How about this one FWS – you need to worry.

How long do I have to be concerned about whether she’ll betray me again? How long till I can start to trust her again? How long till I can feel like were on track and I never have to be worried about you going out with your friends to the bar?

I’m 33 and we have no kids. Been married for almost 9 yrs and my soul was ripped from my chest and my lifeless body was left there to recover on its own. I feel I have two choices – I can work on the marriage or divorce her.

If I work on the marriage then it may take a few years till we can patch the marriage up and feel like we can say that we have recovered. I trusted her once and she betrayed me. Then I trusted her again after NC only to discover that she was still talking to him and she admitted to saying “I love you” and that she was trying to get together with him.

So FWS, if we seem a little untrusting and concerned guess what – you turned us into this person. Hope you like what you created. You’re Frankenstein and I’m the monster. Difference is rather than giving us life you took it away, along with our original hopes and dreams.

My other choice is that I can just divorce her and move on in my life. After about a year or so I will recover and start my new life. I can find someone else and not feel the betrayal or wonder if she is thinking of me or the OM during sex. I wouldn’t have to be worried about many things because she has not given me reason to worry.

So FWS – maybe you should be the ones to worry. But then again, tell me how this sounds after reading this post…

Don’t worry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

LittleBob,
I am not a FWS, but I know how you feel... maybe its like one of those times when people tell you to just "relax".
It is easy for them to tell you to just "relax", but for some reason hearing that makes it nearly impossible to do.

Bob, "don't worry" means "please don't catch me." Confucious say: only an insane person would trust an untrustworthy person. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Has your W ended the affair?

ML,

Your question is a good one.

"Has your W ended the affair?

Ummm... I think so. D-day was about 6 months ago. But then again, I was told to not worry.

Hopefully, you are watching her like a hawk?

What is your story, LittleBob? How did you get here and how are you doing?

As a FWS I think you should be worrying if your WW is not actually doing anything to work on the M.
I mean IC & MC and accounting for all her time, answering any questions you want in as much detail as you want, having NC and letting you get involved in setting that up.

Basically working her butt off to fix the things she did wrong.
Obviously there were issues in your M to let it to the place which allowed her to decide to act selfishly.
Now this may take some time due to withdrawal etc, but you should be seeing some signs or willingness to work on the M.

I feel the three most common options are ....there's still contact with OM, shes deep in withdrawal still and fogged up, or she's denying everything just hoping it will all go away..a different sort of fog altogether.

With the info you've given thats the best I can see from your post.

ML,

I’ve only posted a few times but I’ve been a dedicated reader since last X-mas. D-day was just a few days before X-mas because my wife dropped the ball.

Wife told me she was going to the office X-mas party that night and no spouses were invited. Not an issue because my company is the same way. Well, later that night one of her co-workers called to ask if she was coming to the party. I was concerned so I called her to see if she was OK. She said that she was having fun and the party was going well and she would be home late.

That’s when my investigation began. My brother works at the local PD and we have Lo-jack on our cars. He activated it and we found the car was at a motel about twenty minutes away from home. I’m sure you can figure out how the night went when I got there. Merry X-mas!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I was advised to do exposure from the PD social worker (he’s a family friend) and I did. The entire family became aware on X-mas day and her boss and co-workers found out through a singing telegram the next business day she went to work.

After 3 weeks of NC I found records of her calling him from cell phone and she admitted to this. Three weeks after that I did the 180 program. About 4 weeks later she came around and remorse was showing. MC/IC since then and things have been going up from there… I hope.

How lucky you were that the PD social worker understood the importance of exposure! If not, you would likely still be dealing with an on again, off again affair.

Now I understand where you are at in recovery and why you started this thread. You are at the infamous 8 month mark! The relief of saving your marriage has worn off and the anger has come to the forefront. You are asking yourself if you are a "chump" for settling for damaged goods when you could probably cut your losses and do better with someone else. Right?

Don't worry, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> we all go through it; it is the climax of your recovery and will get better from here on out.

LB,

Talk about irony. My wife (Undo) just told me that this morning. I was paying bills yesterday and noticed that the phone bill was higher than normal. I looked at the details and noticed some of the calls were to OM before D-day. That wasn’t what concerned me (though I was not happy that she called him from our home. Makes me wonder if there is anything else I should be aware of). I was wondering if he knew our home number by getting it from caller ID.

We have changed her work number and her cell number (but not our home phone number) and have not heard from him since (or so I’m told… don’t worry). Undo says that he can’t imagine the spineless ******* would ever call our house out of fear that I would answer the phone, track him down, and pummel him (wimp). Then again, this is the same person who told her that he would respect her wishes and not call her at work anymore… three times. Desperate people take desperate measures when all else has failed.

My point is that last night she woke up from a dream and while in a half-sleep mode she was saying that she had to contact her office to make sure they understood about NC. I held her and told her to back to sleep and dream of other things.

I then had a nightmare of her and OM. She was still contacting him in secret (of course, that’s why it’s called an affair – otherwise it would be considered swinging) and he was at the place where we are going to this weekend. My dream was of her being caught talking to him on the cell phone and I saw him outside the hotel window in his car waiting for her to come out so they could go away.

I told Undo about this and she told me, “Don’t worry.” I’m like you LittleBob, I heard that before and feel like it bit me in the ***. So I still feel a little gun-shy about automatically trusting her, but then again I also feel like it’s natural for me to trust her.

I don’t think she really takes the trust factor as serious as I do. I don’t monitor her phone calls and I don’t read her e-mails for obvious reasons. If she really wanted to contact him there is NOTHING I could ever do about it. She can always create a new e-mail account on a site that I’m not aware of and she can always call him from work because I can’t monitor those phones. All I’m left with is trusting her because I can’t watch her non-stop.

Anyone who says that she should let me know when she does this or that is not facing the reality of how affairs work. If she was still having the A then she would never tell me of those certain events and I would remain ignorant to the whole thing. Let’s face it, the A began due to my lack of observation and her ability to lie and take advantage of my love and trust that I swore I would give her. People who have affairs can become very creative when they need to.

I am convinced that she is dedicated to our M and that she will not betray me again. So when she tells me not to worry then I have no choice but to smile and say, “I love you.”

LittleBob,

Since your response is directed towards WS's I thought I'd give you my "honest" feelings.

I am a FWS, and I can say whole-heartedly to my H, when I tell him "not to worry" if the A is still ongoing and if NC is still continual... that there really is nothing to worry about. My commitment is strong to my H and to my marriage. So PLEASE do not assume all WS's out there are what you feel or describe. I know you're hurt and have had your heart/life, stomped on chewed up and spit out and now you're left to pick up the pieces.

Yes, we all have choices. I have made mine to make our marriage work. You have choices too. If you choose to give it a go and once your WS can give you a reason to “not worry”… embrace it. If you feel your marriage is not worth it, life does goes on and I wish you well.

I know what I've done has changed him forever, and will never take us back to where we once were. I know the level of trust may never be the same. But we know we’ll prevail and have a stronger open marriage. Become better and stronger partners/friends.

I HATE that I, a person who has tried very hard all my life to be a good person, to live a good clean life has done such a heinous act of betrayal. How could I EVER do such a thing. It is hard sometimes to look in the mirror to see that person I’ve become. I told my H, that I felt like a murder that killed what we and our life used to be.

When I’m having a “happy time” I feel guilty because I don’t feel I deserve to be happy. Or if I’m doing something that makes “me” happy I feel guilty. There was a time when my H lashed out during his anger phase, and said harsh hurtful words to me… he felt horrible for saying them and apologized repeatively. I kept telling him it was ok… I deserved it.

So you see LittleBob, some of us WS’s out here already feel like **** than **** So hey thanks for making me feel lower…

Undo

Nice, LB. You didn't even initially give her the chance to end the affair on her own. You ruined the family's holiday by exposing on Christmas day, then humiliated her at work and disrupted the business operations.

It's always been my understanding that exposure was not necessarily the first step to take -- that it was to be used when the BS doesn't end the affair and do NC. You didn't even give her a chance. Your "recovery" got off to a pretty rocky start, IMHO.

Had my H humiliated me like that so early in the game, without even giving me a chance to try to make things right, I don't think our M would have survived.

Now doing it after the three weeks when she was still in contact - that would have made more sense. But first thing? I don't think so. (Yes, I know that's not Harley-esque -- sue me!)

I, too, am a FWS, and I don't think I'm going out on a limb when I say that it takes two to recover. Part of recovery isn't holding the A over her head at every opportunity. What do you want your FWS to say when these things come up? I'm genuinely interested, as my H has continuing insecurities stemming from my efforts at self-improvement (weight loss, taking classes, etc. - stuff that I started doing long before the A and continue today)

Finally I will echo what Undo said... most of us FWSs, especially those of us here, already feel pretty crummy about what we did to you BSs. Trust me, it's been a low point of my life. And thanks to you and your generalizations, I, too, feel lower than low.

Have a nice weekend. Not sure I will.

Let's be clear here, GBH, it was the affairees who ruined their family's Christmas by having an affair and getting it on in a hotel room on Christmas eve. Christmas was ruined by the affair and nothing else. Nor does it matter if the WS ends their affair, the spouse of the OP, the other victim, should always be notified regardless of the affair status. So let's not blame the victim here, GBH, blame the the ones who caused the pain by having an affair.

LittleBob

are you both going to MC or your wife seeing a IC?

Are you guys following any plan to recover to just winging it day by day?

I am the FWW and I have to agree with Melody...It wasn't anything H did to expose or who he told that ruined things, ultimately it's MY shame and MY humiliation brought on by MY actions.

To be honest - I think the impact of when he exposed might have even been better because of the timing.

None of the guilt, humiliation or shame us FWW's has an fault of the BS's. It's all concequences to our own actions.

But I do agree with you and Undo we do feel pretty low...but don't blame the BS's on here for making you feel lower. Those are you own reactions to their remarks. This is how a FWW gets strong again - you need to stand tall remember you AREN'T that person. You aren't defined by that. As much as I can read all this and say - yes I was that person and yes I did those horrible things, I do so in sadness, but no longer with that overwhelming guilt and shame, because I know that person I was is long in the past and it's not who I am today. Remember that while you heal guys. You can make the changes - but you have to keep owning up to everything...and all the concequences, even if they suck for a long time...

"why do you worry so much?"

"why do you torture yourself with those thoughts?"


Yup, those comments make my head want to spin and spit pea soup!

I worry, I obsess, I torture myself with thoughts because I was hurt worse than I had ever been hurt before. I have given him my faith that he will now do the right thing and never hurt me like this again. I am putting my trust in him that there will never be any contact between him and her ever again. I handed him my heart, again. Scary stuff!

GBH: "Had my H humiliated me like that so early in the game, without even giving me a chance to try to make things right, I don't think our M would have survived."

Whoa, you've pushed my button.

What if he had a revenge A. Would that be OK with you instead?

This is still all about you, of course. Isn't it. You still need to be in control and you are still calling the shots, no matter what. No matter what you have done and will continue to do.

And BS better mind what you want. BS better not do anything whatsoever for himself or your marriage you don’t approve of. You can have an A but he cannot do anything you don’t like or you end the M.!

Argghhh.

I know your type. WS can have a sordid affair but BS cannot do anything at all about it unless WS approves in advance. It is usually a male BS that acts this way, not a WW. I learned something new today.

GBH: "And thanks to you and your generalizations, I, too, feel lower than low."

*****edit******


Why do you, by you I mean your particular type of egotistical adulterer, not just go with OM?

I mean, he was the light of your life, your one true love, your unholy provider of ENs, or whatever you said you are to each other while staring into each other’s eyes and having sex.

Why not just go? Or does he not even want you in the final analysis?

I often think everyone would be better off in the long run if you did. Really.


"Yes, I know that's not Harley-esque -- sue me!"

Consider yourself sued. And just for starters.

Dorry, I just adore you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

a little thread highjack here-hope you don't mind little bob

dorry, undo and aussie,
when i read your comments it helps me so much to better understand my husbands thoughts, actions, and feelings. it helps me begin to understand thati shouldn't take everything (anything?) he says to heart but i gotta tell you...i'm having alot of trouble with this part. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

if you don't mind, i would love to have your thoughts about the e-mail my husband sent along with our agreement and the e-mail he sent just yesterday telling me again that he's done.

he also says that the only way he can forget what he did and heal is to start over away from me. he says that he can't be with me because he will always have to remember what he did to me and to our marraige. I guess that'a his idea of taking the easy way out. i don;t believe it will work becuase what he did is in HIM not in me. and i kinda think it's just an excuse anyway. I'd love your thoughts

thanks!

and now...back to our regular program please

I have to agree with Mel on this one too.

It was MY actions that caused the hurt and pain, not any exposure..that was juat a consequence of MY actions.

As for feeling low, darn straight you do. I was constantly looking for a rock to crawl under, I felt cheap and slutty, like a piece of ****, shame & sorrow.

Do I still feel like that? Yes to be honest at times, no longer overwhelming or even significant, but rather a sad regretful feeling that I took something special from my H & MYSELF.

And stupid, so so stupid.

As a FWS you can work on yourself and at presenting yourself to your damaged H so they have some feeling of safety. Totally open to your H, tell him everything he wants to know about the A, maintain NC and if OM SHOULD POP UP SOMEWHERE TELL YOUR H right away. Thats just the beginning.

In the end I dont feel forgiveness can be bought or even earned. It has to be a gift freely given and to work and honour the one forgiving you, you need to accept that forgiveness and also forgive yourself.

But it can take a long time. Perhaps it should.