We had our 1st counseling session last night. As expected, it was very emotional on both sides. We go again Monday. I was shocked to get on here and see T_D's post. Look, as a WS I know I'm not going to be looked upon as the most honest of people, but T_D is truly not giving the whole story of what has gone on the past couple weeks. Yes, the 1st few days I was so overwhelmed by the fact that he was actually going to give me a chance, I was more affectionate. And yes, some of that has dropped off. BUT, there are many more reasons besides dealing with my feelings for OM than that. AND, the affection has not stopped, only dropped in frequency. I have been trying, hard, and it's a struggle, but I am fighting. He doesn't tell you that I have been either getting up with him, or calling him at work in the morning, to read scripture devotionals with him related to our recovery. He doesn't tell you about any of the efforts I have been making. And yes, I was calling and emailing to check in with him frequently, but the other night he told me several times that I have been making no effort in the recovery, which is way the phone calls and emails have dropped off the past couple days. He also doesn't tell you that the other night we were bickering, and it was just bad, and it was after 5 pm. I said I just wanted to take the kids to my parents' house (the have 5 acres and lots of stuff the kids love to do) for the night just to give us both a breather and the kids a break. I was told that I could go anywhere I wanted, but if I took the kids anywhere, he was filing for divorce the next day. He went to leave for an appt. he had and reiterated that if the kids weren't there when he got back, he was filing for divorce. He used our children to keep my trapped in the house. There are also things he did on D-Day that I don't think anyone would say were okay to do. Those have really started to bother me, and while I do try to keep them in perspective as to what he is going through, they still bother me and add to the emotional distance between us. I had left the kids at my mom's briefly that day to see if I could get advice from a lawyer as to was there anything I needed to do at that point. He says he thought I was going to get a court order to keep the kids away from him, and while I was gone, he took them from my mom. He then proceeded to leave them in the care of our SIL, who was in town from Florida. This woman and her husband have done many, many things to try to hurt our family, and she has never cared enough about our children to even send a single birthday card, and she hates me, and he gives our children to her. As soon as he saw me, he knew I did not have any court order, but he refused for several hours to tell me where the kids were. He used them as leverage to get me to answer questions, each time telling me he would tell me where they were if I would answer the question, but never following through. He even called SIL to chat with her several times in front of me, telling her to keep the kids away while I begged him in the background to tell me where they were. I also had a 3-stone diamond ring he gave me for our 1oth anniversary. He told me I had to give it to him and then he would tell me where the kids were. The couple whose house we were at have problems of their own, and due to a custody problem, a county sherrif and a local police officer showed up at their house. T_D made me bring the ring in in front of these officers, and forced me to say I was giving it to him of my own free will, and then he still did not tell me where the kids were. He also went on to tell these officers that if they get a call from our house that night with me claiming abuse, I am nothing but a liar, so they need to be aware of that. Again, I still don't know where my children are. He leaves, and I get in my vehicle to go out to his parents' house to apologize to them for what I had done, and SIL had just shown up there with the kids. I loaded them in my vehicle, with her all the while trying to stop me, and T_D on the phone with his father telling him to call the sheriff and have me arrested for trespassing. I had some money and clothes for all of us in my truck because I had thought we would have to stay at my mom's, and I could have gone anywhere I wanted, but I brought the kids home, because I knew keeping them from T_D out of spite was wrong, even after what he had done with them. T_D invited his brother and SIL (the same ones who have never had anything to do with us except to cause trouble) over to our house less than 14 hours after dicovery of my affair, and then insulted me over and over in front of them while I stood 2 feet away. I just stood there and took it. He also told our children (10, 7, and 2 1/2) that "Mommy decided to play married with OM." He TOLD them that, and with exactly who. Now, later the day after discovery, he started to soften, and when I saw he still loved me, it made me more sure that I should try to save the marriage. I shoved all that stuff aside. But now it is bothering me a great deal. There is also years worth of loss of intimacy and emotional separation that just doesn't go away. I am working on it, and trying hard, and I know T_D is hurting more than I can imagine, but he makes me feel as if all of my efforts mean nothing with the comments he makes.

As far as my comment to him about I worry if he can really frogive me for this, I do worry about that, and for good reason. At the age of 19, before we were married, I became infatuated with an older man I was working with. I went to a bar with him, had to much to drink, kissed him a couple times, but that was the extent of it. T_D married me after that, and has held it against me our entire marriage. He never let it go, which led to a lot of the problems prior to the A. Also, when his porn addiction was discovered at his job ( and you need to understand that this was YEARS of lies and deceict on his part about this, and a ton of hurt for me) I did not tell anyone at all but one friend whose husband was going to find out about it anyway due to the fact that his was a prosecutor where we were stationed. I never insulted T_D, never made him feel bad about what he had done, I just shoved all my feelings aside and did whatever I could to help him through that crisis. He promised me we would go to counseling once we moved, but that never happened, so all those issues are still there, along with the emotional abandonment issues. I am in no way trying to shift blame for my affair. It is my responibility. I made the choices. I am only trying to point out that I have many reasons to be scared about giving our marriage another shot, too. T_D latest behaviors have made my struggle to get over OM harder, but I am fighting. There has not been a connection for me with T_D for quite a while, and that makes trying to recover much harder, but I am here, I am trying, I do want to save this marriage, but sometimes I feel like it's hopeless. There's just so much to deal with. I know T_D is a very big person to even have given it another shot, and I am grateful, truly, and I do hope we can make it, but I, too, am scared.

Hi BT,

First - have you read the thread FL and I posted to you? Its here

Second - I recommend you read my guide for the Wayward wife found here



But he is giving the story from HIS perspecitve, and you should value that and try to see it from his POV. Most of us are aware there are ALWAYS two sides to every story, but even your story would sound different to TD as its from your persepctive. Always keep that in mind whn you read TD's stuff - that it is from his perspective and his perspecitve may be very different from yours making the story sound incomplete, but it is his perspective. I am only saying this because my H and I - our stories always sounded very different as we view things different - it doesn't make on of us more right than the other - each is from our own perspective.




He may not notice them yet, or his anger squishes the efforts. Patience, it may be months or even a year before he sees your changes and it takes time to see your efforts, but keep trying. He will see them. Don't look for gratification for those efforts. And make those efforts for YOU. It's the way YOU will heal.



I know this sucks - but he doesn't trust you right now - why should he, you lied, you humiliated him, you were places you really weren't. These will fade in time, but right now you need to make all the efforts to be where he can find you to not go places if he is uncomfortable with it. I wanted DESEPERATLY to go to my Mom's for a week during recovery, but it was in the same city as OM, and he didn't trust me...and so it was 7 months before I could travel to my moms. I just wanted to be someplace I was loved...and I couldn't be there. But by giving your H that time to heal by going with those restrictions you show him that really want to commit to making this work...and by showing him that commitment it will make him realize that he is willing ot make the changes YOU need. When you act like this, you only encourage him NOT to change because he sees that you aren't putting in effort.



I could give you a LIST of unacceptable behavior by my H on D-day and the months following. He was acting out of anger, hurt - you have NO clue what devestation he is feeling. I have been both the neglected FWW and the BS...and trust me - the hurt and depression I felt as the neglected wife were NOTHING compared to the hurt of the betrayel. You have to give him TIME to heal and process this, and you will get hurt by his actions and LB...which he SHOULD get under control yes, but You need to learn how to deal with them.

When he starts, tell him - honey - I am so sorry and I love you, and walk away. You may do this 40 times a day...but be consistant.



As on my recovery guide that I posted - this is EVERY FWW fear, and there is a chance he wont, but you need to give him EVERY opportunity to heal and learn to forgive. For MANY BS's this takes years! This is not gonna be quick - this is a long drawn out process with many ups downs and relapses. But by your actions so far, you aren't making it very easy for him to try to forgive you. You need to stop focusing on what HE needs to do and start focusing on what YOU need to do, as you can't heal him, you can't change him and you can't control his feelings - you can only do those things for YOU.



I know you are taking responsibility, that is great, but you really haven't taken responisibility for the concequeces to your actions. Your H is paying a dear price for his actions..you had an affair due to his contributions to the marriage, he is destroyed because of this...and yet, you seem very UNWILLING to accept any concequences to your actions, you want things to change and you want them to change NOW. It's not gonna happen fast, and you have alot to do on your part to make this work.


You need to hang in there and really listen to the advice given to you here. Some of us FWW can relate to EXACTLY how you are feeling - trust me - your posts sounds so much like me last year, I can't tell you how much I relate..but I am 9 months ahead of you, and I would love to help you learn how to change yourself, learn how to cope and deal and get through these things, as do many of the other FWW's on here. And I know you don't want to hear our advice as you may thing it doesn't relate to you - but it does relate to you more than you know.

Keep reading, keep learning and be strong and hang in there - you guys CAN survive, but it's going to be A LONG LONG ROAD - possibly even years.

BT -

I really have a lot of hope for your marriage. You are both still here, posting away and reading.

There are a ton of women here that have been through what you are going through. I'm sure that they will chime in here soon.

BT, I copied this from TD's thread. It is really hard to help you or read your posts if your are continuing to break NC. Write the letter and let TD read it and mail it. Do it today. Commit to trying to make your M work, if it doesn't then you will know that you did all you could to save your M and you can walk away with some honor. BT, coming on here and attacking TD is not helping you. I realize he has serious issues he brought to the M, but YOU are the one who had the A. MC will not help nor will you get your loving feelings back for TD if you do not stay NC for life.

Praying for both of you.

BT, would you consider talking to Steve Harley?****edit****
Ed and I counseled with Steve and he helped us a lot...however, as you know Ed was very involved in his A...!

PLEASE, PLEASE consider counseling. I think that they CAN HELP YOU save your marriage! I think of you every single day and I am praying for you!

love, kandi

BT, yep, TD has some bad habits all right. Help him break them.

If you recover together, he will have to learn forgiveness, and he'll have to learn how USELESS his anger is most of the time. That will be part of your recovery.

GC

I agree with GC. But you can't control him learning those things, the best thing you can do is learn to change YOUR behaviors - learn how NOT to react to his anger. This is force changes in him, and protect yourself. Alot of spousal neglect in marriages comes from you not standing up for youself in the RIGHT manner - not by throwing hurt back, not by standing firm and not budging, but learning how to communicate. I know this because I had to learn these things too, and the more I learn and implement, the more I see changes in my H.

I see the mistakes TD is making, I do - but the BS's here will help him. I want to help YOU, and I see so many WS mistakes you are making. If your goal truly is the marriage working then really consider what alot of the people here are saying to you and try to make those changes.

My opinion about how to choose a MARRIAGE counselor.

Pick one who knows how to have a successful marriage. I think that since your own situation involves some chronic emotional abuse, you ought to avoid counselors whose marriage has a long history of emotional abuse. ASK this question before signing on with any counselor.

One last thing in regards to T_D's newest thread. The phone call he made WAS to OM, not OMW. It just so happened she answered the phone and demanded to know what T_D knew or she wasn't going to let T_D speak to OM. The she put OM on the phone and T_D proceeded to curse him out and threaten him bodily harm if he ever came near me again.

BT--
I really do know how you feel. It sounds like you don't have any more trust in your H than he does in you. You both have hurt eachother so much in the past. A long time ago someone on this board asked me "what kind of person do you want to be?" If you can't yet do the right thing for your M, do it for YOURSELF. You want to respect yourself, right? You want to love yourself, right? This board can help you figure out why you have done what you have done, and help you to get through it. I know you feel angry at your H for telling the OMW. Can you at least admit to yourself that you are still caught up in the OM and therefore in a fog? Can you try to have a shred of respect for your H that he is fighting for your M? Turning from the addiction of the OM is one of the hardest things you will ever do. Right now your H wants to help you. Try to keep telling yourself how lucky you are that he is willing and that he loves you and the M that much. Take his help. Take our help. Stop worrying about the future and take care of now. Write the NC letter and do whatever it takes to stop contact. Do it one step at a time.

BT,

I just want to say thank you for sticking around.

Also, keep striving to lose OM! He is NOT relationship/marriage material right now! If in a long while you and TD can't recover, then might be a time to pursue another relationship, but NOT RIGHT NOW!

Give your marriage a good hard try! Make it honest! Make it ALL true! Do your best! Become your BEST!

You can do it! Please keep trying, even if the future is shady.

No one wants you to be in a marriage that you CAN'T be happy in, but how do we know that your marriage can't recover unless you give it the "ole college try?"

You seem a very decent, hurting woman. I'll bet OMW is also a very decent, hurting woman. There are two marriages at stake. Let's give them a chance to work. Okay?

Keep in mind, it takes time, though. Give it that time. Try everything. If it doesn't work out, you'll have built a lot of character, learned a lot about life and marriage, and will be a stronger person for it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

~ZP

This is normal, BT. It seems rash, and it is, but it's normal for a man to feel that way. Heck, a lot of women feel that way too.

He feels betrayed and he's angry. No excuse for acting like an [censored], but he does need to express it. It's also right for him to do what it takes, short of bodily harm, to protect his marriage so that it can heal. Exposure, though horribly painful for you, I'm sure, can help with that.

~ZP

Z_P: "Also, keep striving to lose OM! He is NOT relationship/marriage material right now!"

Right now?

He is a lying, cheating adulterer! He will never ever be (good) marriage material.

****edit*****

The rest of your post makes good sense.

Another thing: no one wants your M to go back to the way it was. The board sees the need for you both to change. YOu do see that, dont you? Go ahead and keep posting on your H's threads--call him out when you disagree with the things he says. MB is not all against you and for your H. They are for your M.

LOL. I'll consider it left out.

Yes, right now. I mean it. He may be a good man, someday. If we say he's a lying, cheating adulterer and will never be good for R/Marriage, we must also say that about BT, or any other WS, ever.

There are some who are predators. I don't know that this OM is, but I wouldn't doubt it if it proved he was, because they are all a bit predatorial, even BT. But that's a whole different issue.

Thanks for the kudos on the rest. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

~ZP

This is not out of the ordinary post-D day betrayed husband behavior.

This is expected. Not at all extraordinary.

Hang in there. Things will get better.

ZP and Aph--
I think when a WS is in the "fog" it is actually a good way to communicate that "right now" the OP isn't marriage material. A WS in a fog isn't going to see that the OP is horrible. It is fruitless to even say it and it just makes the WS want to defend the OP.

I think pretty much every male BS that talks to the OM does this. My H sure did and I think the fear of my H kept OM away which was GOOD!!!! I know Bob_Pure put the same fear in his wife's OM. Your OM is not leaving you alone as you have NOT made NC, so your H is arranging NC for you...something you should have done right the first time. Albeit he is handling it with anger and probably not the right way, NC must be made for you guys to succeed.

Hey, cool. I've been edited by Justuss. First time ever.

But I'm not really sure why.


Look, saying right now to BT is like leaving a door open for the A to continue some day down the road. The last thing BT (or T_D) needs (right now) is to think anything good might ever germinate in scum like him.

NC means NC. Forever. No hopes. No unlocked rooms. No nothing. He is unworthy - now and forever.

For BT's sake.

Okay, BT, I hear you. This is abuse and it needs to be dealt with.

But, having an affair will not solve these problems. I think what you're saying by it is, "I love you TD, but I can't live like this." Because if you really wanted to leave, you could/would.

So, let's start there. Let's lose the OM. Okay? He will not help you. Besides, he's married. He's going to have to balance you with his own home life. You need more support than that.

Are you in Individual Counseling (IC)? If not, you need to get there, ASAP. You need to deal with this storm of feelings you have.

Next, trying to keep OM out of the picture, consider Plan B. Seems impossible yeah? Feel free to email me at [email]zuzuspetalsmb@aol.com.[/email] I know some great people and they can help us figure this out, for free, I think. This is hard for me. LOL. I try not to get involved in both sides, because there is so much to consider, which is why I think it best if you email.

~ZP