So... it has been a while since I talked about me around here, so let's see if I can manage it.

The Chicago trip is over now. Thank God. Why you ask? Well, for a number of reasons. 1 - it is seen as an 'evil' place to my wife since the behaviors that led up to my A shortly after began there. Sort of. I hated that she and I had to go there. Funny... a vacation you 'have' to go on. but, if you have family like we have family, and they don't know the whole story, then you sometimes can get caught up in this sort of thing. They don't know we aren't big fans of the place and we go because the kids want to go and we need to get out of the house... and so on. All very convoluted really, but we survived it. It seems, anyway.

I actually talked about details. Nasty ones. Not that I am to be commended or something, but at least that is progress on a front I was not doing well on. Thats the upside. The downside is it is horribly painful to talk about this stuff with her and mostly from the 'this is killing her' POV. Yeah, it sucks for me because of shame and all, but wow... I really thought about what I would be doing if I was in her shoes hear this crap I was telling her. Talk about suck. She has talked more and more about leaving me and I don't blame her. It is just utterly painful and it sucks. I just don't have ANY better adjectives. So, the upside(which is were the reason for all this is) She has less to fear because less is unknown to her. I pray she stays with me through all this because I really would never be the man I want to and can be without her. She thinks I don't want to be alone. She is dead wrong, although believing me is shotty. I can't be without her. I never knew that before. Another thing I learned, albeit possibly too late. I have that one down. She is beautiful and everything to me. Anyway, I know she will read this and I am not kissing [censored]... so I will just stop.

The Art Institute in Chicago was very cool. I actually SAW paintings I only saw in books during Humanities classes in college. That was extremely cool... but enough on that.

telling half truths after DDay WILL GET FOUND OUT. And they will take you back to square one. And to think, had I come clean 8-9 months ago, I'd be 8-9 months into recovery.. instead of at the doorstep again... and again. That is my new painful realization. So... if you are a WS and you think hiding this stuff or only telling half the truth is helping.

wrong.

Sometimes no matter what people tell you, you have to experience the ouch yourself to understand. To get it. I certainly wish THIS was one of them I would have listened to and done no matter how scared I was or how much I was in conflict avoidance mode.

Which brings me to something else. Conflict avoidance does only one thing. Causes more conflict. What a crapshoot. Well... I will clarify. It causes more conflict with a conflict non-avoider. People that are healthy and deal with things don't take to kindly to CA folk. I have found, in my experience, that I have rarely run into a non-CA person. They are everywhere. Hiding things that directly affect you from you. Anyway, I am dead tired of walls being between me and my wife. I am still learning how to deal with the conflicts in life in a constructive way(because I easily fit into the blow-up for no real good reason catagory if I want) in my relationship... but the one thing I found I can not 'learn' or take time to do is be honest about my feelings. Not that I am maliciously trying to lie to froz, because I am not, but it is extremely important to her to have the WHOLE story of my feelings. Maybe that makes perfect sense to you and you wonder why I would keep things inside... but I could go into the whole story of my family I grew up with you and you would see where I learned it. I see where I learned it. Anyway, I am doing my best to be open with who I am. This truly is about her knowing what she is dealing with. And who she is dealing with.

Maybe Chicago was not the place to start talking about details... but then I have been using everything as a reason not to discuss them. That had to stop. Still have some road to travel, but I am further than I was, so that is something.

Froz has a talking relationship with OW's OM #2. I don't like it. I want her to stop talking to him. But, I want to be a husband she lives and shares life with, not lives under and is ruled by. She is not less than me. So, I will talk to her about this. We will see where it goes. I certainly want to protect my marriage, and I see OM#2 as a person not on my side. But, he doesn't seem to be out to get me either... It is a conflict and I must talk to froz about it.

I am beginning to understand why she thinks she is not dealing with the whole story with me. What I really want, I mean. I defer to her on everything. Not a bad quality, but I also have things I want to do alone(like play a game on the computer... not a chronic habit anymore... just something to do that is fun) but sometimes I defer to her and then she can tell that I would rather be doing something else. If I was just completely honest with her about what I want to do and how I feel, she could find comfort in the fact that I do want to spend time with her... instead of feeling this wall because I am defering to her and would rather do something else. I am not explaining this very well... but I totally understand what I am talking about. It all just comes back to the make sure I spend 15 hours with her(and I want to really) but always let her know what I want, so she knows me. And if she knows me, then she can love and trust me. It seems all very simple in definition, but I just make it difficult in practice. Let's hope I have nipped that.

Man is she strong. Dealing with me dropping the ball on some things and still being here? Strong.

Anyway, I want to go spend sometime with her right now, so I will come back to this later.

Oh... and Dorry. Good job on your recovery guide... you one-upper. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pat, all I can say is wow! Great post and FINALLY you are getting "it". Tell Froz we are here for both of you and want to support both of you.

telling half truths after DDay WILL GET FOUND OUT. And they will take you back to square one. And to think, had I come clean 8-9 months ago, I'd be 8-9 months into recovery.. instead of at the doorstep again... and again. That is my new painful realization. So... if you are a WS and you think hiding this stuff or only telling half the truth is helping."

2 day ago, 8 months after Dday, my wife wrote me a letter explaining her A to me, how they started, when/where they met, etc. trust me when I tell you that anything she said hurt me. Does it matter she had sex 3 times with her XBF when she first said, 0 then 1 then 2? Should I feel sad if they had this or that kind of SF? If they met in a hotel or they did in the car is it relevant? In the mind of the BS we have gone through all the worst scenarios, and given that we are in the dark about hte facts they feel real. By the time she came into the light with me I had built a resistance which protected me from the facts. Was it worthless then? NO. The simple fact that she had the courage to tell me that it was her who called her OM#2, that she tried to have SF in OM#1 house, meant the world to me. This is the first time she told me somethinng which I didn't already know, and as such I feel this is the first time she is telling me the truth. Would I have suffered more if she told me all this on Dday? No doubt. But still I rather take all the pain at once, one shot, and then time to recover. Instead we spent 8 months pouring salt in my wounds. But all that is in the past now. I feel great today, like I haven't felt in a long time. It is time to rebuild. I hope if any FWS is reading this it willhelp them to make up their minds and come clean. Take care.

Pat - all I can say is I am proud of you for finally starting the changes. Hang in there - you are back to day one - but I truly believe you guys can do this!!!