I'm in my first 24 hours on this board, and I want to thank all of you for all of your insight, sharing your deepest emotions and helping others in the same situation.

From my first post in Just Found Out, I detail why I suspect the A, and provided some other information in this board under "revenge".

H is away on a trip for 11 days, so I'm getting more chance to think about stuff without any confrontation. On the rare, once-a-day calls from H, I'm not being hostile, but I just don't know what to expect. From hearing your stories, it sounds like all ****** will break loose when D-day comes. Has anyone had recovery without the big D-day? It seems this is a necessary part of the recovery process, but maybe I'm wrong.

With two kids under 9 in the house, I'm in this "should I stick with it for the kids?" mode. Maybe I should just stay quiet, avoid confrontation, and hope the A ends on it's own.

I don't want to sound naive, and yet this will be a difficult decision. I went out and bought a recorder so I can get at least one side of his conversations. I guess I need to brace myself for the kind of crap I'm going to hear, right?

I really want to stay level-headed for the sake of the kids. We've really sacrificed a lot to raise these little ones, and I'd hate to blow it all now. I'm the adult, right? Shouldn't I try to shelter them from the potential storm? Anyone with guidance on these subjects has my gratitude!!!!

Do you think he's cheating? single choice
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IAM, D-day is the first step in recovery in an affair. There can be no recovery if the affair is not brought out in the open. You can't fix a problem if the problem is kept secret. It does sound to me like he is having an affair. Is there no way you can get on his computer and install a keylogger? What if you told him your computer wasn't working and you needed to use his? You could get on it long enough to install a keylogger and program it to mail reports to you.

Hi Melody,
H has kept his computer locked to me ever since I discovered three years ago that he spoke badly about me to his worthless brother. Brother has hated me for almost 20 years because he wanted to date me before H, and was turned down. Says terrible things about me, and H wasn't sticking up for me. MC said H HAD to stand up for me. H said he would, but then locked out his computer. Our network administrator knows his password, but H has instructed him not to give it to me. H won't even ask me to log on for him, even if it is a work crisis. (We own an corporation together, and I'm president, he's VP.) His old password, when he did need me to get on for an absolute emergency, was "snoop". ******. Guess I should have figured he'd find someone eventually, but I didn't think he had enough access. It's like murder, they expect Means, Motive and Opportunity to convict. He had Means and Motive, but no opportunity. Guess he figured out a new way. Just re-name me "the village idiot." I'll keep you posted on what the digital recorder finds when he returns in about 9 days. Thanks for the advice. I really screwed this one up. (But so did he!)

I'm no computer expert by a long shot, but I thought someone here said that if the computer is on a network, you can install spyware on one computer, and it will let you know what is going on, on the other computer.

I would just add that people who have nothing to hide, don't hide.

Well said both of you. H has spyware detector installed, and yes, my computer is open for the world to see. He clearly has something to hide. I'm going to get onto that computer someday, though.

Ok, I've been working on getting my financial house in order, and will FINALLY be confronting WH with his on-going A. (Have to wait until then because he's on a "work trip" where he's banging OW right now. I have all my evidence, I have a list of demands, such as NC, etc. Couple of questions:
Through my audio taping, I've discovered that there are a few people who probably have known about the A for some time, but have said nothing to me. In my list of demands, I want to ask for NC with any of those people, either. They are enemies of the marriage, right? (BTW, one is his brother, another is a very close friend of his.)

I've mapped out what I want, and I'm asking for NC to start EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY. Is that reasonable or achievable? (I've said if NC is broken by him, I will dissolve our corporation and cancel all his contracts, and tell all his clients about the A.)

I have a list of folks I plan to expose the A to...family, close friends, distant friends, kid's school contacts, community contacts, and work contacts. If, by some miracle, H decides to go ahead with NC, and writes the letter right away, and opens up his computer, etc., exactly WHO should I expose to? I'm pretty sure my mom and dad would never want to talk to him again, at least if I expose while the A is still fresh.

Thanks for all of your help. I've been off the board for about a week while getting myself set up for a possible D. I figure I better be ready in case this doesn't go well.

FYI, in keeping with the MB philosophy, I've been trying very hard to avoid LB's and try to meet all EN's (except for sex, which will not happen until he gets tested). I think he might be feeling some remorse about the A, because I've noticed a sad look every once in a while. But who knows where his head is at?

Is the OW married? Does she work with your husband?

On D-day, I would just ask him to have NC with the OW, and write a NC letter. I would not throw in the brother, friends, etc. The main thing is that the affair stops. The rest can be dealt with later.

Don't know if the OW is married, but I'd presume not. She lives in another town. I think they hooked up because he must visit her worksite for projects. I know her name, but Google didn't give me anything, and I haven't hired a PI. They do most of their talking by email and cell phone. Cell phone I can trace to her number, but it's another cell. H has me locked out of his computer, and spyware detectors all over the place.

Like many other folks, I didn't think this would happen to me, and I've pretty much been in shock for about a month. Haven't confronted him because I didn't know what to do next, and I didn't have 100% proof. I could go up to the town they are in right now, I have the hotel and everything. My kids are with me, though, and I don't think I want them to see daddy kissing on another woman. They're 8 and 4. I'm pretty much in a bad place here.

Hello

1. Don't involve kids at all. In fact, in recovery it's nice to have a place where you are not constantly talking about the affair. You can Plan A more effectively when you're both at least playing nice in front of the children. Our 5 year old D will probably never know of her mother's infidelity and that's the way it should be.

2. Careful of ultimatums. You setting yourself up for failure when you demand a drug addict just quite cold turkey. MB principles are sound but not perfect. What happens when an ultimatum is breached and you don't follow through with the punishment? I mean "cancelling contracts" really punishes you also. Remember, chances are very good your marriage will be saved in the long run if you choose. Just by merely being "strong willed" at the beginning of this process does not guarantee success. And successfully restoring your marriage is your goal not punishing your Wayward Husband. Let him do that to himself.

3. Avoid ever telling your parents. They will have little influence pressuring your WH to end his affair. Put them way down the exposure list until WH moves out. You can just tell them your having problems and may need there assistance as you and WH try to work some things out.

4. Are you certain the friends are an enemy of the marriage? IMO, minding their own business is not being supportive. They may be telling WH that he is an idiot. They may help him out of the fog in the future. You may be pissed at them but leave them out of it. Your WH is going to have many justifications and rationalizations, one of them probably being "You're controlling". If you start dictating friends and cutting out his brother it will just feed his justifications. DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE LATER.

You've got just a few more days. I know how much it must be eating at you. Perhap's you'd love to have him confess and just open up his heart to you. Never happens that way. My thoughts and prayers are with you. Good luck.

Mr. Wondering

P.S..- Are you going to tape D-Day?, What's your plan?, Have you done a spyware search on your computer? Make sure he doesn't see it coming. More chance for him to create a plan of denial.

Thanks for the advice. I am vacillating between wanting revenge and wanting to work it out. I'm so hurt right now, that a hour ago I was laying in my bed (both kiddies had crawled in, since dad is out of town) as I was patting them both in the dark, I had tears going down my face and I was stifling sobs. WH is out at a resort bar (a place where we used to go to have fun) and is staying at a four star hotel (a place that we used to go to together), and right now, while I'm crying and patting the kids, he's busy banging her, and sharing his deepest feelings with her. I do not know if I can survive this and ever forgive him for all this pain. Nothing I've ever done is bad enough to deserve this.

I've been where you are right now, back in June. I had gathered my own information, but then hired a PI because I knew my FWH would never confess without the hard evidence. So while I was gone with the kids(11 and 7) on a week trip he was being followed. The PI called me evry night to let me know where he was. Of course that killed me, knowing that right at that moment he was with ow. I was in a very bad place during that week and I know the devastation you are feeling. Try to keep functioning until you can confront. I found that I could maintain for a couple of hours and then I would have to retreat to someplace private and break down. That's all I could do. So do what you can.

I too felt "how can I survive this and then forgive him?" I just couldn't see it. My DDay he called me and found out that I had called owh. He started up with his babble and I finally had to say over the phone that I knew about the A but I didn't want to do this over the phone. I told him, calmly, to just come home. I had to wait about 3 hours before he got there. But I remained calm. I had the kids at their grandmother's for the night. They definitely did not need to see or hear this. I recommend that if you can, send your children to a babysitter or parent. Remain calm. Gather your strength. Let him know that you KNOW about his A and that it must end if you two are going to have a chance.

I was "lucky" so to speak, my FWH was remorseful, not mad. He apologized over and over. Not all WH are going to act as he did. I gave him a little while to establish NC with the ow. He has maintained it for about 1 month. OW has not, she still tries to contact him.

I know I felt this dark cloud come over me during the
time that you are in right now. I could just feel it coming. So much pain.

((((((((hugs)))))) to you. I know waiting is terrible. Just make sure you have your ducks in a row and try to remain calm.

BTW I only exposed to owh. My in laws knew and were helping me. I have not exposed to anyone else because the A ended. My family does not know. I felt that they would not be supportive of FWH and the M if I did. It would give them 1 more reason to dislike him.

Hope this helps. I know it's terrible. Take each day one at a time. And try to take care of yourself.

Anger, resentment, bitterness, spite are not going to assist you in saving your marriage. I understand your feelings, putting my daughter to bed was the most difficult thing to do during that time in my life.

Your marriage, if saved, can and most likely will be better than your pre-affair marriage. Right now, you are the only one that cares about your marriage and saving it. You are actually fighting for him and for you. Decide now that it's worth it to you. Decide for yourself "I want to stay married and fight for this man". If it doesn't work, so be it. You'll be proud YOU stood up for what is right and fought for your family. But you can't be waffling yourself while you go through this process. The taker in you will throw out too many L.B.'s diminishing the effectiveness of Plan A and later Plan B if you ever get that far.

I've seen it on these boards many times. Man have much more trouble breaking up affairs, doing the exposure thing; however, men generally can handle swallowing their pride for a time and putting the affair behind them much better for the sake of their families. Women expose like crazy, rein in their man immediately then can't help themselves, they beat him down continually with resentment and bitterness. It's just an observation, but too many times I see the WH get back in line for a few weeks/months only to take off with OW later claiming "my wife won't forgive me and get over it". Unfortunately, your going to have to be the man, woman, wife and husband of this relationship for a little while.

If your WH does jump back in line, make your home a safe place within which to communicate. Instead of the Oprah "gratefull journal", keep your "resentment/bitterness journal" to vent into to help you keep calm while your WH goes through withdrawal and recovery. You can make him stop contact but you can't make the "feelings" he had or just believed he had go away. Understand the process. Dr. Harley doesn't seem to differentiate between the sexes. You are going to have to be very flexible, patient and understanding. For example, if you get NC are you prepared to comfort your WH as he goes through withdrawals? Are you prepared to allow WH to process that OW was a predator, sneaky, adulterer and not the good person WH believe she was instead of beating it into his brain yourself? From all your prior posts I think you are, if you decide to endure it.

Final thought. It's difficult to work on your marriage unless your together under the same roof. Set a Plan A timeline (3-6 months), before you even discuss or threaten to kick him out. Throwing him out should not be one of your ultimatums or conditions on D-Day or thereafter. If he brings up moving out, be prepared to say no. He won't know what he's saying (fogged out). He's only offering because he knows being at home "working on your marriage" is not nearly as fun as being out of the house, no kids & with OW but he'll say "I'll move out if it would make things better for you", like it's doing you a favor. Have a plan for how you want to respond to this and other fog babble you'll surely get.

Good Luck,

Mr. Wondering

Just a rule of thumb, exposure is the probably the most effective method of ending an affair and is not a female tactic, but a Marriage Builders tactic. Harley recommends doing "everything short of taking out a billboard." It is a tried and true method in ending the affair.

But, it should be used for that purpose in a strategic manner. The purpose is not for revenge. If the WS ends the affair, there is no reason to expose to anyone except the OP's spouse. [who should be notified no matter what] The WS' parents are always a good exposure target as they are often very influential people in the WS' life.

Thanks for good advice, everyone. It's morning now, and I'm feeling a little better. Seems like a new day always gives me more hope. I've always been a very proud person, and throughout our MC, I've told H that respect is my biggest EN. My whole family is the same as I am. This process will be difficult for me, because I must swallow my pride, and deal with the ultimate act of disrespect. I think I'm going to expose to H's family, and a couple of mutual friends, to "let the cat out of the bag." I think Wondering is right, that exposing to our corporate contacts at this point pretty much seals the big D. I'm taking a deep breath.....
PS>>Phone just rang, H is at his wonderful resort getaway--but came down with the flu last night! Hope he gives it to the OW and it ruins their week! I'm a big believer in karma, so maybe this happened so instead of picturing them in bed having passionate sex, I can picture them with high fevers, lots of snot, and aching throats!

imanotherone - Let me ask you a question that you need to ask yourself before your emotions overwhelm your actions and defeat your intended purpose.

Do you want to be married to your husband or do you want to be right?

I assume that you are planning on "d-day" in an effort to save your marriage, but CAN choose divorce also.

So, first things first, simply because things may not "work out" the way you hope they will. Contact and attorney NOW to get everything you need to proceed with a divorce and to protect both yourself and the children if recovery does not work out.

This is especially vital since you appear prone to take the ULTIMATUM approach to all of this. IF he does not "fold" and acquiese to your "demands," what will be your "next step? Here's the ONE RULE regarding ultimatums that you MUST embrace and be ready for....ultimatums have consequences attached to them that will take place depending upon how the person being given the ultimatum reacts...and YOU must be ready to ENFORCE the consequence no matter what you may be feeling or all "threats" and "ultimatums" in the future loose their potency and are simply seen as pathetic attempts to manipulate his behavior.

Now, with respect to the computer issue. YOU are President of the company and the Network Administrator "won't" give you the access? Excuse me, but there is no such thing as privacy on company computers and networks. The employer has the right to see it ALL. Time to have a "heart to heart" with your Network Administrator about who is the employer and who is the employee...and whether or not they wish to remain employed. YOU are the PRESIDENT, start acting like one!

Regarding "D-day," reserve it for exposure of the FACTS. You need FACTS, not speculation, so make sure you have facts that he "can't deny." Make it clear that he needs to make a choice, your love for him and his marriage to you, or divorce. Nevermind all the "details" at this point. What he needs to "understand" is that it's no longer a "secret" and it is up to him to CHOOSE, and then YOU will CHOOSE whether or not he is sincere in wanting to remain married EXCLUSIVELY to you or to get a divorce (hence the pre-work with an attorney because he could easily "choose poorly" once again).

If there is any vacilation on his part, strongly consider kicking him out of the house so he can "think about it" and all he is about to lose.

After that...the real work will begin to either rebuild your marriage or to rebuild you life as a single Mom.

God bless.

Thanks forever!
Yes, I CAN ask the network admin for the password to H's computer, but I told H that I trusted him, and that I did not need to see what he was doing with personal notes. (He forwards me all business related emails.) I have already talked to a lawyer, and a forensic accountant, to make sure nothing is being hidden financially. I am prepared to go that route.
I think you, melody, wonderings, and others have really raised the question that haunts me: DO I REALLY WANT THIS MARRIAGE TO SURVIVE? My actions seem to say yes, since I haven't confronted him with this yet, nor given him any deal-breakers yet. I guess I just don't know. We have wonderful kids, a profitable business, I respect him immensely professionally. Although I thought my feelings for him emotionally were ambivalent, my rage is starting to be replaced a little bit by sorrow. Sorrow for what? I'm not sure yet. We DID have a great marriage before the kids, but we made the classic mistakes and poured all of our heart and soul into the kids. As MB literature says, we didn't get married because we thought we'd make good parents--but that seems to be the only thing we do anymore. We've both battled with depression from time to time, and we both have advanced degrees (I'm a master's degreed engineer and MBA, and he's a Ph.D. in engineering.) Up until now, we've always really admired folks who do a great job on their children and families. My husband seems to have developed a dichotomy, though. He almost thinks we should home-school the kids (on top of regular school), but he seems to be admiring my professional lady friends who leave their kids in daycare all day long so they can become mega-athletes. I can't get a read on where he is going with this. Sorry for the digression.

In a nutshell, maybe I'll know more about whether I want the marriage after I hear his thoughts when I confront him with the A. Will he say he loves me, but I'm just not meeting all his needs? Will he say he respects my parenting skills but we've lost passion? Will he say he's been loosing interest because I've been neglecting my own personal fitness and hygiene? Those are answers I can live with.

But, if he says he's been living a lie, and the only reason he hasn't asked for a divorce is because he didn't think I could handle it? Or if he says he finds me repulsive and can't stand the thought of looking at me? Or if he says the OW is the perfect soulmate (even in the fog)? I just don't know if I can suck it up and give it a try. I'm on shaky ground already. Sorry to babble so much!

There is a gizmo you can buy out there that attaches to the keyboard, between the cord and where it connects to the back of the computer. It acts like a little memory drive and is a keylogger. It doesn't show up as spyware because it's not software. And you can access it later and see what it recorded as far as keystrokes...you will definitely find his password, and you will see what HE writes...

I will get the keylogger, and hopefully he has not installed a keylogger detector. Honestly, though, I don't think I'm going to find anything else I need in the emails right now. Probably just more hurtful babble while he's in the fog.

Question about this Plan A stuff--
When I confront him about the A, do I ask for the NC immediately, or do I give him a grace period to decide? Former WS's, can you tell me that after being confronted, you still went and slept with the OP, and were able to go back and make the marriage work, even after all that?

I just can't seem to get past the fact that I might save my marriage, but I won't be left with a shred of dignity. Help me understand how I'm going to get through this--I'm already taking antidepressants and antianxieties, but don't think there's enough drugs out there to keep me sane through this.