ima...

Since Toolman has decided to go underground again, and is now reading here, it's time to show him that there is more than one way to skin a cat...

Contact us here the_wonderings@yahoo.com so that we might be of further assistance to you...

Toolman...We are not trying to isolate you with this, you are more than welcome to email us also, but fair is fair, and you promised to try...Where is your honor here? With all choices that we make as adults there are consequences...

We are not choosing individual sides...we are on the side of your marriage...

Mr. & Mrs. Wondering

Somewhat hopeful news...I spoke to WH on his cell a little bit ago, and told him that I was hurt by him changing his password. He said he was afraid OW would email him something to try to cause trouble and he wanted to intercept it to avoid futher pain. I told him I'd rather read something painful, but know you were open about it, than have him "spare me the details," and have me guessing about what was going on. At that point he agreed, and gave me his password, without having seen his incoming messages. I plan to tell him I'm grateful he understands my position, and I promise not to use any incoming messages from the OW/OG against him, since he is not the one who wrote them. I'd like to show that I can be trusted, too. What do you think?

FOG BABBLE!!! What could she say that would be any worse for you than her contacting him at all? ANYTHING that she could say in an email could easily be discussed by the two of you...unless, she would be revealing things that HE doesn't want you to know...there shouldn't be anything like that since Toolman has "commited" to trying to save your marriage...EVERYTHING must be "laid bare" between a married couple, painful or not! Toolman...the betrayal that has occured is the WORST pain that you could inflict on Ima...The details of that betrayal are merely superfluous...



How do you know that he hasn't seen his incoming messages?Sorry to be a "Doubting Thomas" here, but since I myself was recently the deceiver, I know that there are many "tricks of the trade" when it comes to things like this...Further, as soon as I knew that my H had access to my regular email acct., I promptly set up the secret email acct. that most all of us WSes had...Just trying to keep Ima vigilant and Toolman honest...I really don't mean to be a pest...


This is good, as it provides a safe environment from which to share...It promises no DJ's and the like...keep it up Ima!

Mrs. Wondering

Mrs. W...
Thanks for keeping us honest. I would have to say it's highly unlikely that WH checked his email before giving me his password. I suppose he could have gotten a message from her and deleted it earlier this am, THEN went on to change password in case she tries again. BUT...for my own sanity, I'm going to presume he has not gone underground with the A. I really hope he understands how much faith I still have to extend to him, since he's gone a lot of the time. I'm just asking him to make a serious gesture at being open where it is sensible, since it means a lot to me. My gut tells me he doesn't have secret email accounts and secret communication lines, but I'm going to remain vigilant, since my gut has been wrong before. I'll make a strong resolution to avoid LBs and try to just communicate as reasonably as I can.

I'm thinking about scheduling an appointment for WH and I with the Harleys. Can anyone give me an insider's view? I know we fill out some questionaires and other stuff, but what else can we expect? Does he talk to us together or alone or both? Should we finish reading the books before we schedule, or is it better to do simultaneously, to avoid getting any more bad habits?

While the hourly rate seemed high at first for phone counseling, I figure (1) it's a lot cheaper than a D attorney, and (2) it comes with this "free" support group!

PS>>Feeling a little better now, since WH has given me the computer password again. Funny, but it seems like I'm feeling more optimistic at night, and less in the morning. I would have thought it would be the opposite.

Ima...

You may have more luck getting your questions about the Harleys addressed by changing the title of your entire thread...I know that you have been changing it within the thread, but to get more attention to specific issues it will help to change how it appears on the "main" GQII board...you can do that by going to your very first post, clicking the "Edit" button and then making the appropriate title changes there...hope that helps...

I do know that betrayedbob was schelduled to have an appt today with Steve Harley...he might be able to offer you some insight...

Mrs. Wondering

thanks, Mrs. W. Actually, I've changed the title a few times, I think. Even today, in a moment of weakness, I changed our title to I & T, any hope? vs. work in progress. I guess I'll change it to a more positive title next time. I really like thndrnlghtning's feminine hygiene title! Hey, on another question about the boards...how do you veterans get those cool quote boxes made when you're handing out those 2 x4's? Is that an html command, or something unique to this board?

Instead of hitting reply, or using Quick Reply, hit quote and edit it down to the paragraph you want to emphasize.

In the alternative, use the quote command on the Reply page and type in the language your quote or cut/paste language your quoting. You must put |quote| before what you are quoting and |/quote| at the end of that quote.

EX: If you wish to quote the sentence... I am sorry.
It would look like this as you were posting... |quote| I am sorry.|/quote| (I used the vertical line instead of the brackets to keep it from actually creating a quote box rather than showing you how to type it)

Mr. Wondering

Thanks for that nice understanding thought amidst all the brutal floggings. All of the posts have helped me see how important it is to at least try to work on a marriage, and see that it may actually be possible to rebuild. Everyone I have talked to agrees that I should give it my best effort. Especially because ima is making great strides and being far more reasonable than I could ask her to. And because giving our kiddies the best trumps all.

Even with this though, all I have is faith that we can actually do it from a practical pov. It has been extremely difficult for ima to trust again, understandably. And the downside of our successful business is that we are both very busy trying to satisfy and keep our high-end (read: demanding) clients. Our kiddies cute smiling faces make it all worthwhile. We have MC again Sat.

Toolman;

Glad to see you survived the flogging and continue posting. We've stated several times that someday you'll look back at this thread and understand that we are being supportive to you, Ima, your marriage and your family.

You didn't say this here but if you're like me you thought it over the last few years about your wife. You thought you were trying and after years of frustration you gave up. You believed the adage, "you can't change someone". However, this adage doesn't fit your situation anymore because you aren't the one changing Ima. Ima is changing herself. Her plan is to work on herself. To grow as an individual, a wife, and a mother. She is to avoid love busters and try to deposit love units (I know the terms are corny but using them in your everyday life works because instead of getting pissy when Ima says something mean or judgmental you call it a love buster - she immediately recognizes it for what it is and can then restate what she meant, apologize or repeat it BUT use of the term has a kind of cohesive "we're working as a team on this MB principle plan" that brings you two together at the same time).

Your "trying" right now doesn't mean you have to run around and fix everything. Right now, Ima should be attempting to plant love seeds in your heart. It will take time for those seeds to emerge and grow. Once they have taken root and you begin to believe and trust yourself the changes occuring right in front of you it will be much easier for you to begin to attempt to meet Ima's needs. The sooner you get to this point the better. Until then, you do what Dr. Harley tells you to do (which in my estimation means - No Contact, No Contact, No Contact, an effort to spend on average 25 hours a week alone with Ima without the kids, and plenty of patience. (Can Ima go on your next business trip? What about a nanny? an O'paer (sp?))

The only 2' x 4' I've got for you today. You stated how busy you guys are, but you sure had plenty of time for OW. Understand that if Ima said the above it would be a love buster. I can do it cause I'm not in a relationship with you and I presume you post here to obtain assistance while you venture through this process. Sometimes our 2x4's are misguided. We make mistakes too; but, our intent here is to speak the truth as we see it and according to MB principles as we interpret them. Sometimes the truth comes in the standard 8' long 2x4. Other times it comes in those flimsy metal 2x4 studs that don't hurt so bad unless they cut you. At the least, by us flogging either one of you here then maybe you will both be a little less inclined to say it to each other yourselves. You can then concentrate on MB.

Good Luck, Mr. Wondering

(didn't get enough sleep so kind of a choppy post, sorry)

Quick update for those who have been following this thread. We went to MC again on Saturday. Showed MC our His Needs/Her Needs book and told him our plans to shore up the relationship. In the past, he had us read another book, Love is Never Enough (can't remember the author's name). That book focusses on effective communication, which was an area we were very weak in. Soooo, I guess we're still hanging in there, trying to avoid any major LB's, and I'm continuing the Plan A stuff. I'm trying to make my new changes a lifetime habit, but I get a little depressed on the days I feel I fall short. I ask myself: Gees, you didn't clean up the house before bed time, or you weren't wearing your hair down and looking your best when WH came home, blah blah. I feel like WH is waiting in the wings to "catch me" being bad (i.e., not following Plan A goals 100% of the time). Last few days I've been kind of tired and run down, and haven't been putting my "ALL" into everything. I'm hoping it's just a slump and I'll get out of it.

Love is Never Enough, by Aaron Beck MD, is an excellent book. Sounds like your counselor will be very helpful.

For easy housecleaning tips, check out Flylady.com. Don't sign up for the email though or you will be getting email all day, telling you things to do.

While you are putting out all of this effort, what is your husband doing?

I'll let him answer that one... honey?

Toolman, "honey chile", where are ya? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Hi imanotherone, glad to see you posting again!!!

We miss both of you guys around here!!! We don't always have to be serious, ya know? You can always come here for a little comic relief from time to time or how bout' just a chat? Hope to hear from you both soon!

Mrs. "Dubya"

P.S. Got our DD5 the cutest UGA dress, hairbows and socks for school pics on Friday...GOOOOO...DAWGS! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Okay, in the spirit of good sportsmanship...go gators too!(sorry, you two, just couldn't put it in caps...tee hee! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />)

Hi all, just an update and a few questions...
Kinda feeling a little low today. Lots of triggers for me about the A. (Bookkeeper paying the visa, wants to know what this hote charge is..... WH has a trip to the town OW lives in today... WS acting kind of "giddy," the way he did two weeks ago when he was leaving to meet the OW... OW tried to call WH again two nights ago, but WH didn't tell me until I asked him specifically... ) Also, I kind of felt like I wasn't being treated respectfully by WH in front of bookkeeper and network admin guy. WH says I'm imagining things.

Also, when WH was making his plans for today's trip last night, he said he'd probably spend the night, since he has to drive to another town further away the next morning. I said why don't you go on to the next town tonight? No answer. Today, he comes into the living room and asks me if I think he should spend the night or come home and drive to the other town the next day. I take a deep breath to try to come up with a diplomatic way to say "I'm still concerned about your fidelity, since only 2 weeks ago, you were sleeping with OW." I didn't get a chance to say that, though. He says to himself, "I'm going to stay in ___ OW's town..it just makes more sense." (So much for POJA)

Then today, I finally tell him how concerned I am, and try to explain that I'm not comfortable, and it seems like I need more sensitivity in this area. His response, "Stop acting like this A was a big deal! It didn't mean anything to me. I just want to put it behind us!"

I know that's a classic, expected response. Still, it hurt like it was brand new. I'm not getting much positive reinforcement, and still getting LB's. I was kind of hoping that WH's love bank was building up, but it doesn't look that way. I know it hasn't been that long, but I was hoping for some scraps of reinforcement.

To add insult to injury, DD9 was in the clinic again today at school. This is the THIRD time this year. Each time, it's either a minor leg injury from soccer, or an upset tummy. Last year, she never was in the clinic, and had perfect attendance. Something is very wrong. This whole A thing is relatively new, so I don't think that's it. She's a straight-A student, but obviously isn't happy. Just what I need with WH out of town, and my spirits in the dumpster.

One other thing..regarding the 2 x4 from Mr. Wondering for WH on 9/8, H told me he needed to work all weekend for a client (forwarded me the email from the client). I said ok, and said I'll keep the kids at my mom's after the MC session so it's nice and quiet around the house. What did he do? Went surfing Sat. afternoon, then to a bar with is brother for a drink at 10pm. Sunday he also surfed in the am, and we had an outing on Sunday late afternoon. Seems like he had more free time than he thought.

WH is spending the night out of town, but swears it will be totally innocent. I hope the OW doesn't call him on the cell phone in the middle of the night, as she is prone to do.

Are you feeling ignored or what?

Tonight doesn't sound like fun for you. Why doesn't he have his lap top with him so you guys could read and post together?


So are you going to take surfing lessons? Where was recreational companionship on his EN list? Remember I said it was a LB for you to accuse him of the time thing. As long as he is in NC let it be for awhile but he should be curteous and respectfull of your time and plans. You BOTH have 2 or 3 kids to contend with.

Good luck, Mr. Wondering

Well, since you have some time, try to get the Dr. Laura Shlessingers book, "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands". It is a great book, and may really help you.

Hi Believer-
Yes, I've read several of Dr. Laura's books, and listen to her show from time to time. She does have some very good points.